Hi all,
So I've been throwing around the idea of making a Mindblade Magus lately because I find it to be a very cool archetype with amazing versatility. However, I can't really decide how the ability scores should be distributed. In order to make the most of the weapon versatility I feel like a high strength score is required, but the fact that the Mindblade gives up Medium and Heavy armor proficiency means that he'd need Dex to compensate. Of course being a Magus would also mean I'd need a moderately high Int for spellcasting. And then if you take into account the d8 hit dice for a melee character you'd also need a respectable Con. In fact it's similar to the Monk in many regards, just changing Wis to Int.
I figure I'd basically need to keep Int to the bare minimum and mostly rely more on attack spells and less on saving throw spells. Other than that the options I've considered so far are taking the medium and/or heavy armor proficiency feats since the Mindblade is an occult caster and therefore doesn't suffer from spell failure and keeping Dex low. Alternatively I could keep both Str and Dex balanced but I'd be sacrificing both attack and defense at that point.
I'm curious to see if anybody else has played a Mindblade Magus or a similar character and what they're experience has taught them. Or if anybody has any other ideas I hadn't considered I'd be happy to hear them.
Thank you
I would go with heavy armor just for the aesthetics.
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I play a Mindblade Magus in Pathfinder Society. I gave up on the ability to use spell combat and instead opted to use a reach weapon (Fauchard, 1d10 17-20) and Combat Reflexes to make up the difference and allow me to cast easier in combat.
I went with:
Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 12 (This I do regret)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8
If I had to do it over I might dip Str a bit to raise Con a 14. I can honestly say that the only reason this char is still alive is cause of a boon that increases the death threshold. As a side note, as a Mindblade you can grab silence as a spell, it won't affect you but will shut down most enemy casters (and I guess ally casters too).
What you would focus on for spells is buffs spells and spells that give you multiple attacks (like Chill Touch and Frostbite) instead of just one (like Shocking Grasp). This is mostly because you want to avoid Concentration checks as much as possible due to the Thought component of psychic magic (buffs can be cast beforehand, and multi-touch spells can be cast just before you enter threatened area and then used with Spellstrike potentially for multiple rounds; remember you can cast, 5-foot step, then attack with spell combat) and because you don't have Spell Recall like a normal Magus. Having good DCs is really nice, though, as touch debuffs are usually pretty great and your access to the Psychic spell list lets you pick up some really good stuff for both touch range and when you're away from that.
For armour, you can use a Chain Shirt to get the most armour bonus from Light Armour without pumping Dex really high, and (this is a bit gamey) later on get Mithral Kikko Armour which has an AC Bonus of 5, a Max Dex of 6, and an Armour Check Penalty of 0 (which means no penalty for non-proficiency). It may or may not be worth it for the price, but it does give more AC than the Chain Shirt.
Another option is, yes, just getting Medium Armour Proficiency and wearing a Breastplate since a Mindblade is a psychic caster.
Overall, you'll definitely need a moderately respectable Dex, though if you want to be Two-Weapon Fighting you're going to need more than that. Unfortunately, two-handed doesn't fully come online until 13th level (when you become able to use Spell Combat with two-handed weapons, though you can still Spellstrike with them right out of the gate).
I would go with heavy armor just for the aesthetics.
That would burn up 2 feats, though, and every one counts if you want TWF. Also, being fully- or part-Human means you can use the Martial Versatility feat (Magi get half their level as Fighter levels for feat prerequisites starting at 10th) to have a weapon-specific feat count for everything in the same Fighter Weapon Group, so you can get it twice for Weapon Focus and for Weapon Specialization or Improved Critical. This does burn up more feats (hence my mentioning it here), but if you want weapon versatility you can't beat it. Nodachi is in both the Heavy Blades and Polearms groups, which gives you a nice selection of one-handed and two-handed weapons (though lacking in light weapons for TWF, unless you use a Monk's Spade as a double weapon or have exotic proficiencies for weapons like Dueling Sword or the exotic double weapons).
I play a Mindblade Magus in Pathfinder Society. I gave up on the ability to use spell combat and instead opted to use a reach weapon (Fauchard, 1d10 17-20) and Combat Reflexes to make up the difference and allow me to cast easier in combat.
I went with:
Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 12 (This I do regret)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8If I had to do it over I might dip Str a bit to raise Con a 14. I can honestly say that the only reason this char is still alive is cause of a boon that increases the death threshold. As a side note, as a Mindblade you can grab silence as a spell, it won't affect you but will shut down most enemy casters (and I guess ally casters too).
