player wants to remote hack shuttle and fly it

[lock wood]

player wants to remote hack shuttle and fly it
the player want to do this i said no that it need some one at the controls he said auto pilot there is know auto pilot in the book and even then it would not work like that as auto pilot is like cruse control.

dose this seem right or are there rules i'm missing

[Iceman1077]

lock wood wrote:

player wants to remote hack shuttle and fly it

the player want to do this i said no that it need some one at the controls he said auto pilot there is know auto pilot in the book and even then it would not work like that as auto pilot is like cruse control.

dose this seem right or are there rules i'm missing

The only thing I see that specifically allows remote piloting a ship is this mechanic ability on pg 71 of the Core Rulebook

Quote:

SUPERIOR RIG (EX) 19th Level

Your custom rig’s computer functions now gain bonus lockout and wipe countermeasures. You can use your custom rig normally even when its lockout is active (you have special authorization no one else can access under any circumstances), and while any wiped data cannot be recovered by anyone else (as if the data module were destroyed), you can automatically recover it with 8 hours of work. These countermeasures have no additional cost and do not count against the maximum number of countermeasures your custom rig can have. Additionally, you can use your custom rig to communicate over an encrypted channel with your ship at a range encompassing a planet and its close orbit, allowing you to remotely pilot your starship from point to point on the same planet or to and from orbit (as well as use the encrypted communications functions of your expert and advanced rig at the same range). If you have a drone, you can
ssue commands to or directly control your drone over an encrypted channel at the same range.

Since this is a 19th level ability, I would probably say that if the character has this ability, and has completely taken over another ships computer system (including disabling all countermeasures), I would allow them to remote pilot that ship. But the signal would not be encrypted and could be easily disrupted or counter hacked, and possibly traced.

[lock wood]

ok thank you

[Hazrond]

Iceman1077 wrote:

Since this is a 19th level ability, I would probably say that if the character has this ability, and has completely taken over another ships computer system (including disabling all countermeasures), I would allow them to remote pilot that ship. But the signal would not be encrypted and could be easily disrupted or counter hacked, and possibly traced.

Firstly that is intended for your ship as the wording implies, I'd probably rule you'd have to spend time installing a Control Module for the starship you are attempting to RC (which would take some coding time). Also a major point of that part of the Custom Rig is that you have a very well encrypted connection, so I wouldn't randomly take that away for no reason (unless they had access to this hypothetical ship's computer to take advantage of it's end of the encryption).

[lock wood]

the point is a level 3 pc should not able to do this

[Iceman1077]

Definitely not.

["Dr." Cupi]

At the earliest level 7 mechanic which has a range of 5 miles. But applying that to space would be questionable.

If time is of no consequence one could argue an AI upgrade to the ship's computer, but that'd require another upgrade of skill use I'm pretty sure. All in all it would require much time and money. (This is assuming that you have root access to the computer system.)

[Ravingdork]

This can be done, but would require a heavily modified ship. The character would also have to hack the ships computer and security defenses, which would be almost impossible most of the time.

[Necrodemus]

I'd say it depends on the situation. Remote controlling another ship during a space combat encounter? No.
Remote controlling a small shuttle on a planet to use as a getaway? Sure.
It's almost a stsndard trope of sci fi movies to hack and remotely pilot a small shuttle to get the heroes out of a tight spot. And I'd just run that as a skill challenge.
The hacker accesses the BBEG's systems, to hijack a shuttle and bring it to 206th floor. All the while the rest of the party are having a shootout with the generic BBEG storm troopers. Can he do it before they are overrun? Can they blow out the window and jump to the shuttle and escspe with the secret plans? Sounds like a cool encounter, and I'd allow it.

[Ravingdork]

At the very least, the ship would need to have a complex control module installed, and the PC would need to hack said ship's computer system somehow.

[Matt2VK]

I'd probably let them try something like this. On a heavily modified ship that's been designed for this.

Biggest problems with something like what they want to do is the taking off and landing parts. Once up in the air (or space) it's easy to point something in a direction and go 'that away'.

I have no idea what kind of checks would have to be made for this.
DC (or item level) for the gear to do this.
DC for installing the gear onto the "ship"
DC for the 'remote' flying and which skills it would require.

[Helot_Commander]

Matt2VK wrote:

I'd probably let them try something like this. On a heavily modified ship that's been designed for this.

Biggest problems with something like what they want to do is the taking off and landing parts. Once up in the air (or space) it's easy to point something in a direction and go 'that away'.

I have no idea what kind of checks would have to be made for this.
DC (or item level) for the gear to do this.
DC for installing the gear onto the "ship"
DC for the 'remote' flying and which skills it would require.

This is a 19th level mechanic skill. It shouldn't be easily duplicated, IE. near impossible.

DC (or item level) for the gear to do this.

CRB Pg. 215 wrote:

Control, complex - 10% of controlled device

Given that there are no costs given to starships, I'd assign a base price of 100,000 per BP of the frame. If not higher. You could also assign the price solely to the cost of the computer, and have a basic computer for a starship go for 10-20,000. That'd put it at Tier 5/6.

