Solarion Key Ability is Charisma?


General Discussion

51 to 100 of 129 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HWalsh wrote:
MagicA wrote:
Personally I went with weapon focus instead of spellbane at 1st level to increase my to hit
That is perfect and viable as well. Mine is only a guide, not a "there is only one way" and it is going to largely depend on the GM and the style etc of what you need.

thanks gonna give it a gander now :)

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd be totally okay with Charisma as a key ability score for a martial class if the ability score benefited them in a special way. That's not the case with the Solarian. It doesn't do anything except determine DCs. This contrasts with other classes, which have abilities that scale with their key ability scores or use skill checks using skills associated with those ability scores.


@Cyrad

Hell, the soldier has TWO abilities it can choose between for their Resolve points


Yeah and for the Soldier those two stats are 'What you want to stab/shoot a dude' so they line up very naturally.

Liberty's Edge

Str as their key stat would make Solarian pretty overpowered as compared to the Soldier. Solarian has several very real advantages over Soldier that they pay for with not using their main stat for Resolve. Making Str their main stat would make melee Soldier sorta not a thing.


Melee Soldier would still have the edge defensively. Light armour + wanting literally every stat gives the edge vastly to the soldier over the Solarian.


Not like heavy armor is a hard sell for Solarions, especially CC ones. Spend a feat at level 1 and you're solid. Saves you from having to focus dex beyond what's needed to max armor bonus and not suck at shooting.


Ikiry0 wrote:
Melee Soldier would still have the edge defensively. Light armour + wanting literally every stat gives the edge vastly to the soldier over the Solarian.

Nope. Soldier, maximum, can get to 41/41 with light armor. Solarian with Solar Armor goes to 42/42 with light armor.


Cyrad wrote:
I'd be totally okay with Charisma as a key ability score for a martial class if the ability score benefited them in a special way. That's not the case with the Solarian. It doesn't do anything except determine DCs. This contrasts with other classes, which have abilities that scale with their key ability scores or use skill checks using skills associated with those ability scores.

I would argue that those DCs are pretty important. You start at level 1 with a once/3 rounds grenade that doesn't hurt you or an AOE pull people out of cover ability.

Also if it wasn't a key ability score, many new players would be more inclined not to pump cha, and its super important for the class.

Liberty's Edge

Ikiry0 wrote:
Melee Soldier would still have the edge defensively. Light armour + wanting literally every stat gives the edge vastly to the soldier over the Solarian.

You can fix that with a single Feat, at which point Soldier's 'defensive advantage' consists of +1 KAC. Anything that can be almost completely compensated for by one Feat isn't a huge class advantage. Certainly not one that makes up for +10 damage per attack and how much better Revelations are than Feats.

Also, with Str to Resolve all they want is Str and Dex, just like a Soldier. They might well prioritize Cha as a tertiary thing, but not enough to be a big issue for them.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ikiry0 wrote:
Melee Soldier would still have the edge defensively. Light armour + wanting literally every stat gives the edge vastly to the soldier over the Solarian.

You can fix that with a single Feat, at which point Soldier's 'defensive advantage' consists of +1 KAC. Anything that can be almost completely compensated for by one Feat isn't a huge class advantage. Certainly not one that makes up for +10 damage per attack and how much better Revelations are than Feats.

Also, with Str to Resolve all they want is Str and Dex, just like a Soldier. They might well prioritize Cha as a tertiary thing, but not enough to be a big issue for them.

Well, to be fair to the Soldier, it is a little better than just 1 KAC. They can increase max dex to all armor by taking up Guard as a second fighting style at 9th level.

But yeah, Solarians have a lot of other stuff that is good.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
You can fix that with a single Feat, at which point Soldier's 'defensive advantage' consists of +1 KAC. Anything that can be almost completely compensated for by one Feat isn't a huge class advantage. Certainly not one that makes up for +10 damage per attack and how much better Revelations are than Feats.

Plasma Sheath lasts for 1 turn (It's 1 turn or until you leave photon. The former is likely to happen a lot sooner.) and takes a move action to put back up again each time it runs out and the +10 is only at level 20.

The Soldier gets 1.5x Strength to damage at all times from a lot earlier.

Liberty's Edge

oldskool wrote:
Well, to be fair to the Soldier, it is a little better than just 1 KAC. They can increase max dex to all armor by taking up Guard as a second fighting style at 9th level.

