Fusion Seals and SFS


Starfinder Society

Liberty's Edge 3/5

So the issue causing a tonne of confusion that I need assistance with is Fusion Seals.

RAW says (spoilers used to make post neater)

Spoiler:
A fusion seal affects only weapons of a given level or less, as
noted in parentheses after the name of the fusion seal. For
example, a holy fusion seal that could be applied to any weapon
of 10th level or lower would be written holy fusion seal (10th).

so I can if I have the dosh at level 3 or 4 buy a level 10 Seal except in the SFS guide

Spoiler:
ALWAYS AVAILABLE ITEMS
You may always purchase the following items or equipment as long
as you’re in an appropriate settlement (see above).
• All equipment listed in the Starfinder Core Rulebook with an
item level equal to your character level + 1.
• All equipment listed in sanctioned Starfinder content with an
item level equal to your character.
• Any equipment listed on your character’s Chronicle sheets
with an item level equal to your character level + 2.
• All items and services purchased with Fame.

So in SFS I can not able to buy a level 10 at PC Level 4 I can only buy Seal (4) or Seal (5) at best. The arguement that my friend is having is that this makes the purpose of buying seals for 110% of the Fusion price unlikely to be worth it (why pay more if I cannot benifit from it as in a level or 2 I will just completly change my weapon)

I guess I am asking What am I missing and is there an explanation of Fusion Seals in SFS terms as the SFS seems to counter or break the purpose of Seals?

2/5 5/5 **

Opinion only, but I would say that what you're "missing" is that you (or your friend) are inserting you own idea of how they should work.

They economics of it in SFS is that you buy a fusion seal at a given level and then sell it back if you no longer have a use for it.

Honestly, though, you're likely to have a handful of different item level weapons, so the advantage of a seal is that you can move it onto a different weapon, say your backup kinetic melee weapon, when you upgrade your, say, primary kinetic ranged weapon to one with a higher item level.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

bump! Official help would be appreciated, GM Blake does provide some good advise but comeon Paizo people! Thirsty you out there?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Starfinder Society Developer

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Meadow lark wrote:
bump! Official help would be appreciated, GM Blake does provide some good advise but comeon Paizo people! Thirsty you out there?

I am (when am I not?) It's also a weekend following a busy work week.

I can see the concern about this, but with things like Chronicle sheets bumping this up and generally how weapons scale, it's not something I want to shoot an off-the-cuff answer for. I've added it to my "list of concerns," but I wouldn't expect any movement in the immediate future. Probably something we might look at in the next iteration of the Roleplaying Guild Guide.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

thanks heaps Thursty \I will let my friend know, as long as we have not gone mad (the conversation was intense as we all read it then back tracked and then came up with a new approach lol)

2/5

On a similar note. Transferring a fusion (not a seal) can be done for half the price of the new levels seal.

If you wanted to put a level 1 seal on a level 8 weapon. RAW it is cheaper to buy a level 1 and fusion (120 credits + a weapon you probably have already) and transfer it to a level 8 weapon (half of 2300) and keep the backup weapon fused.

Surely this is an unintended mechanic and ripe for abuse.

3/5

If you transfer the fusion to the level 8 weapon, how is the level 1 still fused?

Leum_ wrote:

On a similar note. Transferring a fusion (not a seal) can be done for half the price of the new levels seal.

If you wanted to put a level 1 seal on a level 8 weapon. RAW it is cheaper to buy a level 1 and fusion (120 credits + a weapon you probably have already) and transfer it to a level 8 weapon (half of 2300) and keep the backup weapon fused.

Surely this is an unintended mechanic and ripe for abuse.

5/5 5/55/55/5

It seems kind of odd that fusion seals (which are supposed to be portable) are functionally not transferable as you level up but permanent enchants are so transferable you can SAVE money putting it on a gun and then moving the enchant.

2/5 5/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The advantage of seals:

I have a laser sword, a cryogun, and a sniper rifle.

I have a bane seal.

I can put the seal on whichever weapon I need for a given encounter.

The advantage of fusions:

I have a level 2 laser with the called fusion,

I upgrade my laser to a level 6 version.

I don't have to waste the fusion, I can move it to the new version.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

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Blake's Tiger wrote:

The advantage of seals:

I can put the seal on whichever weapon I need for a given encounter.

Fusion Seals don’t function until they have been in place for 24 hours.

2/5 5/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Kevin Willis wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:

The advantage of seals:

I can put the seal on whichever weapon I need for a given encounter.

Fusion Seals don’t function until they have been in place for 24 hours.

