Hi,
I've made a ranger, 9th level now using pathbuilder character creator. I have a question about how to combine some of the feats that require move action (bullseye shot) and full action (many shot). Also, how does vital strike and many shot work? I think I can double both arrows dmg with vital strike because they hit at the same time and I presumably aimed them at vital points. So questions.
1) If I use many shot with vital strike do I roll 2d8 (two arrows) plus 2d8 (vital strike)?
2) If I use bullseye shot that requires a move action to steady the shot can I use many shot with the +4 to hit when many shot requires a full attack action?
3) Can I cast a spell and then use many shot?
4) Can I cast a spell and use bullseye shot with many shot?
I ask because my my game has 6 players. Two of which are power gamers (3 including me I guess). We're steam rolling through everything and my DM gave me a gravity bow as an item, not a spell. So on my first attack with vital strike and many shot I'm doing 8d6+8 (2x2d6 arrows + 2x2d6 vital strike 2x1 magic bow dmg + 2x2 focused shot dmg + 2x1 point blank shot dmg). This requires 30ft attack range, but seems broken. Note: My character can't do anything else in combat except shoot instant death.
Looking forward to any advice.
So many issues with what you are trying to do. A lot of these abilities do not interact with each other at all.
Vital strike is it's own unique standard action. It pretty much does not work with any other feat. It absolutely does not work with many shot as many shot only works when you take the full attack action.
You cannot use bullseye shot with many shot for the same reason - many shot can only be used with a full attack - unless you use combat stamina to bring the action down to a swift action anyway.
You cannot use many shot in the same round that you cast a spell unless that spell has a swift action casting time.
Each round you can use 1 standard action, 1 move action and 1 swift action, or a full round action and a swift.
Most spells have a casting time of 1 standard action so pretty much rule out any other combat attack.
1. No
2. No
3. Unlikely unless you have a swift action spell
4. No.
Azbat wrote: Hi,
I've made a ranger, 9th level now using pathbuilder character creator. I have a question about how to combine some of the feats that require move action (bullseye shot) and full action (many shot). Also, how does vital strike and many shot work? I think I can double both arrows dmg with vital strike because they hit at the same time and I presumably aimed them at vital points. So questions.
1) If I use many shot with vital strike do I roll 2d8 (two arrows) plus 2d8 (vital strike)?
2) If I use bullseye shot that requires a move action to steady the shot can I use many shot with the +4 to hit when many shot requires a full attack action?
3) Can I cast a spell and then use many shot?
4) Can I cast a spell and use bullseye shot with many shot?
I ask because my my game has 6 players. Two of which are power gamers (3 including me I guess). We're steam rolling through everything and my DM gave me a gravity bow as an item, not a spell. So on my first attack with vital strike and many shot I'm doing 8d6+8 (2x2d6 arrows + 2x2d6 vital strike 2x1 magic bow dmg + 2x2 focused shot dmg + 2x1 point blank shot dmg). This requires 30ft attack range, but seems broken. Note: My character can't do anything else in combat except shoot instant death.
Looking forward to any advice.
Well starting with
1) Vital Strike is a standard action so you cannot use it with a full attack. Many shot requires a full attack so they cannot be combined.
2) You cannot use a move action with a full attack action such as many shot.
3)Casting a spell is a standard action so you cannot use a full attack which is needed for many shot.
4)See number 3.
1) You cannot use both Manyshot and Vital strike. Manyshot requires a full attack, and a Vital Strike is not a full attack.
2) No, you cannot. As you say, Manyshot requires a full attack and since full attacking requires your move action you cannot both take a move action to use Bullseye Shot and still full attack.
3) If the spell is a swift action to cast, you can cast it on the same turn you full attack. Otherwise you cannot full attack and cast a spell in the same round. Most spells are standard actions, so you can't normally even make a regular attack and cast a spell in the same round.
4) This is covered in my answers to 3 and 4.
Thank you dragonhunterq, riggamortis, and ohokwy.
What about rapid shot with many strike?