Well, at high levels, a Solarian can go Gravity Shield and get +1 AC from that. That would necessitate not going Photon, but it's an option.

oldskool wrote:
But yeah, Solarians have a lot of other stuff that is good.

Indeed, which was rather my point.

Liberty's Edge

Ikiry0 wrote:

Plasma Sheath lasts for 1 turn (It's 1 turn or until you leave photon. The former is likely to happen a lot sooner.) and takes a move action to put back up again each time it runs out and the +10 is only at level 20.

The Soldier gets 1.5x Strength to damage at all times from a lot earlier.

It lasts the whole time you're in Photon Mode, actually. It doesn't say 'whichever occurs first' after all.

And Photon Mode itself gives about the same size bonus as 1.5x Str (+1 at 1st, +2 at 6th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 18th).


My judgement is still out on Solarians, but they do give you a LOT of options on how to play them. I think they should have been closer to the Paladins (and anti-Paladins) of space.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Deadmanwalking wrote:
It lasts the whole time you're in Photon Mode, actually. It doesn't say 'whichever occurs first' after all.

...that's an interesting interpretation. Not sure it's one backed up by the rules.


Solarians are my favorite class

even with the little things here and there

its a solid class (although it does start off a bit weaker until level 5)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ikiry0 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
It lasts the whole time you're in Photon Mode, actually. It doesn't say 'whichever occurs first' after all.
...that's an interesting interpretation. Not sure it's one backed up by the rules.

I don't see how any other interpretation would make sense. Why bother with the photon line if it always is going to fade after one round? I mean you can argue artifact from the editting line but the language is used in far too many other abilities to be considered a mistake and I'm fairly sure most people are going to err toward the option that isn't a waste of text.

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Ikiry0 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
It lasts the whole time you're in Photon Mode, actually. It doesn't say 'whichever occurs first' after all.
...that's an interesting interpretation. Not sure it's one backed up by the rules.

To quote the book:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, p.102-103 wrote:
A revelation that says it lasts for 1 round or until you leave the associated mode lasts for whichever of these durations is longer.

So it's explicitly stated.


Ikiry0 wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
It lasts the whole time you're in Photon Mode, actually. It doesn't say 'whichever occurs first' after all.
...that's an interesting interpretation. Not sure it's one backed up by the rules.

That's what the book actually says.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Cyrad wrote:
I'd be totally okay with Charisma as a key ability score for a martial class if the ability score benefited them in a special way. That's not the case with the Solarian. It doesn't do anything except determine DCs. This contrasts with other classes, which have abilities that scale with their key ability scores or use skill checks using skills associated with those ability scores.

This is my biggest problem with the stat choice too. The cha focus seems odd.

Personally still think Int would have been a really awesome choice, but eh.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:


To quote the book:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, p.102-103 wrote:
A revelation that says it lasts for 1 round or until you leave the associated mode lasts for whichever of these durations is longer.
So it's explicitly stated.

Why do people keep missing that line? It's about the fourth time I've seen someone who seems to have missed it completely.

But actually on topic, it would have been amazing to see the solarian have a choice among the mental stats in key ability scores. Personally wisdom seems like the original option as solarians 'meditate' to gain 'a better understanding' of their philosophy and this philosophy was founded by a race with a wisdom bonus after all. I can't see explicit reasons for an Int key score, minus the obvious 'I'm smart enough to understand how this works'


Exactly, the soldier gets choices for their key ability
why doesnt the solarian?


MagicA wrote:

Exactly, the soldier gets choices for their key ability

why doesnt the solarian?

Because why in the holy hell would anyone not choose strength or dex instead of cha?

Without resolve, Cha could already be fairly reliably be dropped off Solarians since a fair chunk of their best revelations are completely agnostic of it. Resolve is about all it has going for it outside a bunch of revelation DCs (and about half those revelations either suck or are niche appeal)

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Has anyone actually built a solarian with Cha of at least 16? Everyone keeps saying it won't work, but I'm not so sure. Such a solarian would concentrate more on using revelations and less on normal damage in combat, and also concentrate on CHA based skills; probably built to be a captain in space combat.


