The Borais IMO is Paizo's way of creating an "undead" PC while not having to reinvent the wheel to deal with Con. Am I happy with their solution... Not totally but I was more than happy to roll up a Borias (Android) Technomancer. My question to anyone who wants to answer is, what would be your solution to con?
/smirk. How do you like having to breath as an android now that you're an 'undead' one?
I don't see how the con thing is any different than the problem you'd have with a construct race, and they gave us SRO's. It's pretty clear the SRO's are in some ways OP because of this.
I actually think it'd be less of a problem with undead, though, assuming you give them other disadvantages (adding in some undead diseases/poisons and making them take damage from positive energy, or something).
Oh hey, thanks, that's really useful.
The Borais do sound a little... confusing. Ah well. Thanks again.
Yeah, what really got me was their possessing the undead type, but still needing to eat, sleep, and breathe. The book goes on to tell you that most live on Eox, or relocate there after their transformations.
How? How in Golarion do they survive on Eox? Isn't it a hostile airless rock?
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Borais aren't undead.
Borais *are* undead.
"Size and Type: Borais are Medium undead..."They are essentially a form of incorporeal undead.... linked inexorably to their own not-yet-dead body. Much as a rich is linked to a phylactery, or a ghost might be bound to a physical object. But in this case, the thing they are linked to is their own mortal flesh, and IT isn't quite dead yet.
Oh hey, thanks, that's really useful.
The Borais do sound a little... confusing. Ah well. Thanks again.
Yeah, what really got me was their possessing the undead type, but still needing to eat, sleep, and breathe. The book goes on to tell you that most live on Eox, or relocate there after their transformations.
How? How in Golarion do they survive on Eox? Isn't it a hostile airless rock?
Well, at least some Eoxian cities have facilities for breathers. I expect most of them would settle somewhere like Orphys, or somewhere inside the Lifeline.
Their needing to breathe is confusing. Sleep, okay I guess. Eat I could see, there are plenty of necro-types that at least need to do that.
Borais aren't undead.Borais *are* undead.
"Size and Type: Borais are Medium undead..."
They are essentially a form of incorporeal undead.... linked inexorably to their own not-yet-dead body. Much as a rich is linked to a phylactery, or a ghost might be bound to a physical object. But in this case, the thing they are linked to is their own mortal flesh, and IT isn't quite dead yet.
Oh, I see. That sounds interesting, actually.
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Borais aren't undead.Borais *are* undead.
"Size and Type: Borais are Medium undead..."
They are essentially a form of incorporeal undead.... linked inexorably to their own not-yet-dead body. Much as a rich is linked to a phylactery, or a ghost might be bound to a physical object. But in this case, the thing they are linked to is their own mortal flesh, and IT isn't quite dead yet.
Their body is merely pining for the fjords and getting prepared to lay down after having a good squawk.
Borais aren't undead.Borais *are* undead.
"Size and Type: Borais are Medium undead..."
They are essentially a form of incorporeal undead.... linked inexorably to their own not-yet-dead body. Much as a rich is linked to a phylactery, or a ghost might be bound to a physical object. But in this case, the thing they are linked to is their own mortal flesh, and IT isn't quite dead yet.
Interesting way of looking at it. That's totally not what was going through my mind when I read about them.
So, like a lich, if their phylactery and body are destroyed, then they too are destroyed? They don't go on to become a free incorporeal undead thing?
Oh hey, thanks, that's really useful.
The Borais do sound a little... confusing. Ah well. Thanks again.
Yeah, what really got me was their possessing the undead type, but still needing to eat, sleep, and breathe. The book goes on to tell you that most live on Eox, or relocate there after their transformations.
How? How in Golarion do they survive on Eox? Isn't it a hostile airless rock?
Well, at least some Eoxian cities have facilities for breathers. I expect most of them would settle somewhere like Orphys, or somewhere inside the Lifeline.
Their needing to breathe is confusing. Sleep, okay I guess. Eat I could see, there are plenty of necro-types that at least need to do that.
Think of it basically like this. Their bodies are in a coma and they are being sock puppeted by their now undead ghostly self. So the body still needs food/water like anybody in a coma would.
