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I've been spending a lot of time thinking about Conjure Carriage, and have come to the realization it may be an underrated spell. Accordingly, I'd like to talk about some things it can be used for and what kind of obstacles it faces.
I acknowledge that some of these points are recycled from discussions on other message boards and communities, while others are new ideas. I wanted to add some new uses for it, while also gathering other ideas in one place.
So, what do you get out of this Level 3 arcane spell? Some uses are obvious, but others are more clever.
Brain Teaser: It has a range of Close, not 'adjacent to caster.' Nothing stops you from making it appear in absolutely baffling places, such as a nearby rooftop (provided the roof can bear the weight, of course!). If you want a distraction, "How in the hell did someone manage to get a horse and carriage up there?!" will probably do it! Heck, put one in thick jungle trees where it makes even less sense.
Drop It on Stuff: Half of 6d6 bludgeoning non-magical damage (DC 15 Reflex Half) isn't all that great for a level 3 spell, but it IS an option. It even ignores SR. If you have absolutely nothing else that will get through, this is something you can do. Note that it does half damage (on top of the possible Reflex half) because it is wooden, and the normal 6d6 damage for dropping a Large object on someone presumes the object is stone or metal instead of wood.
Make Stuff Collapse: Dropping two horses and a carriage on top of something that can't bear that extra weight will make it fall in one heck of a hurry. Drop it on huts, smaller trees, shacks, and so on.
Ambulance: Got disabled allies? Need a way to move them without making another party member carry them? Put them in here instead.
Loot Storage: Need to drag a lot of stuff around (Loot, or passing out weapons to a peasant rebellion or so on)? This will do.
Travel While Resting: If you don't have Teleport yet and need to cover as much ground as possible, this can keep moving while some of the occupants rest inside. It might not be the safest option, but it is there.
Bunker: Requires cutting horses free (have an ally handy to do this), but suddenly you have a bunker for up to four creatures to make ranged attacks/spells out of. This invites AOE in return, but not every fight is going to have opposing AOE. You'll get Cover versus most attacks this way, too.
Line of Sight Blocker: Specify that the carriage has curtains for the windows. Pull them shut. Anyone inside has now blocked LOS. This of course works both ways, and there are methods to do damage into the carriage anyway (most AOE).
Instant High Ground: Put your archer on the driving deck (or, if the archer is light enough, the roof can hold up to 200 pounds). Again, cut the horses away before doing this.
Quasi-Wall: This also needs the horses to be cut free immediately, but you can block a lot of movement if you put this in a hallway or other good spot. Just note that it's not a true wall, so people can sneak Fireballs and such underneath it and hit the other side. At 90 HP and Hardness 5, it will withstand a few hits if used as a wall-like object.
Bonus to Reflex vs. AOE: If you know you're going to be getting hit by a Lightning Bolt or similar effect no matter what, hanging out next to the carriage will give you a +2 to Reflex in many cases.
Look Important: Presuming your party (or at least one person in it) can look like a Very Important Person, having this sweet carriage can help lend credibility to the story. This can be useful in some cities.
Decoy: Since it looks important, you can send it through a battlefield and there's a decent chance someone will go after it.
Protection from the Weather: It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing.
Tow Truck: Unhitch the horses, re-hitch them to something stuck in a ditch or similar bad terrain, have them pull it out.
Detachable Horses: Nothing stops you from detaching the horses from the carriage and letting others ride the horses while the carriage itself stays put.
Make Some Money: Need a little bit of cash? Congratulations, you now have your very own taxi service. Sure, this is only useful to get tiny amounts of money... but if you're in a case where you have no money whatsoever, this would be an option to fix that.
Downhill Crowd-Scattering: Put this on top of an incline. Cut the horses free. Shove it real hard. Watch whatever's below scramble to get out of the way!
Despite these fun uses, it has some drawbacks.
Terrain Reliant: Only works in terrain where a wheeled carriage and horses can reliably move through. ...Unless it being immobile isn't a problem for you.
Horses can get spooked: If your planned use requires the carriage stay still, you absolutely need to have an ally handy who can immediately cut the reins so the horses can't move the carriage anymore. Otherwise, the moment something alarms them (which will be "nearly anything" on a battlefield!) they will bolt.