Azbat wrote: What about rapid shot with many strike? Yep, you can absolutely use both Rapid Shot and Manyshot at the same time.
Rapid Shot is a Required for Many Shot* for Feat Progression. Many Shot effectively combines the extra attack into one double attack, there by removing the -2 to all attacks. Both are Full Attack Actions so I don't believe you can combine them, so it's either Rapid Shot with the -2 on all attacks, but can fire at more targets or Many Shot with 2 Arrows hitting 1st target and continuing on with remaining attacks at normal attack bonus.
*Note: I'm assuming Many Strike is Many Shot.
Thank you everyone, this really clears things up. Looking forward to a more exciting game.
You can't combine Manyshot and Vital Strike.
Manyshot is done during a full-attack action. Vital Strike is a kind of standard attack. Focused Shot is also a standard action to use, so you'd have to choose between using it or Vital Strike.
Bullseye Shot combines with Vital Strike or Focused Shot, but not with Manyshot for the above reason.
If the spell is a swift action to cast, then you can use it during the full-attack action for Many Shot.
Spells have different casting times that are listed on the spell, with 1 standard action being the most common casting time.
So your attack should be:
(Manyshot) 4d6+4 (4d6 for two 2d6 arrows, +2 For magic enhancement, +2 for Point Blank Shot), then 2d6+2 for you next iterative attack during a full-attack action. So if both attacks hit, then you'll be doing 6d6+6 damage per round.
(Vital Strike) 4d6+2 (Double the dice on the arrows, +1 for magic enhancement, +1 for Point Blank Shot) You could combine it with Bullseye Shot for a +4 to hit as a move action. No iterative attacks on this method, so it is only going to be better on surprise rounds or when you are limited to a standard or move action during your turns. Alternatively, if the enemy is hard to hit, then this will make sure that you hit.
Also remember to enchant some arrows for extra damage and effects.
Even if you are using a character creator, you should look up your feats to make sure you know how they work.
Scrapper wrote: Rapid Shot is a Required for Many Shot* for Feat Progression. Many Shot effectively combines the extra attack into one double attack, there by removing the -2 to all attacks. Both are Full Attack Actions so I don't believe you can combine them, so it's either Rapid Shot with the -2 on all attacks, but can fire at more targets or Many Shot with 2 Arrows hitting 1st target and continuing on with remaining attacks at normal attack bonus.
*Note: I'm assuming Many Strike is Many Shot.
You can use them combined. They can both be triggered when making a Full Attack. They are used in conjunction with a Full Attack not in place of.
Scrapper wrote: Rapid Shot is a Required for Many Shot* for Feat Progression. Many Shot effectively combines the extra attack into one double attack, there by removing the -2 to all attacks. Both are Full Attack Actions so I don't believe you can combine them, so it's either Rapid Shot with the -2 on all attacks, but can fire at more targets or Many Shot with 2 Arrows hitting 1st target and continuing on with remaining attacks at normal attack bonus.
*Note: I'm assuming Many Strike is Many Shot.
Nope.
Rapid Shot works with full attack on a ranged weapon.
Manyshot works with full attack on a bow.
A composite bow would fulfill both requirements, and therefore be eligible to combine both as part of the same full attack.
From what you've all said (assuming within 30ft for PBS and Focused Shot).
I get two attacks per round at +9/+4 at level 9
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
I can take a full attack action to use rapid shot and many shot. I'll do 2d8+8 for the first attack at -2 to hit. then 1d8+4 at -2 for second attack (end of rapid shot). Then I get one last attack at 1d8+4 at +4-2 to hit. That's my full attack action if I don't move.
I assume I can also use many shot without rapid shot to avoid the penalties and shoot three arrows.
Alternatively,
I can move and then use vital strike for 2d8+4 (only one arrow) followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
Or,
I can use bullseye and then use vital strike for 2d8+8, followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
If I caste a spell (non swift) without quicken spell feat then thats my entire standard action but I still get to move before casting the spell.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Scrapper wrote: Rapid Shot is a Required for Many Shot* for Feat Progression. Many Shot effectively combines the extra attack into one double attack, there by removing the -2 to all attacks. Both are Full Attack Actions so I don't believe you can combine them, so it's either Rapid Shot with the -2 on all attacks, but can fire at more targets or Many Shot with 2 Arrows hitting 1st target and continuing on with remaining attacks at normal attack bonus.
