Does the Green Scourge lose the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally?

[Pounce]

Question as in title, link to the Green Scourge.

The reason I'm wondering is because the archetype states that their "Nature's Armanents" ability only alters spontaneous casting, rather than replaces it, so since there's no mention of losing this ability... I'm sure you catch my drift.

[cavernshark]

Pounce wrote:

Question as in title, link to the Green Scourge.

The reason I'm wondering is because the archetype states that their "Nature's Armanents" ability only alters spontaneous casting, rather than replaces it, so since there's no mention of losing this ability... I'm sure you catch my drift.

It alters it in the sense that it still works in all other ways like the Spontaneous Casting, but with the changes outlined (namely casting flame blade or shillelagh). You do not get to Summon Nature's Ally too.

[James Risner]

Quote:

Spontaneous Casting: A druid can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that she hasn't prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast

That is the part kept from the original. The new part is in the new ability.

[Ventnor]

I dunno. The ability doesn't actually explicitly say that it replaces the ability to spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally spells, only that you also gain the ability to spontaneously cast Shillelagh and Flame Blade spells. Spontaneous casting is altered, not replaced.

So, I'd say that a Green Scourge does still retain that particular ability. You can lose a prepared spell to summon a weapon or summon animals to help you.

[Diego Rossi]

Reading the linked text I think that it only alter SNA adding an extra option, but it don't remove the ability to summon nature allies.
The new ability has a way to convert higher level spells, but that don't replace the usefulness of using them to get SNA.

From a balance point of view, if it was meant to replace SNA at all level it should at least give something at each new spell level (as an example, greater magic fang with the ability to add bane/frost/shock etc.)

[James Risner]

Ask your GM, but the word "add" doesn't appear:

Quote:

A green scourge can lose a prepared 1st- or 2nd-level spell in order to cast shillelagh or flame blade, respectively.

The Spontaneous ability is altered to be this. It doesn't say this in addition, or any other language.

[blahpers]

No. It would say "replaces" otherwise.

[James Risner]

Considering they have said that alter and replace are both done afterwards and neither are required to alter or replace (see archetype stacking FAQ), I’m not convinced.

Either way, this seems to be an Ask your GM question. We have multiple valid interpretation of the meaning.

[Fourshadow]

As written, it does appear to replace SNA rather than 'alter'. That is how I have always understood this archetype--which is one of my favorite Druid archetypes. The other is the ex-Druid of Anti-hero's Handbook. I love what the Player Companion line does for Pathfinder.

[Darksol the Painbringer]

Nope, you wouldn't get it because the full text says higher level spell slot sacrifices improve the effects of the shillelagh/flame blade accordingly, which means every instance of spontaneous spellcasting is altered to apply to that option instead of the standard option.

The lack of "replaces" instead of "alters" is effectively a typo, since the ability doesn't need to reference the original feature to function as intended.