Missed that. If that's the case, they have no function, at least in society play. Skip 'em.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Blake's Tiger wrote:

Missed that. If that's the case, they have no function, at least in society play. Skip 'em.

For even more fun, transfering an infusion can be done in 10 minutes by anyone with 1 rank in mysticism. So a cheap gun with a level 1 enchant on it makes a better seal than a seal because

1)can go on any weapon with 10 minutes notice
2) is really the only way to enchant anything, since it actually saves you money
3) can scale up infinitely, whereas the seal has an item limit.

Its wonky enough that I have to wonder if its an unintended exploit.

2/5 5/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The transference does cost money, so you're not going to be flipping it around even though it's faster.

3/5 5/5 *

BigNorseWolf wrote:

For even more fun, transfering an infusion can be done in 10 minutes by anyone with 1 rank in mysticism. So a cheap gun with a level 1 enchant on it makes a better seal than a seal because

1)can go on any weapon with 10 minutes notice
2) is really the only way to enchant anything, since it actually saves you money
3) can scale up infinitely, whereas the seal has an item limit.

Its wonky enough that I have to wonder if its an unintended exploit.

Item Level (CRB page 192) wrote:
The price of a weapon fusion depends on the item level of the weapon into which it’s being installed.

I think the RAI is that transferring the fusion counts as installing it on the weapon, so if the fusion wouldn't be high enough level when originally installed, it won't work when transferred.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

Yeah, I’m fairly certain it’s unintentional. I suspect that some text got left out or cut and the intention was either:
A) you can’t move a fusion to a weapon with a higher item level than the one it came from - or -
B) you would have to apply “step-up” costs more frequently. (No going straight from item level 1 to item level 10. Gotta pay (half) for each level in between.)

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

A better solution might be that you have to pay the difference between the cost for a fusion of the level of the new item and the cost for a fusion of the level of the old item (or half the cost for a fusion of the level of the new item, whichever is more).

3/5

I think paying half the cost of the difference is the rule. That is also the exploit that you can buy a level 1 fusion, then upgrade it at half the cost of originally installing it on the higher level weapon.

For Kevin Willis, I haven't done the math but I think paying half the cost of each intervening level would still be half the cost of the "jump" difference.

Iammars wrote:
A better solution might be that you have to pay the difference between the cost for a fusion of the level of the new item and the cost for a fusion of the level of the old item (or half the cost for a fusion of the level of the new item, whichever is more).

The Exchange 1/5 5/55/55/55/5

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Blake's Tiger wrote:
Missed that. If that's the case, they have no function, at least in society play. Skip 'em.

This is primarily a space based game. Any mission where you start on Absalom Station and travel anywhere else has at least a day down time built in, it's not as much of a killer as you'd think. So far you would only not be able to transfer a fusion seal in 2 of 8 released regular scenerios (Not counting the pregen special)

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Yeah but at first sight they looked like something you'd transfer to the weapon you need for that encounter. But you pretty much never know what you'll face ahead of time.

4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

They work for scenario writers provided they allow the 24 hours between finding them and the encounter that would benefit from them.

When they don’t do that, it will be like older scenarios that give you the equipment you needed after you have delt with the danger.

The 24 hour wait really gets in the way of utilizing them.

5/5 5/55/55/5

So if you wanted to apply enchants from enemy weapons with the cost, what do you do? Hand the universe a credstick? Carry around crystals and bird feathers? UPBs?

5/5 5/55/55/5

one argument for the cheap gun to expensive gun enchant not being an exploit is that it only works with low level enchants, making low level enchants cheaper than higher level ones , which probably should be a thing.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
So if you wanted to apply enchants from enemy weapons with the cost, what do you do? Hand the universe a credstick? Carry around crystals and bird feathers? UPBs?

UPBs. See page 233 of the Core Rulebook.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
one argument for the cheap gun to expensive gun enchant not being an exploit is that it only works with low level enchants, making low level enchants cheaper than higher level ones , which probably should be a thing.

No, it works with high-level fusions too. It requires high-level weapons, but it works.

A powered battleglove (Item Level 10) with a vorpal fusion costs 19,680. Move the fusion to any weapon 17th level or higher - say a molecular rift longsword - and even if you throw away the battleglove it is cheaper than buying a new vorpal fusion for the weapon (normally 40,500 for Weapon Item Level 17).

2/5 5/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

It seems like seals should have been: slap them on a new weapon and it takes 1 minute to attune.

And fusions should have been: it takes 24 hours and ranks in Mysticism to transfer from old weapon to a new weapon plus some price tag.

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