*Note: I'm assuming Many Strike is Many Shot.
Nope.
Rapid Shot works with full attack on a ranged weapon.
Manyshot works with full attack on a bow.
A composite bow would fulfill both requirements, and therefore be eligible to combine both as part of the same full attack. Thanks for that clarification, may make use of it.
Azbat wrote: From what you've all said (assuming within 30ft for PBS and Focused Shot).
I get two attacks per round at +9/+4 at level 9
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
I can take a full attack action to use rapid shot and many shot. I'll do 2d8+8 for the first attack at -2 to hit. then 1d8+4 at -2 for second attack (end of rapid shot). Then I get one last attack at 1d8+4 at +4-2 to hit. That's my full attack action if I don't move.
I assume I can also use many shot without rapid shot to avoid the penalties and shoot three arrows.
Alternatively,
I can move and then use vital strike for 2d8+4 (only one arrow) followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
Or,
I can use bullseye and then use vital strike for 2d8+8, followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
If I caste a spell (non swift) without quicken spell feat then thats my entire standard action but I still get to move before casting the spell.
You cannot use Vital Strike and take a second attack. Your second attack is only gained when you take a Full Attack Action. So if you take a move action you cannot take a second attack.
Riggamortis wrote: Azbat wrote: From what you've all said (assuming within 30ft for PBS and Focused Shot).
I get two attacks per round at +9/+4 at level 9
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
I can take a full attack action to use rapid shot and many shot. I'll do 2d8+8 for the first attack at -2 to hit. then 1d8+4 at -2 for second attack (end of rapid shot). Then I get one last attack at 1d8+4 at +4-2 to hit. That's my full attack action if I don't move.
I assume I can also use many shot without rapid shot to avoid the penalties and shoot three arrows.
Alternatively,
I can move and then use vital strike for 2d8+4 (only one arrow) followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
Or,
I can use bullseye and then use vital strike for 2d8+8, followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
If I caste a spell (non swift) without quicken spell feat then thats my entire standard action but I still get to move before casting the spell.
You cannot use Vital Strike and take a second attack. Your second attack is only gained when you take a Full Attack Action. So if you take a move action you cannot take a second attack. Agree to disagree on that one buddeh. I'm Legolas! THWIP THWIP THWIP!!!! Your rules are ruining the game.
Azbat wrote: Riggamortis wrote: Azbat wrote: From what you've all said (assuming within 30ft for PBS and Focused Shot).
I get two attacks per round at +9/+4 at level 9
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
I can take a full attack action to use rapid shot and many shot. I'll do 2d8+8 for the first attack at -2 to hit. then 1d8+4 at -2 for second attack (end of rapid shot). Then I get one last attack at 1d8+4 at +4-2 to hit. That's my full attack action if I don't move.
I assume I can also use many shot without rapid shot to avoid the penalties and shoot three arrows.
Alternatively,
I can move and then use vital strike for 2d8+4 (only one arrow) followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
Or,
I can use bullseye and then use vital strike for 2d8+8, followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
If I caste a spell (non swift) without quicken spell feat then thats my entire standard action but I still get to move before casting the spell.
You cannot use Vital Strike and take a second attack. Your second attack is only gained when you take a Full Attack Action. So if you take a move action you cannot take a second attack. Agree to disagree on that one buddeh. I'm Legolas! THWIP THWIP THWIP!!!! Your rules are ruining the game. Saying you're a Lord of the Rings character is precisely the reason why Crossbows suck and there's little to no build support or character options for that sort of weapon, but I don't use it as an excuse to say somebody is wrong.
Back on topic with the rules...Vital Strike only functions when you take an Attack Action.
An Attack Action is a specific type of Standard Action.