Biggest problem in my mind is that your damage is going to be pretty awful if you go whole hog on cha since the only damage thing you have is Supernova which requires full attunement. I guess you could go dex/cha and go a gunslinger solar armor build but the problem is that most of the revelations that rely on cha (except nova) is that they're only really effective on humanoids (especially those that use weapons for grav surge) and debuffs from things like flare and radiation are frankly stuff that would be better done by an Envoy or something. Crush is a possibility, but it kicks in at level 6 and basically neutralizes yourself along the way.

It'll probably be competent enough for general play assuming you don't dump dex I guess.


I meant that likenhow he soldier can choose between two physical stats for their resolve

Let the solarian choose between mental stats for their key ability score

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Redelia wrote:
Has anyone actually built a solarian with Cha of at least 16? Everyone keeps saying it won't work, but I'm not so sure. Such a solarian would concentrate more on using revelations and less on normal damage in combat, and also concentrate on CHA based skills; probably built to be a captain in space combat.

Str 16, Dex 13, Cha 16 seems a valid Korasha Lashunta distribution.


Redelia wrote:
Has anyone actually built a solarian with Cha of at least 16? Everyone keeps saying it won't work, but I'm not so sure. Such a solarian would concentrate more on using revelations and less on normal damage in combat, and also concentrate on CHA based skills; probably built to be a captain in space combat.

I've been toying around with several attribute distributions seeing which ones I like and how can I get the most bang for my level up bucks, etc...

You can start with a 16 Cha and still be fairly competent in melee with any race that doesn't start with a negative in the stat. If you want to completely sac Dex, you can go 16 Str and 16 Cha fairly easily on several races. The Korasha Lashunta lets you bring Dex back into the picture as mentioned already. A 14 starting Str isn't as bad as it sounds if you plan on Weapon Focus since you'll hit an 18 by 10th if you devote your ability points to it. I know the Iconics get some flack for their attribute allocation, but the Iconic Solarian starts with a 14 Str and uses his wealth to buy a +4 Str augment by 8th level with a 16 from level up. Sure, maybe his array doesn't look hyper optimized, and it's not, but the Iconics have given me a lot of ideas when you compare them against each other.

For races that have Cha or Str penalties you may just consider playing them as a ranged character. An Android can start 10 14 10 12 10 16 (missing a 1pt for theme) and take Longarm Prof at 1st level.

I'm still of the opinion that the Solarian has features included on purpose to balance out it's MAD attribute array. Like how Flashing Strikes is an effective +1 to hit for full attacks lessening that most Solarians will be roughly +1 to hit & damage behind a Soldier that can afford to start with an 18 Str. Or how Sidereal Influence slowly lets you gain up to 3 skills with a +1D6 insight bonus. Or how Solar Armor can be effectively the same EAC/KAC as another light armor class (you can get up to a 22 Dex or +6 bonus, have +2 from Solar Armor, and hit the same 40/40 armor as say, an Operative with a 26 Dex). Yes, I'm aware you can maximize any of these features but as they are written, you can easily get by without having ability scores that equal perfect man (or woman).

**Edit, also I think it is worth mentioning that a lot of character building seems to be done in a vacuum. You may very well change your build plan according to what other classes are in your crew. A 14 Str with Weapon Focus (for a +3 to hit before BAB) is less of a concern if you have anyone else that can grant Flat-Footed. If you're the only melee on the team, then maybe you'll favor physical stats more. Also, I don't think Solarians have to be pigeon-holed into a Captain. That is just an obvious path. Just about anyone can be a Gunner and they can make very effective Pilots. I haven't tinkered with a concept around Engineer or Science Officer, but I'd imagine they can fill those roles if you plan for it. I'm not stating they are the best at any of those, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility to build for those roles either.


It does not even have to be a mechanical reason, it can be thematic.
They want solarians to have charisma the same reason they wanted sorceress or oracle to have charisma as an essential attribute.
Force of will and so worth.


Envall wrote:

It does not even have to be a mechanical reason, it can be thematic.

They want solarians to have charisma the same reason they wanted sorceress or oracle to have charisma as an essential attribute.
Force of will and so worth.

Yes, but they backed that up with mechanics. You need charisma to cast spells on those classes. You get more spells the more charisma you have on those classes. The DC to resist your spells is based on charisma.

You can't just say "I want you to have X" and then be completely mismatched with the mechanics or people will not have x.

This was a problem for the chained rogue and dexterity.

