Questions about Soldier's "Heavy Fire" Ability

[jabberwoky]

For reference, here are the rules as written on Heavy Fire. Bolded emphasis mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]

You can use your physical power to steady your weapon and make your attacks more dangerous. As a full action, you can make a single ranged attack that deals additional damage equal to your Strength bonus to all targets. You can use this ability in conjunction with the automatic, explode, or unwieldy special property.

Also for reference, an edited version of the automatic weapon property. Bolded emphasis also mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

AUTOMATIC

In addition to making ranged attacks normally, a weapon with this special property can fire in fully automatic Mode. No action is required to toggle a weapon between making normal ranged attacks and using automatic Mode.

When you make a full attack with a weapon in automatic Mode, you can attack in a cone with a range of half the weapon’s range increment. ...Attacks in automatic Mode take the same penalties as other full attacks.

So we know an automatic fire action requires a full action, and that "Heavy Fire" also requires a full action. Does this mean that a Soldier with the Heavy Fire ability needs to use two full actions (which he usually does not have in a turn) to use the two abilities at the same time? Or can the soldier apply Heavy Fire whenever he makes an attack that requires a full action with a weapon that is able to use Heavy Fire?

Furthermore, if a soldier can use automatic fire and Heavy Fire in the same action, does only one of the targets take Weapon Damage + Strength modifier damage, or do all of the targets take Weapon Damage + Strength modifier damage?

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

It says "in conjunction with" so I'd say you can use both at the same time.

And I'd say all the targets.

[Deadmanwalking]

Since it specifically says you can do both, you can. and since it says it deals Str damage 'to all targets' it does. Specific trumps general.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

^ this.

[jabberwoky]

Thank you for the answers. It would seem a switch-hitter build is rather viable in Starfinder.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

Np

And yep, it's kinda encouraged even :3

[PostalJohn]

Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but a question I have on the Heavy Fire ability:

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]
You can use your physical power to steady your weapon and make your attacks more dangerous. As a full action, you can make a single ranged attack that deals additional damage equal to your Strength bonus to all targets. You can use this ability in conjunction with the automatic, explode, or unwieldy special property.

Does the "in conjunction" indicate it can *only* be used with those special properties, or that it can be used with those special properties, but not with other special properties (ie, blast)?

[Xenocrat]

The latter. Surprised blast isn't on the list.

[PostalJohn]

Sorry, I guess for clarification: Can it be used with a weapon with no special properties?

[kaid]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Since it specifically says you can do both, you can. and since it says it deals Str damage 'to all targets' it does. Specific trumps general.

And given how much ammo you are spending and the relatively low damage on most automatic weapons it is basically an ability that lets you do some solid damage with these kinds of weapons. And I guess it makes some sense too you have the muscles to better aim the gun when going full rock and roll. Make sure to yell like rambo when initiating this attack.

[kaid]

PostalJohn wrote:

Sorry, I guess for clarification: Can it be used with a weapon with no special properties?

The wording is "You can use this ability in conjunction with the automatic, explode, or unwieldy special property."

Can not must so you should be able to use it fine with a weapon with no special properties.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Xenocrat wrote:

The latter. Surprised blast isn't on the list.

There's nothing about blast that would prevent you from using it with heavy fire, so there's no need to add it to that list. Blast calls out that one attack with a blast weapon involves making multiple attack rolls. As noted, automatic is unclear because if it's special action economy, unwieldy turned out to be unclear for the same reason (special action economy), and explode often doesn't "feel" like an attack to many players (as a result of the saving throw aspect), so it had to be called out.

[jabberwoky]

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

There's nothing about blast that would prevent you from using it with heavy fire, so there's no need to add it to that list. Blast calls out that one attack with a blast weapon involves making multiple attack rolls. As noted, automatic is unclear because if it's special action economy, unwieldy turned out to be unclear for the same reason (special action economy), and explode often doesn't "feel" like an attack to many players (as a result of the saving throw aspect), so it had to be called out.

You certain? These are the blast rules from the Core rulebook, bolded emphasis mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

BLAST

This weapon fires in a cone that extends only to its first range increment. You can’t use it to attack creatures beyond that range.

For each attack you make with a weapon with the blast special property, roll one attack against each target in the cone, starting with those closest to you. Each attack takes a –2 penalty in addition to other penalties, such as the penalty to all attacks during a full attack. Roll damage only once for all targets. If you roll one or more critical hits, roll the extra critical damage only once (or any other special effects on a critical hit that require you to roll) and apply it to each creature against which you score a critical hit. You can’t avoid shooting at allies in the cone, nor can you shoot any creature more than once.

Attacks with blast weapons ignore concealment. A blast weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack). Ammunition for blast weapons is designed for blast attacks, so you spend the usage amount only once for each cone of attacks.

And a slight reminder of Heavy Attack, bolded emphasis once again mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]

You can use your physical power to steady your weapon and make your attacks more dangerous. As a full action, you can make a single ranged attack that deals additional damage equal to your Strength bonus to all targets. You can use this ability in conjunction with the automatic, explode, or unwieldy special property.