Are you enjoying the archetype so far? And did you decide just to stick with Light Armor? Also Silence is a great suggestion. I hadn't even thought of that.
What you would focus on for spells is buffs spells and spells that give you multiple attacks (like Chill Touch and Frostbite) instead of just one (like Shocking Grasp). This is mostly because you want to avoid Concentration checks as much as possible due to the Thought component of psychic magic (buffs can be cast beforehand, and multi-touch spells can be cast just before you enter threatened area and then used with Spellstrike potentially for multiple rounds; remember you can cast, 5-foot step, then attack with spell combat) and because you don't have Spell Recall like a normal Magus. Having good DCs is really nice, though, as touch debuffs are usually pretty great and your access to the Psychic spell list lets you pick up some really good stuff for both touch range and when you're away from that.
For armour, you can use a Chain Shirt to get the most armour bonus from Light Armour without pumping Dex really high, and (this is a bit gamey) later on get Mithral Kikko Armour which has an AC Bonus of 5, a Max Dex of 6, and an Armour Check Penalty of 0 (which means no penalty for non-proficiency). It may or may not be worth it for the price, but it does give more AC than the Chain Shirt.
Another option is, yes, just getting Medium Armour Proficiency and wearing a Breastplate since a Mindblade is a psychic caster.Overall, you'll definitely need a moderately respectable Dex, though if you want to be Two-Weapon Fighting you're going to need more than that. Unfortunately, two-handed doesn't fully come online until 13th level (when you become able to use Spell Combat with two-handed weapons, though you can still Spellstrike with them right out of the gate).
Somehow I completely forgot about two-weapon fighting. Chill touch + TWF could incapacitate enemies pretty quick, which is awesome, but that'd definitely mean pumping Dex. Otherwise I agree that the thought component is definitely a limiting factor for Spell Combat. Finding a play style to work around it sounds fun though.
I would go with heavy armor just for the aesthetics.That would burn up 2 feats, though, and every one counts if you want TWF. Also, being fully- or part-Human means you can use the Martial Versatility feat (Magi get half their level as Fighter levels for feat prerequisites starting at 10th) to have a weapon-specific feat count for everything in the same Fighter Weapon Group, so you can get it twice for Weapon Focus and for Weapon Specialization or Improved Critical. This does burn up more feats (hence my mentioning it here), but if you want weapon versatility you can't beat it. Nodachi is in both the Heavy Blades and Polearms groups, which gives you a nice selection of one-handed and two-handed weapons (though lacking in light weapons for TWF, unless you use a Monk's Spade as a double weapon or have exotic proficiencies for weapons like Dueling Sword or the exotic double weapons).
How do you manage TWF? It seems like kind of a mess. Do you use a physical weapon in one hand? Because otherwise, you can't do it at all until level 7, and before level 13 you have to either just walk around holding weapons 24/7 or else spend two standard actions just to arm yourself. And then god forbid you need to use a potion or something, in which case you need to dismiss a weapon and spend another standard action getting it back.
It seems that using physical weapons is the only reasonable way to TWF with the archetype? And IMO that loses some of the style points of the archetype.
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I played one focused mainly in Intelligence, Dexterity as secondary. The goal was to have the most out of intelligence:lot of skill ranks, spells and arcane pool points, having also a lot of spells, higher DC, having good melee accuracy with arcane acccuracy arcana and dealing good melee damage with Elven Battle Focus. Mainly played as melee combatant with spells used outside combat and pre-buffing, using a lot of arcane accuracy. Bladed dash spell wash shining. Later added combat reflexes feat, lunge (to prevent aoos and concentration checks) flamboyant arcana to get Opportune Parry and Riposte, then spell shield as magus arcana to improve defense. With a lot of arcane pool points and extra spells i could buff easily everytime. With lot of skills i could manage a lot of situations versus environment and other npcs. Later I took a familiar and improved familiar to have a Cassisian angel to wear as an helm. Awesome. Was a figment + sage familiar, used mainly to have all more skill ranks, and used that like the AI of Iron Man (Marvel). I roleplayed it also to unmask it easily in social situation to making the helmet familiar dissipate, and reappear later in combat. I played it till level 13th, when I learned telekinesis and started to use it combined in an spell combat... I was also starting taking two-weapon fighting chain feats to fight with two elven thornblades, but campaign finished shortly later after leveling up to 13th
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I would go with heavy armor just for the aesthetics.That would burn up 2 feats, though, and every one counts if you want TWF.