In 3.x it was a problem for wizards elves and dwarves. Elves were touted as being great wizards and dwarves distrustful of magic but the actual mechanics made dwarves the best wizards around and elves pretty bad at it so... Goodbye Leafy Wizard Hello Beardy McSpellbook.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Redelia wrote:
Has anyone actually built a solarian with Cha of at least 16? Everyone keeps saying it won't work, but I'm not so sure. Such a solarian would concentrate more on using revelations and less on normal damage in combat, and also concentrate on CHA based skills; probably built to be a captain in space combat.

I've stated up a Human Str 14/Dex 11/Cha 18 build, going Heavy armor and Improved Disarm with a taclash, but not played it. It'd be a bit weak at 1st level, but at 2nd you get reusable control in the form of Radiation (DC 15). Radiation + Improved Combat Maneuver (Disarm) + Taclash is effectively +8 to disarm. You just stay in Photon mode, try to disarm, and make AoOs with your reach.

Also, at the beginning of each day, make sure to make all your allies immune to your Radiation for 24 hours by having them pass a saving throw, so it doesn't come up as an issue during combat. Radiation is actually one of the more team friendly AoEs.

Continue to take control powers (and probably go unbalanced). Grab Flare, Crush, Hypnotic Glow. You now have maxed save DCs against Fort, Reflex, and Will usable against every enemy you encounter at least once. In principle, while not the greatest damage, it might make a decent "tank".

Liberty's Edge

Ravingdork wrote:
HWalsh wrote:


One I have seen for human that is pushing nothing past 18:

01: 14, 13, 10, 10, 12, 14
05: 16, 15, 12, 10, 14, 16
10: 18, 15, 14, 12, 14, 18
15: 18, 17, 16, 14, 16, 18
20: 18, 18, 18, 16, 18, 18

With items:

24, 20, 18, 16, 18, 22

But how does it look at level 19? Nobody really cares about stats you won't have for the vast majority of your career (most don't spend more than a couple of games at level 20, at most, if any at all).

Well, adding the same items to the 15th level stats, from 15th on they look like this:

Str 24 Dex 19 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 22

Which isn't bad at all.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So much for my reading comprehension. I somehow failed to notice that he posted the progression at all levels, not just level 20.

I'm bloody blind.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Hiruma Kai wrote:

Also, at the beginning of each day, make sure to make all your allies immune to your Radiation for 24 hours by having them pass a saving throw, so it doesn't come up as an issue during combat. Radiation is actually one of the more team friendly AoEs.

Note to people whose alignment doesn't end in E: party members who plan to reproduce and/or live to reach old age may object to this treatment.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
HWalsh wrote:


One I have seen for human that is pushing nothing past 18:

01: 14, 13, 10, 10, 12, 14
05: 16, 15, 12, 10, 14, 16
10: 18, 15, 14, 12, 14, 18
15: 18, 17, 16, 14, 16, 18
20: 18, 18, 18, 16, 18, 18

With items:

24, 20, 18, 16, 18, 22

But how does it look at level 19? Nobody really cares about stats you won't have for the vast majority of your career (most don't spend more than a couple of games at level 20, at most, if any at all).

Well, adding the same items to the 15th level stats, from 15th on they look like this:

Str 24 Dex 19 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 22

Which isn't bad at all.

Looks like 5 stats were increased by 2 at 5th level (Str, Dex, Con, Wis, Cha).

Omitting that extra stat bump would look like:

01: 14 13 10 10 12 14
05: 16 15 12 10 12 16
10: 18 15 14 12 14 16
15: 18 17 16 12 16 18
20: 18 18 18 14 18 18

or 24 19 16 12 16 22 at 15th

Still not too bad.


Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!

If you don't like anything about the game, why are you here?

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!

Solarian is the highest DPR class in the game, and very effective in numerous ways. They are in no way a 'crippled mess'.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!

If you don't like anything about the game, why are you here?

Because I wanted to see what others thought of the game, and like I said, the Solarian seemed cool?


That said Solarians still have some really irritating/baffling design choices in there. My personal favorite is that Hypnotic Glow has a bonus for attunement when its a distinctly non-combat power and you can only attune in fights. Graviton stuff also is lackluster compared to Photon stuff in general

And that's in addition to the fact weapon sols have a true dead level which is a pretty big design gaff imo.