DC for installing the gear onto the "ship"
Closest I could find would be either:

CRB Pg. 138 wrote:

Destroy or Repair System or Module

You can use Computers to repair a computer system or module that has been disabled, or destroy one that has been either removed or disabled by spending 10 minutes per tier of the computer system working on the computer. The DC is based on the tier of the computer system. If you are repairing a disabled module or system and you fail the check by 5 or more, you accidentally destroy the module or system. You can’t take 20 on a Computers check to destroy or repair a computer system. Computer DC = 13 + (4 x Tier).

or:

CRB Pg. 142 wrote:

Disable Device: Complex device - Disarm an explosive or a security system from a control panel or similar device - 2d4 rounds - DC 25

Repair Item: Complex - Computer console - 30 minutes - DC 20

You could argue that installing a module may be easy, or hard, depending on whether the ship is designed for it.

DC for the 'remote' flying and which skills it would require.
Work out the DC's for a 19th level character to perform this, and then use those.

Skill DCs - CRB Pg. 392 wrote:

A challenging DC for a skill check is equal to 15 + 1-1/2 × the CR of the encounter or the PCs’ Average Party Level (APL)

That suggests it should be a DC of 43, minimum, to perform this function.

Again. This is a class feature, given to mechanics, at level 19. Their 13th level custom rig only lets them "Prepare engines for takeoff". By giving a player, even a mechanic, access to the equivalent of a 19th level skill, you should be prepared for wacky hijinks.

[lock wood]

thank you for all your in put the player want to use the shuttle in combat by remote hacking it and slamming it in to the orcs :{

[lock wood]

after looking over his sheet, i can fully say that he could not do this with the computers he had.
he is also a technomancer he trying to use a computer that was built for scanning for life forms with in 100 ft and give him sniping targets.

he also clams to have a AI built in but i see know were this is pay for/even marked on his sheet.

if he shows back up i will work this out thank you again for all you in put

[khadgar567]

just to be sure i send faq request so one of the writes can solidify the answer

[Ridiculon]

If the player is a mechanic i don't see why a properly modded drone couldn't fly a starship. As long as you stay within the drone's control range (which is a pretty tight tether for a starship).

With a camera and manipulator arms (so definitely possible at level 3) you could control the drone to fly the ship.

[Helot_Commander]

Ridiculon wrote:

If the player is a mechanic i don't see why a properly modded drone couldn't fly a starship. As long as you stay within the drone's control range (which is a pretty tight tether for a starship).

With a camera and manipulator arms (so definitely possible at level 3) you could control the drone to fly the ship.

Now *that* would be viable, even within the rules. And it is completely different than 'remotely hacking' a shuttle, or 'remote controlling' a shuttle.

You'd need to have both the manipulator arm, and the camera mods, to really sell me on the idea that you can control this drone well enough to fly, and you'd be taking some massive penalties to your checks, but... no reason why it wouldn't be allowed.

[baggageboy]

I believe there's a thread where the developers have said that drones can't be starship crew. Not that that really makes sense, but it would tend to indicate that this is not possible.

[Ridiculon]

Ah, link? Looking through the class only says that drones can use all the Mechanic's skill bonuses on checks when the Mechanic is controlling them directly.

BTW Helot_Commander there is no mention of negatives for using skill checks through your drone, as long as it is physically capable of performing the action you want it to do there is no difference between you being there and the drone being there.

EDIT: I also haven't gotten to the starship section of the CRB yet, i only got my copy a few days ago and have been reading through the classes first

[baggageboy]

I'm sorry I went looking for it and I can't find it anywhere. My search skills are not the best.

There is some discussion about whether or not a drone could be a crew member in the rules forum. I'm not particularly against it, but allowing a drone to be a crew member allows a drone mechanic to effectively play twice as much during space combat as any other PC, so I would expect it's not intended.

[Ridiculon]

Well its not like the mechanic could actually do two jobs at once, the only way for the drone to get the mechanic's skill bonuses is if the PC directly controls the drone, which means they wouldn't be able to do a different job at the same time.

At best i'd say that it acts more like a remote control than a fully functioning person. A mechanic could pilot the ship from the engineering station in the engine room if the drone was on the bridge, but then they wouldn't be doing engineering things. This is a pretty large advantage over most other classes but its not quite as good as just having two people.

EDIT: Aha! found a thread where they are talking about Drones in starship combat. I also went and skimmed through the starship rules section.

So the main rule you are contending with in this case is the Role system. When you board a starship you have to declare one of the 4 Roles or be counted as a passenger. The only way to perform Role actions in combat is to actually occupy that Role. Fortunately you can change your Role every round, so as long as the Mechanic declares his Role properly every round and the drone has the proper mods installed there doesn't seem to be any reason they couldn't use the drone to perform Role actions.

EDIT 2: Actually looking more into the Role system there is some ambiguity about occupying 2 Roles at the same time, i'm going to start another thread to ask for some clarification.

[Losobal]

Thematically I get where he's coming from. But I feel RAW and RAI would say no, especially for a lowbie char.

Possibilities? Infiltrate the shuttle, hack the computer to later trigger a 'fly into location' subroutine when you give that shuttle a com-call? Maybe. On fly takeover a ship from range and make it crash into an immediate chosen target? Nah.

I mean consider, if it was THAT easy to do, anyone that's both evil and practical minded would do so regularly, and no one would buy the damn things because they're so easily subverted.

"So, yeah, we want you to pay hundreds of thousands of credits to get this neat shuttle." "Oh and a 12 year old with a 3 generation outdated palm pilot can take it over and suicide run you into things."