[EC Gamer Guy]

He literally wrote the book!! Or told his people what to write. Take the extra damage and run with it.

jabberwoky wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

There's nothing about blast that would prevent you from using it with heavy fire, so there's no need to add it to that list. Blast calls out that one attack with a blast weapon involves making multiple attack rolls. As noted, automatic is unclear because if it's special action economy, unwieldy turned out to be unclear for the same reason (special action economy), and explode often doesn't "feel" like an attack to many players (as a result of the saving throw aspect), so it had to be called out.

You certain? These are the blast rules from the Core rulebook, bolded emphasis mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

BLAST

This weapon fires in a cone that extends only to its first range increment. You can’t use it to attack creatures beyond that range.

For each attack you make with a weapon with the blast special property, roll one attack against each target in the cone, starting with those closest to you. Each attack takes a –2 penalty in addition to other penalties, such as the penalty to all attacks during a full attack. Roll damage only once for all targets. If you roll one or more critical hits, roll the extra critical damage only once (or any other special effects on a critical hit that require you to roll) and apply it to each creature against which you score a critical hit. You can’t avoid shooting at allies in the cone, nor can you shoot any creature more than once.

Attacks with blast weapons ignore concealment. A blast weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack). Ammunition for blast weapons is designed for blast attacks, so you spend the usage amount only once for each cone of attacks.

And a slight reminder of Heavy Attack, bolded emphasis once again mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]

You can use your physical power to steady your weapon and make your attacks more dangerous. As a full action, you can

...

[jabberwoky]

EC Gamer Guy wrote:

He literally wrote the book!! Or told his people what to write. Take the extra damage and run with it.

I am simply quoting the rules as written. If the writers or publishers of the book would like to clarify these rules in an FAQ or errata, they are welcome to do so.

[citricking]

jabberwoky wrote:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

There's nothing about blast that would prevent you from using it with heavy fire, so there's no need to add it to that list. Blast calls out that one attack with a blast weapon involves making multiple attack rolls. As noted, automatic is unclear because if it's special action economy, unwieldy turned out to be unclear for the same reason (special action economy), and explode often doesn't "feel" like an attack to many players (as a result of the saving throw aspect), so it had to be called out.

You certain? These are the blast rules from the Core rulebook, bolded emphasis mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

BLAST

This weapon fires in a cone that extends only to its first range increment. You can’t use it to attack creatures beyond that range.

For each attack you make with a weapon with the blast special property, roll one attack against each target in the cone, starting with those closest to you. Each attack takes a –2 penalty in addition to other penalties, such as the penalty to all attacks during a full attack. Roll damage only once for all targets. If you roll one or more critical hits, roll the extra critical damage only once (or any other special effects on a critical hit that require you to roll) and apply it to each creature against which you score a critical hit. You can’t avoid shooting at allies in the cone, nor can you shoot any creature more than once.

Attacks with blast weapons ignore concealment. A blast weapon doesn’t benefit from feats or abilities that increase the damage of a single attack (such as the operative’s trick attack). Ammunition for blast weapons is designed for blast attacks, so you spend the usage amount only once for each cone of attacks.

And a slight reminder of Heavy Attack, bolded emphasis once again mine.

Starfinder Core Rulebook wrote:

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]

Heavy Fire (Ex) [5th Level]
You can use your physical power to steady your weapon and make your attacks more dangerous. As a full action, you can make a single ranged attack that deals additional damage equal to your Strength bonus to all targets. You can use this ability in conjunction with the automatic, explode, or unwieldy special property.

"to all targets." -> it's not a bonus to a single attack

[Keante]

citricking wrote:

"to all targets." -> it's not a bonus to a single attack

So a single attack can have multiple targets--I don't see how that's relevant. It says "you can make a single ranged attack that deals additional damage," therefore it is a single attack.

[Sobokazhet]

"All targets" simply means all the enemies you're capable of hitting, and sometimes it's just one. But if you use a weapon with automatic or explode as a special property then all targets means more than one.

Bombard is the grenade and heavy weapons specialist specialization, so it'd be a bit dumb if you couldn't use it with something like a reaction cannon.

[Just D]

Sorry to Necro this post, but I have a relevant question: do thrown weapons (specifically grenades, but also others) count for the Heavy fire ability? My GM said he'd allow it, but I'm more concerned about SFS. Thanks

[Star_Lord]

Seems like all thrown weapons get the heavy fire ability, but you can't double stack damage from the same stats.

Heavy fire grant the bonus to the EXPLODE ability. In weaponry (Core rule book since this style is in CRB), only Grenade have explodes. Logically, you add STR to grenade throw.

That's my take anyway.

[HammerJack]

Star_Lord wrote:

Seems like all thrown weapons get the heavy fire ability, but you can't double stack damage from the same stats.

Heavy fire grant the bonus to the EXPLODE ability. In weaponry (Core rule book since this style is in CRB), only Grenade have explodes. Logically, you add STR to grenade throw.

That's my take anyway.

You are incorrect about only grenade having explode in CRB. Read the heavy weapons table. Specifically the Shock and Plasma sections.

Being able to use Heavy Fire with grenades is still correct, though.

[Outatime1985]

Can you use a grenade launcher with grenades loaded in to use Heavy Fire or not? I am wondering about that question

[HammerJack]

I don't see why not. Saying that it didn't qualify as having the explode property would be an incredibly weird ruling.

[Pantshandshake]

It doesn't seem like you even need the explode property, you just need a weapon that can make a ranged attack. So, yes, I'd expect this works with a grenade from a launcher.