Shame too, since I like most of the class, but there's some parts that just rub me the wrong way.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!
If you don't like anything about the game, why are you here?

Seriously. There's tons of scifi games available. Star wars, star trek, FATE, sci fi adaptations of literally every edition of D&D, and lots more. If you can't stand Starfinder, pick one of the many on the market.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Seriously, Solarians maybe having 1 less Resolve than a Soldier hardly cripples them. At least they get Perception as a class skill. Speaking of which, I agree that the more annoying issue is their skills. They get the bonus 2 class skills, but probably won't ever use them!

Tarik, did you miss that Hypnotic Glow's attuned effect is command? Letting you disarm or remove them from the fight.


Game Master Q wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!
If you don't like anything about the game, why are you here?
Seriously. There's tons of scifi games available. Star wars, star trek, FATE, sci fi adaptations of literally every edition of D&D, and lots more. If you can't stand Starfinder, pick one of the many on the market.

Yes, yes, ignore the reply I gave. Just try to gang up on me, that's cool. Also, maybe I'm looking at Starfinder because I like Pathfinder, rather than specifically looking for a sci-fi game?


d'Eon wrote:

Seriously, Solarians maybe having 1 less Resolve than a Soldier hardly cripples them. At least they get Perception as a class skill. Speaking of which, I agree that the more annoying issue is their skills. They get the bonus 2 class skills, but probably won't ever use them!

Tarik, did you miss that Hypnotic Glow's attuned effect is command? Letting you disarm or remove them from the fight.

It seemed contradictory to me since they need to be charmed which generally fails in combat situations but it functions as command but still references charm and... /goes cross-eyed


Charm doesn't fail in combat, they just get a +5 bonus to their save. Not amazing, but it does seem to work without completely falling apart.

We'd need to see the expected saves for a CD 6 critter to get a sense of how likely it is to work in combat, but I think you could easily get a DC of 17-18 at level 6.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Although another weird thing I found is rereading the Radiation Revelation. Even though it talks about low-level radiation, I'm pretty convinced that it isn't actually a radiation effect. The DCs aren't the comparable, the effect never actually references the radiation rules, and it doesn't do the same thing as actual radiation.

I'm thinking it just gives you an aura that sickens people, unless they're immune to poison. No interaction with armor, or other rad fields, or anything. Just exactly what the ability says.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bloodrealm wrote:
Game Master Q wrote:
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Bloodrealm wrote:
Oh, the Solarian, the only thing really cool and interesting to me in D&D 5TH EDITION: IN SPAAAACE! Starfinder turns out to be a crippled mess? I never would have expected that from a game that has lame races, poaches a few of the things I hate from 5E, and has that terrible Resolve Point system!
If you don't like anything about the game, why are you here?
Seriously. There's tons of scifi games available. Star wars, star trek, FATE, sci fi adaptations of literally every edition of D&D, and lots more. If you can't stand Starfinder, pick one of the many on the market.
Yes, yes, ignore the reply I gave. Just try to gang up on me, that's cool. Also, maybe I'm looking at Starfinder because I like Pathfinder, rather than specifically looking for a sci-fi game?

I'm sorry I started a dogpile. That wasn't my intention.

My issue is that while plenty of posters beforehand have demonstrated the viability, utility and general fun of playing a Solarion, you just complained about every interesting thing that Starfinder has as a rule set.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Tarik Blackhands wrote:
d'Eon wrote:

Seriously, Solarians maybe having 1 less Resolve than a Soldier hardly cripples them. At least they get Perception as a class skill. Speaking of which, I agree that the more annoying issue is their skills. They get the bonus 2 class skills, but probably won't ever use them!

Tarik, did you miss that Hypnotic Glow's attuned effect is command? Letting you disarm or remove them from the fight.

It seemed contradictory to me since they need to be charmed which generally fails in combat situations but it functions as command but still references charm and... /goes cross-eyed

Charming the person is usually what triggers the fight. The ability makes charming one person in a group of possible foes actually do something. In Pathfinder, if you charmed one of the mercenaries, their buddies would attack your friends and the one you charmed would attack anyone but you. That command effect makes the whole ability tons more useful.

51 to 100 of 129 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Starfinder / Starfinder General Discussion / Solarion Key Ability is Charisma? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.