Have you considered one level of fighter? Yes, it sets your caster level and magus class features back a level, but it gives you proficiency in those Armors and a bonus feat.
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I play a Mindblade Magus in Pathfinder Society. I gave up on the ability to use spell combat and instead opted to use a reach weapon (Fauchard, 1d10 17-20) and Combat Reflexes to make up the difference and allow me to cast easier in combat.
I went with:
Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 12 (This I do regret)
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 8If I had to do it over I might dip Str a bit to raise Con a 14. I can honestly say that the only reason this char is still alive is cause of a boon that increases the death threshold. As a side note, as a Mindblade you can grab silence as a spell, it won't affect you but will shut down most enemy casters (and I guess ally casters too).
Are you enjoying the archetype so far? And did you decide just to stick with Light Armor? Also Silence is a great suggestion. I hadn't even thought of that.
...What you would focus on for spells is buffs spells and spells that give you multiple attacks (like Chill Touch and Frostbite) instead of just one (like Shocking Grasp). This is mostly because you want to avoid Concentration checks as much as possible due to the Thought component of psychic magic (buffs can be cast beforehand, and multi-touch spells can be cast just before you enter threatened area and then used with Spellstrike potentially for multiple rounds; remember you can cast, 5-foot step, then attack with spell combat) and because you don't have Spell Recall like a normal Magus. Having good DCs is really nice, though, as touch debuffs are usually pretty great and your access to the Psychic spell list lets you pick up some really good stuff for both touch range and when you're away from that.
For armor, you can use a Chain Shirt to get the most armour bonus from Light Armour without pumping Dex really high, and (this is a bit gamey) later on get Mithral
The character is only level 6, I don't get to play him often but I do enjoy him as it gives me options I don't normally get. I ended up using the trait Armor Focus and a mithral breastplate to get medium armor without proficiency.
Only problem I have with this character is I just don't have a personality for him, my favorite characters have their own voices, a personality, I can be the character. This was something I really wanted but I just never developed the rest. I wanted to play a magus but didn't want something that was like 90% of the rest and when I saw this Archtype I had my wish fulfilled. Used suggestions from a Warpriest guide for ability scores and feats and psychic guide for spell selection ideas in addition to a magus guide that mentioned a little bit about the mindblade. I don't like making over powered characters, but I like solid characters that can hold their own or fulfill more than one role. This character is little strong offensively but is just one step above glass cannon so its a work in progress for me.
I was going to go into a Trip build but I decided at lvl5 to get toughness instead and improved initiative, and now I'm looking at improved familiar at level 7(For flavor more than crunch, unlocked a rather unique familiar I want to use for story).
I would go with heavy armor just for the aesthetics.That would burn up 2 feats, though, and every one counts if you want TWF. Also, being fully- or part-Human means you can use the Martial Versatility feat (Magi get half their level as Fighter levels for feat prerequisites starting at 10th) to have a weapon-specific feat count for everything in the same Fighter Weapon Group, so you can get it twice for Weapon Focus and for Weapon Specialization or Improved Critical. This does burn up more feats (hence my mentioning it here), but if you want weapon versatility you can't beat it. Nodachi is in both the Heavy Blades and Polearms groups, which gives you a nice selection of one-handed and two-handed weapons (though lacking in light weapons for TWF, unless you use a Monk's Spade as a double weapon or have exotic proficiencies for weapons like Dueling Sword or the exotic double weapons).How do you manage TWF? It seems like kind of a mess. Do you use a physical weapon in one hand? Because otherwise, you can't do it at all until level 7, and before level 13 you have to either just walk around holding weapons 24/7 or else spend two standard actions just to arm yourself. And then god forbid you need to use a potion or something, in which case you need to dismiss a weapon and spend another standard action getting it back.
It seems that using physical weapons is the only reasonable way to TWF with the archetype? And IMO that loses some of the style points of the archetype.
Characters don't exist in a vacuum; you have allies to support you, and a Mindblade is more of a sustained damage dealer than an unkillable beatstick or nova DPR.
Obviously Two-Weapon Fighting isn't a great option at 1st level, though if you wanted to, yes, you could use a real weapon and a psychic weapon.If you know you're in a dangerous area, just do what any other character would do: state you have your weapon(s) ready. Once you get into the high levels where every single tiny action counts in a life-or-death way, you'll be able to manifest them quicker. Before that, it's not a catastrophe.
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If you want a Dex build then you might consider taking advantage of the Elven racial weapons.