Poor Driving Skill if Unmanned: The included driver fails at pretty much any stressful skill check for driving the carriage. You'll need a better driver at the reins if you expect danger to come up.
Can anyone think of other fun uses, or noteworthy problems, for Conjure Carriage? If so, please speak up!
I'm not sure how you are expecting to drop it on things.
Carriages aren't just hooked to the horses by reins, the reins just direct the horses. The horses are in harness and attached to the carriage tugs, usually solid wood, so it isn't simple to just cut the horses lose.
I'd also question whether you can really separate the parts of the spell and use them individually, although I don't think any of the uses for them you list are particularly powerful, so I would probably allow it.
It's quite easy to drop it on things; it has a Close range. There's nothing stopping you from creating it in the air above the target and letting gravity take over as far as I can tell.
Am I missing something?
EDIT: As for the harness thing, you may be right. Adamantine weapons would help in that case!
It's quite easy to drop it on things; it has a Close range. There's nothing stopping you from creating it in the air above the target and letting gravity take over as far as I can tell.
Some GMs (and I include myself in 'some') apply the same restrictions that summoning has about where things may be summoned to conjuration as well.
The limitation is for all conjuration spells, not just the summoning subschool
"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
...Whoops, I thought that was Summoning-specific. Okay, glad we went over that! I suppose 'supporting it' would require that it be able to bear the object's weight at least momentarily, ruling out the wrecking-ball uses of this spell?
The rest of these seem to check out though, albeit with the proviso that an adamantine weapon would need to be handy for cutting the horses loose quickly.
I'm kind of embarrassed I made a mistake like that, I honestly thought the limitation was just on [Summoning] tag spells. Ah well. Still a very versatile pick.
Summon giant.
Give giant conjured carriage and horses as an improvised flail.
Bibbity-bobbity-boo.
The limitation is for all conjuration spells, not just the summoning subschool
"A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Hmm. Hope you never get stuck on a plane with no surfaces.
Like most summoning spells it has a 1 round casting time, making reactive uses (cover, blocking sight lines, etc) riskier.
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Illusion detector Must be summoned onto a surface that can take its weight. Illusory floors cant. I wonder if one would lose the spell if one tried to summon this onto an illusionary bridge or atop a weak floor/roof?
One annoying issue with Conjure Carriage (also affecting similar spells, like Phantom Chariot) is that the overland movement rate of land and air vehicles is never established anywhere. The overland movement rate is provided for sea vehicles, and based on those numbers there doesn't appear to be any consistent formula. This is somewhat annoying, and makes the spell subject to table variation based on how the GM interprets it.
Dasrak:Table variation for something this unusual is perhaps the unfortunate nature of the beast.
Poor Wandering One, that's a clever use of it; you probably would lose the casting though since 'the spell fails' or similar language is used. This would however give you a 50-50 guess of knowing that it's either an illusion, or that it cannot support 2600-3000 pounds (each horse is 1000 pounds or so, and the carriage is 600-1000 based on real world figures).
I was also thinking on one way to use the 'drop it on a building' thing... if you had a conjured wall above the target that could support the carriage + horses, then dismiss the wall (in some cases this requires a metamagic feat, I believe), this would probably work. EDIT: That said, I concede this is an awful lot of resources to put into a very odd trick.
Paradozen, that is a pretty serious drawback. The idea still works with some planning or good grasp of the tactical situation, but it is harder with that in mind; definitely worth reminding everyone about.
Dasrak:Table variation for something this unusual is perhaps the unfortunate nature of the beast.
For a more unconventional use of the spell, sure, but overland travel is the obvious application of the spell, so having uncertainty in how that is supposed to work is something of a greater problem.
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It's not exactly RAW, but close enough to make sense, so...
You more-or-less use the speed of the horses.
First, they have the stats of light horses, so 16 strength, large, quadruped. So for starters, a light load is up to 228 lbs, medium is up to 459 lbs, a heavy load up to 690 lbs.
Now:
Lifting and Dragging: [...]
