Is Gravity Bow worth "it"?

[Belic]

When I first read the description on Gravity Bow, I thought it sounded great. I'm running a ranger, with Crossbow Mastery, wielding a heavy crossbow of speed. However, I'm not sure my initial assessment was accurate. So I thought I'd get the opinion of the masses....

Standard heavy crossbow damage is 1d10 (average damage of 5). With Gravity Bow, damage bumps up to 2d8 (average of d4+d4=8) although there is debate concerning 2 die verses 1 die would output (on average) slightly higher numbers....

The problem I'm trying to overcome is the fact that casting it (a standard action) means I lose my entire first round of combat. 15th level Ranger, rapid shot & "speed" nets me 5 attacks/rnd. Typical combat only last 2-3 rounds (too many players....) and the spell expires before our next combat starts. Even with a Wand of GB so I'm not burning my spell slots, that still a lot of damage I'm giving up just to get 3 extra damage (on average) times 5 shots.

Even taking "critical multipliers" (x3 with Bracers/Falcon) into consideration, is it worth burning my first round of combat to get this spell off? I can see if I have to move to get into range or line of sight, then move and cast, but if I don't have to re-position, is it worth the cost?

[Darksol the Painbringer]

You just cast it before you know combat will begin. You don't need to have it in every combat, just think of it as an auxiliary buff.

Also, Bracers of Falcon's Aim is nerfed to once per day for 1 minute, so it's not as good or useful as it once was.

[Belic]

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You just cast it before you know combat will begin. You don't need to have it in every combat, just think of it as an auxiliary buff.

Also, Bracers of Falcon's Aim is nerfed to once per day for 1 minute, so it's not as good or useful as it once was.

I wasn't aware of the "nerf", so thank you!!! :(

[Grandlounge]

To echo Darksol, the spell is not worth casing in combat but having it around for the times when you can pre-buff in fine. I tend to prefer stuff like that on wands. That goes for falcons aim as well.

And just a heads up average on a d10 is 5.5 and 2d8 is 9 so it's a touch better than you had calculated but still not worth it.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Belic wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

You just cast it before you know combat will begin. You don't need to have it in every combat, just think of it as an auxiliary buff.

Also, Bracers of Falcon's Aim is nerfed to once per day for 1 minute, so it's not as good or useful as it once was.

I wasn't aware of the "nerf", so thank you!!! :(

It sucks, I know, but the Lesser Bracers of Archery give about the same bonus for only 1,000 more gold, so look into a trade-in if you can.

[Scrapper]

When the party is setting up an ambush, that single standard action for surprise round would be the time to cast it.

[Grandlounge]

There is an ioun stone that gives that same bonus for 1000 less, it applies to any weapon and it keeps the slot free.

[Kupo The Kobold]

I remember this spell was a Godsend for my Wizard at lower levels.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I have a PFS Ranger with a Wand of Gravity Bow, and I think it is just lovely. You don't need it all the time, but it only takes 1 Round to use the wand and put it away, and then your arrows hit like telephone poles.

Even a level 1 Ranger can use a Wand of Gravity Bow, and in PFS, minor magic items like that can be purchased with Prestige Points instead of money. If my Ranger had to pay full price for one, It might not be so worthwhile.

[Gallant Armor]

If the combat was going to last 3 rounds or more you should take the action to cast it. 5 attacks would have an average damage of 27.5 and gravity bow adds 3.5 damage per attack.

Here's how it would look assuming a full attack each round. Miss frequency will be the same for both methods so that doesn't need to be factored in.

Round 1
Normal Damage total 27.5
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 0

Round 2 (running total)
Normal Damage total 55
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 45

Round 3 (running total)
Normal Damage total 82.5
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 90

Round 4 (running total)
Normal Damage total 110
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 135

If you would only get a single attack first round it would be worth it for combats that last 2 or more rounds.

Round 1
Normal Damage total 5.5
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 0

Round 2 (running total)
Normal Damage total 33
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 45

Round 3 (running total)
Normal Damage total 60.5
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 90

Round 4 (running total)
Normal Damage total 88
Damage if Gravity Bow is Cast: 135

[Claxon]

It's usually only worth it in long combats or when you can cast it before combat.

Generally speaking, if you need to cast it in combat it's not worth it.

It add (typically) 2.5 pts of damage per arrow fired.

However, at higher levels a full attack can be 100+ damage on it's own. Gravity bow has to overcome the wasted damage potential of a full attack.

@Gallant Armor, gravity bow will general deal 2d6 damage (7 pts on average) vs 1d8 (4.5 avg). So it's only a 2.5 damage increase per arrow.

[Grandlounge]

Those number are a pretty severe miss representation of real damage. 5.5 for a single attack is only true if you don't use PBS, deadly aim, weapons enhancement, gloves of delinquency, no class features that add to damage, and no strength.

Run the numbers on an actual build and you lose way more damage skipping the first full attack by missing out on all the static modifiers, but the gain from gravity bow is the same. This pushes you to a minimum of 4 rounds to become equal.

The other problem with this thought process is it mean you are behind for 2 or 3 rounds. This likely means the enemy lives for an extra round if this is the case you are not only giving up damage for 3 rounds but also giving the enemy an extra action to possibly sway the battle in their favor. Pathfinder is a game of action economy.

It's still fine in a surprise round if you don't have another spell to cast. Bloodscent (orc) + pheromone arrow, enemy insight, are also good options

[Gallant Armor]

Claxon wrote:

It's usually only worth it in long combats or when you can cast it before combat.

Generally speaking, if you need to cast it in combat it's not worth it.

It add (typically) 2.5 pts of damage per arrow fired.

However, at higher levels a full attack can be 100+ damage on it's own. Gravity bow has to overcome the wasted damage potential of a full attack.

@Gallant Armor, gravity bow will general deal 2d6 damage (7 pts on average) vs 1d8 (4.5 avg). So it's only a 2.5 damage increase per arrow.

I calculated for a heavy crossbow, not a longbow as OP said they were using a heavy crossbow.

[Gallant Armor]

Grandlounge wrote:

Those number are a pretty severe miss representation of real damage. 5.5 for a single attack is only true if you don't use PBS, deadly aim, weapons enhancement, gloves of delinquency, no class features that add to damage, and no strength.

Run the numbers on an actual build and you lose way more damage skipping the first full attack by missing out on all the static modifiers, but the gain from gravity bow is the same. This pushes you to a minimum of 4 rounds to become equal.

The other problem with this thought process is it mean you are behind for 2 or 3 rounds. This likely means the enemy lives for an extra round if this is the case you are not only giving up damage for 3 rounds but also giving the enemy an extra action to possibly sway the battle in their favor. Pathfinder is a game of action economy.

It's still fine in a surprise round if you don't have another spell to cast. Bloodscent (orc) + pheromone arrow, enemy insight, are also good options

Fair point, although can you get strength to damage with a crossbow?

It would still likely be worth the trade for a single attack given a 2 to 3 round combat.

[Belic]

I’d like to thank everyone for your input. Your comments echo what i was thinking. It’s not worth (typically) giving up my entire first round, just to buff my x-bow, but if given the chance to prepare prior to the battle starting, then it’s a no brained...