And yes it is an interesting question of what happens to the undead when their body finally dies or is destroyed. Do they become some other kind of incorporeal undead or do they lose their anchor and dissipate.
Borais *are* undead.
"Size and Type: Borais are Medium undead..."
They are essentially a form of incorporeal undead.... linked inexorably to their own not-yet-dead body. Much as a rich is linked to a phylactery, or a ghost might be bound to a physical object. But in this case, the thing they are linked to is their own mortal flesh, and IT isn't quite dead yet.
Thank you for the clarification, but I meant "aren't undead" in the sense that they "aren't like other undead" and not "don't have the undead type". I should have worded my comment better.
I think, story-wise, the idea of having a botched resurrection or something essentially binding a ghost back to their own living body is interesting. But in the process of creating that as a PC race, I feel they've lost much of the essential nature/flavor of the undead type, hence my comment. The eat/breath/sleep/age/et al takes away some of the je ne sais quoi of being undead, for me. It would have been better, to me, if they were going to have those kinds of limits, for it to be something like vampirism or ghoulism. Like, the body has to sleep, but the ghost leaves the body and is unable to interact with the physical world (or travel away from the body) while it does so. Or it does have to eat, but it must eat raw flesh.
That's just my 2cr. Personally, I'm still holding out for corpsefolk.
The botched-resurrection idea is, however, quite useful for me in the interim. I'll even be able to work it into my adventure. :P
Looking forward to getting the book.
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It's a really good book. There's a lot from Absalom Station, Castrovel, and Eox that's already in the AP, and some of the drift info as well. But the themes are awesome, I love most of the races, and there are archetypes in it I might actually use. It's my favorite book out, so far.
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Things I learned from running on Eox:
1. It's as much fun as a setting as you'd think.
2. Creative suggestions from this thread helped make it moreso, so thanks, everyone.
3. Holy crap, Mindbreaker Mystics are formidable. One of the group ran as one and high Resolve plus the Share Pain ability is a pretty sweet combination right there, never mind the damage she could dish out with Mind Thrust.
4. Holy crap, Marrowblights are formidable. I put my group up against one as part of the final encounter -- dialed him *back* from the version in the Dead Suns AP -- and wound up killing my first PC. (Kinda thankful it was a one-off!) That mofo managed to dish out 62 points of slashing damage to the party's tank in one of the latter combat rounds, killed them on the spot.
5. Investigation adventures are a lot of work, but it was worth it. Eox is suited to the noir crime thriller like few other planets.
I was concerned Pact Worlds would superannuate most of what I was doing, but it turns out not to be the case, so I think I'll post the adventure here for others to use if they'd like. Thanks again to everyone who helped me think through Eox on this thread.
I imagine that, normally, when a Borai dies, they do just that: die. They don't have some automatic survival, anymore than a ghoul automatically becomes a ghost.
That said, they are already part undead, so I imagine that its much more *common* for them to spontaneously go the rest of the way after death. Not automatic, but more common statistically, and easier to induce via extraordinary circumstances. After all, every Borai has an unusually high ambient level of negative energy around them when they die, because their own body generates it. I imagine those who *don't* want to rise as an abomination probably take great pains to ensure their swift and proper funeral.
Also given they still work more or less like their original race in a lot of ways in theory like androids you could still be able to become a vampire or things of that nature. I could see a compelling story in somebody who had this happen to them really questing out and studying necromancy to find a more permanent solution to their current state as a long term goal.
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I'll post the adventure we ran in about a week's time. In the meantime, here's a summary of the course we took through it (and some GM thoughts I've journalled).
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I need to go work on other stuff, but I started reading through the campaign doc. I really really love the intros, and I'm totally stealing Pookie and the flirty corpsefolk waitress (that's genius) if I can find a way to work them in.
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I'm running a party through the second half of Dead Suns #3 soon, so the discussion on Eox is very relevant now. I thought it apropos to cast "Raise Thread" to say thanks for all the great discussion, ideas and taking the time to write up things that are useful to other GMs, even a year and 7 months after the previous post.
The most popular showman in the Pact Worlds steps forward. "I have enjoyed this conversation as well. So much that I think we need a new show: Extreme Debates, pitting intelligent scholars in conversation, with death matches and musical interludes!"