A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load. Favorable conditions can double these numbers, and bad circumstances can reduce them by half or more.
Now, this only talks about maximum load, but it seems reasonable to multiply all loads (including light and medium) assuming you use proper tools to pull the load.
Also, the carriage has wheels, which should make the conditions "favorable" on most roads (to varying degrees, depending on the state of the road).This leads to carrying capacities of a light load of 1140 to 2280 lbs, medium load of 2295 to 4590 lbs, and heavy load of 3450 to 6900 lbs, depending on road conditions.
Then, taking into account that you have two horses, it's reasonable that the capacity should be multiplied again by two, so it's now 2280 to 4560 for a light load, 4590 to 9180 for a medium load, and 6900 to 13800 for a heavy load.
Now, because I'm to lazy to do my own research:
[...] the carriage is 600-1000 based on real world figures [...]
Let's subtract that (the horses pull the weight of the carriage itself too, after all), and use the higher number because we're erring on the side of caution and subtracting 1000 is easier than subtracting 600. We now have:
1280 to 3560 for a light load,3590 to 8180 for a medium load, and
5900 to 12800 for a heavy load.
Now, horses have a speed of 50 ft, or an reduced speed (when carrying a medium or heavy load) of 35 ft.
The table for "Movement and Distance" gives us some distances per hour based on speed - 20 ft: 2 miles/hour, 30 feet: 3 miles/hour, 40 feet: 4 miles/hour.
Based on that, a carriage carrying up to 1280 to 3560 lbs (depending on the state of the road) would travel 5 miles per hour, and a carriage carrying up to 5900 to 12800 lbs (again, depending on the state of the road) would travel 3.5 miles per hour.
If it weights more than that, it doesn't move at all.
You can double these speeds for one hour if you hustle.
This makes some assumptions that are never spelled out:
- Pulling multiplies all capacities, not just maximum capacity,
- If two creatures pull, their pulling capacity gets added,
- The carriage actually weights 1000 lbs,
- Extrapolating overland distance for not listed movement speeds.
These all seem reasonable to me, but it probably needs to be discussed with the GM beforehand.
"and have come to the realization it may be an underrated spell."
It's not, it's a utility quality of life spell that does it's job.
No DM is going to go "that's overpowered" anymore than they are going to go that's overpowered that you cast Tiny Hut and got a good nights sleep.
It does it's job when it gets the party from A to B.
I think your undervaluing a 5th level adventurers value when you have him working as a taxi driver or tractor service.
NoTongue: There will probably be times where you find something stuck and want to get it unstuck. This would be a way to do it. Also, the 'taxi service' thing is an extreme corner case and was noted as such.
Do you have any creative uses to add, by chance? You sound familiar with it.
Half the uses you propose could be handled by by mount or Silent image.
Additionaly, you and your party or trotting down the road, drinking having a good old time.
You come to the washed out bridge. Bare beams crossing the river. The driver automatically fails the drive check plunging you all to a horrible death....
Sometimes you don't have Mount or Silent Image. This was about exploring multiple creative uses of one spell. I also find 'not even token efforts to pay attention while traveling' to be a bizarre argument against something.
That said, message received; the discussion appears unwelcome, I'll bow out of the topic and let it die.
So there's this
The only vehicle on that list is the cart/wagon, which is different from a carriage. I had forgotten that the cart did have an overland move speed provided, but that still leaves the vast majority of vehicles undefined.
The only vehicle on that list is the cart/wagon, which is different from a carriage. I had forgotten that the cart did have an overland move speed provided, but that still leaves the vast majority of vehicles undefined.True.....I'd go by a loaded horse speed myself, a carriage would go 3.5 miles per hour/ 28 per day. Slightly slower than a man on horse, but faster than the cart, which is generally a draft horse or ox pulling.
I actually calculated an (estimate for the) carrying capacity of the carriage's horses above. 1280 to 3560 lbs for a light load (full light horse speed) or, 3590 to 12800 lbs for a medium to heavy load (reduced speed). The cart is already factored in.
The important thing is that the horses aren't carrying the carriage, they're pulling it, and it has wheels, making conditions at least slightly favorable on all but the worst roads.