Therefore, you cannot Vital Strike as part of a Full Attack, because a Full Attack is a Full Round Action, and not the Attack Action that Vital Strike requires.
If you don't like it, you can either find a table who houserules those abilities to work, or you can find a different game to play that better suits your playstyle.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Azbat wrote: Riggamortis wrote: Azbat wrote: From what you've all said (assuming within 30ft for PBS and Focused Shot).
I get two attacks per round at +9/+4 at level 9
Rapid Shot + Many Shot
I can take a full attack action to use rapid shot and many shot. I'll do 2d8+8 for the first attack at -2 to hit. then 1d8+4 at -2 for second attack (end of rapid shot). Then I get one last attack at 1d8+4 at +4-2 to hit. That's my full attack action if I don't move.
I assume I can also use many shot without rapid shot to avoid the penalties and shoot three arrows.
Alternatively,
I can move and then use vital strike for 2d8+4 (only one arrow) followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
Or,
I can use bullseye and then use vital strike for 2d8+8, followed by my second attack at 1d8+4.
If I caste a spell (non swift) without quicken spell feat then thats my entire standard action but I still get to move before casting the spell.
You cannot use Vital Strike and take a second attack. Your second attack is only gained when you take a Full Attack Action. So if you take a move action you cannot take a second attack. Agree to disagree on that one buddeh. I'm Legolas! THWIP THWIP THWIP!!!! Your rules are ruining the game. Saying you're a Lord of the Rings character is precisely the reason why Crossbows suck and there's little to no build support or character options for that sort of weapon, but I don't use it as an excuse to say somebody is wrong.
Back on topic with the rules...Vital Strike only functions when you take an Attack Action.
An Attack Action is a specific type of Standard Action.
Therefore, you cannot Vital Strike as part of a Full Attack, because a Full Attack is a Full Round Action, and not the Attack Action that Vital Strike requires.
If you don't like it, you can either find a table who houserules those abilities to work, or you can find a different game to play that better suits your playstyle. Relax painbringer. Games are supposed to be fun, especially fantasy where you can be imaginative, creative, and silly. Figuring out these rules sets and getting all sorts of different interpretations is as fun as doing my taxes.
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Azbat wrote: Relax painbringer. Games are supposed to be fun, especially fantasy where you can be imaginative, creative, and silly. Figuring out these rules sets and getting all sorts of different interpretations is as fun as doing my taxes. You picked the wrong game system to play then. There's a reason why excel sheets and Herolab (which automates virtually everything) are so popular with Pathfinder.
You sound like you'd have more fun with a rules light system.
Tarik Blackhands wrote: Azbat wrote: Relax painbringer. Games are supposed to be fun, especially fantasy where you can be imaginative, creative, and silly. Figuring out these rules sets and getting all sorts of different interpretations is as fun as doing my taxes. You picked the wrong game system to play then. There's a reason why excel sheets and Herolab (which automates virtually everything) are so popular with Pathfinder.
You sound like you'd have more fun with a rules light system. Are DM and group is a lot of fun. Any suggestions on light rules systems?
I'm not the hugest fan of rules-lite personally, but Unisystem (which includes the All Flesh Must be Eaten line among virtually every other setting) is pretty good and technically something like Paranoia works well considering the ideal way of playing is for the players to only read so far as character creation and the concept section.
Depends what you're looking for really. Most of the lite systems tend to be pretty modular but they tend to focus a specific theme/style.
Tarik Blackhands wrote: I'm not the hugest fan of rules-lite personally, but Unisystem (which includes the All Flesh Must be Eaten line among virtually every other setting) is pretty good and technically something like Paranoia works well considering the ideal way of playing is for the players to only read so far as character creation and the concept section.
Depends what you're looking for really. Most of the lite systems tend to be pretty modular but they tend to focus a specific theme/style.
Thanks!! I downloaded Herolab. Should make this a bit easier.
It'll track all the fiddly numbers anyway. You'll still need to extrapolate action economy combinations on your own but frankly the fiddly numbers are the more obnoxious part of the Pathfinder experience in my opinion.
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