Mindblades have proficiency with all martial weapons so an Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Racial Trait or a Half-Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Alternate Racial Trait consider all of the following as racial weapons and would have proficiency with all of them.
• Longsword (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, 19-20/x2, S)
• Rapier (martial, one-handed, 1d4, 1d6, 18-20/x2, P, finesse)
• Elven Leafblade (exotic, light, 1d3, 1d4, 18-20/x2, P or S, finesse, +2 to confirm criticals)
• Elven Thornblade (exotic, one-handed, 1d4, 1d6, 18-20/x2, P or S, finesse, +2 to confirm criticals)
• Elven Curve Blade (exotic, two-handed, 1d8, 1d10, 18-20/x2, S, finesse, +2 CMD vs. sunder)
• Elven Branched Spear (exotic, two-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, P, brace, reach, finesse, +2 on attacks vs. movement provoked AoOs)
• Longbow (martial, ranged, 1d6, 1d8, x3, 100 ft, P)
• Longbow, Composite (martial, ranged, 1d6, 1d8, x3, 110 ft, P)
• Shortbow (martial, ranged, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 60 ft, P)
• Shortbow, Composite (martial, ranged, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 70 ft, P)
All of the melee weapons except the Longsword are finesseable and four of them have an 18-20 critical threat range. One downside for the Mindblade is that they can't use Spell Combat with TWF until 7th level or with a two-handed weapon until 13th level. These racial weapons can accomodate Dex-based builds for all three fighting styles.
You have a number of one-handed weapons, especially the Elven Thornblade, that work well at low levels. The Elven Leafblade is arguably the best weapon ever for a TWF Magus (light, 18-20 threat range, and +2 for confirming criticals). The Elven Branched Spear offers a two-handed reach weapon, and the Elven Curve Blade offers a high-damage, two-handed option.
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(1) The Ancestral Weapon Mastery feat.
Since you are already proficient with the weapons on your Weapon Familiarity racial trait, this feat grants you Weapon Focus with one of them. But with 10 minutes of practice you can shift Weapon Focus between those weapons. You can switch weapons between battles or as you progress to the TWF and Two-handed options.
There are a few feats that work with any weapon with which you have Weapon Focus. Thanks to Ancestral Weapon Mastery there is no need to take Weapon Focus in all of those weapons individually.
• Weapon Versatility will enable P, S, or B damage with any of those weapons.
• Stage Combatant will enable the use of Enforcer with any of the melee weapons.
• Dazzling Display and many of it's subsequent feats (Shatter Defenses, Gory Finish, Disheartening Display, or Violent Display) will work with all of those weapons.
The ability to transfer these feats between weapons greatly increases your flexibility.
(2) The Elven Battle Style feat chain.
Getting Dex to damage with all of these weapons is pretty much impossible, but you can use Elven Battle Focus to get Int to damage for all of the melee weapons. For a Magus, this is pretty good. Along the way you get some good boosts to AoOs. The chain consists of…
• Weapon Finesse
• Elven Battle Training
• Elven Battle Style
• Elven Battle Focus
• Elven Battle Torrent
I'd probably stop with Elven Battle Focus.
(3) Magic Items.
There are two magic items that boost all of those racial weapons.
• The High Elven Bracers grant a +1 Competence Bonus to attacks and damage with any of these weapons.
• The Ancestral Clasp grants a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls with any of these weapons.
(4) Martial Versatility.
A Half-Elf qualifies for the Martial Versatility options that Bloodrealm mentioned earlier.
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If you want a Dex build then you might consider taking advantage of the Elven racial weapons.
Mindblades have proficiency with all martial weapons so an Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Racial Trait or a Half-Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Alternate Racial Trait consider all of the following as racial weapons and would have proficiency with all of them.
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Wow, that's actually a really cool idea. Basically you'd make the character into a master of elven weaponry, which has some really cool thematic potential. It's not what I originally envisioned but now I'm definitely considering it.
Wow, that's actually a really cool idea. Basically you'd make the character into a master of elven weaponry, which has some really cool thematic potential. It's not what I originally envisioned but now I'm definitely considering it.If you want a Dex build then you might consider taking advantage of the Elven racial weapons.
Mindblades have proficiency with all martial weapons so an Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Racial Trait or a Half-Elf with the Weapon Familiarity Alternate Racial Trait consider all of the following as racial weapons and would have proficiency with all of them.
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Glad you like it. I have a similarly built Occultist who uses a Bladed Belt to switch between weapons.