If a character is given a racial 'bump' to a stat, can that 'bump' be traded 'down' to gain ability points to use on another ability, so long as the ability does not go below 10?
No. You start with 10 in all stats, Add racial modifiers, Add the +1 from theme. Then spend 10 points on a 1 for 1 basis. 18 is your max starting stat. You can voluntarily lower stats but you gain no benefit for it. No extra points.
There isn't any way to gain extra ability points during character creation, if you decrease those stats you gain nothing from doing so.
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Any word on what the character creation rule for SFS will be?
OMG!
Luke Spencer!
I remember you from General Hospital decades ago!
I think any race could work for any class but it depends on the level of play. A race at level 1 that takes a -2 penalty to their main class stat is gonna struggle unless they dump all/most of their points into that stat to get a 16 or 18, but once you get to higher levels and get access to personal upgrades and stat boosts then race bonus/penalty have a more negligible effect. Obviously it'll never be optimal but the difference won't make the character unplayable.
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.
Is point buy going to be the SFS default, or will the arrays be allowed?
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What I'm really hoping is that the theme bonus isn't going to be stuck in a state of never being able to translate into a modifier bonus without being cancelled out by the 16 +2, 17 +1 rule of stat increases.
Unless its one of those "odd numbers unlock feats" things, its not worth mentioning it; and even then, its still just going to be made redundant once it inevitably gets raised.
It seems like a +1 theme bonus pays off in your primary or secondary stat late game. Instead of putting an extra +1 from level attribute gains to hit an even bonus, you use your existing theme point to get there, giving you the option to instead raise a tertiary attribute that hasn't hit the point of diminishing returns by +2. The Theme bonus is only stranded if you put in a stat you don't care about much that you'll never push above 15/17.
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.
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Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.
Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.
What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.
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Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.
Or my Vesk Mechanic.
Hope everyone can live with the completely non-optimal stats layout mandated by point buy.
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Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.Or my Vesk Mechanic.
Hope everyone can live with the completely non-optimal stats layout mandated by point buy.
I think the point buy is just fine.
Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.
** spoiler omitted **Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.
I believe you can buy up from an 8 to an 18 in Starfinder, it will just take all 10 of your points, meaning you are stuck with 12/12/11 (or 13/12) with your racial and theme bounses in the relevant ability scores.
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.
You're implying you can actually add it somehow after the fact. But no, you have to add the bonus during Char-gen, and during Char Gen, you're capped at 18.
Whatever stat you put the 1 remainder in, its going to be odd; and no matter how many times you increase the base stat, you're not going to be able to bypass the point you're going to have to go through the 16 to 17 gap.
If we ignored the existence of that 1 remainder, it would be at 16 at this point, and increasing the ability score would put you at 18. If we don't ignore it, its going to be 17, which STILL only puts you at 18.
In order for it to grant this "5 levels extra bonus" worth of extra bonus, it has be applied at a different time to when its been FORCIBLY applied.
... Sigh...
You know what, I'm just going to house rule that the Theme Bonus will be +2 instead.
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.You're implying you can actually add it somehow after the fact. But no, you have to add the bonus during Char-gen, and during Char Gen, you're capped at 18.
Whatever stat you put the 1 remainder in, its going to be odd; and no matter how many times you increase the base stat, you're not going to be able to bypass the point you're going to have to go through the 16 to 17 gap.
If we ignored the existence of that 1 remainder, it would be at 16 at this point, and increasing the ability score would put you at 18. If we don't ignore it, its going to be 17, which STILL only puts you at 18.
In order for it to grant this "5 levels extra bonus" worth of extra bonus, it has be applied at a different time to when its been FORCIBLY applied.
That's actually exactly what I'm saying. It's "useless" (except for feat prerequisites) at chargen, but useful for certain character advancement assumptions at levels 5 (maybe), 10, or 15.
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That's actually exactly what I'm saying. It's "useless" (except for feat prerequisites) at chargen, but useful for certain character advancement assumptions at levels 5 (maybe), 10, or 15.
Consider a base 14 vs base 15 stat at level 1.
Level 1: 14 vs 15
Level 5: 16 vs 17
Level 10: 18 vs 18 (the extra odd point disappears here 16->18, 17->18)
Level 15: 19 vs 19
Level 20: 20 vs 20
In this example, it sticks around to make meeting feat requirements easier for levels 1-9, and then from level 10 on, starting with a 14 is identical to starting with a 15.
All Vesk Mercenaries qualify for Heavy Armor proficiency without further investment.
There are other cases where it helps with feat prerequisites, but that one is certainly one of the better ones.
All Vesk Mercenaries qualify for Heavy Armor proficiency without further investment.
There are other cases where it helps with feat prerequisites, but that one is certainly one of the better ones.
Vesk Mechanics, too, if one takes an exocortex.
Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.
Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con
Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.
I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.
You know what, I'm just going to house rule that the Theme Bonus will be +2 instead.
That would make it useful and/but immediately give a bonus at first level for a secondary. Another option I thought of was all the theme bonus - and only the theme bonus - to bump a stat to 19. Doesn't mean much, if anything at first level, but would allow the level 5 stat boost to bump it to 20.
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I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.
Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con
Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.
Actually, First Contact specifies that you treat all +1 or -1 as +2 or -2 when making PCs of that race. It's in the sidebar on p. 3.
** spoiler omitted **Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.
You have way more 'HP' so you'll probably be fine as far as it goes. You could go all the way to 18 in Int if you wanted, since the penalty doesn't effect caps in Starfinder...but honestly, if I were going Vesk, I'd go with the unusual melee Mechanic and skip Dex for Str.
Starfinder Guild Guide is out.
The character creation rules are exactly as in the book with the 7 base races available. So 10 in all stats, apply race and theme modifiers and then you have 10 points to add, up to a max of 18.
I imagine the 5th level ability boost will make a lot of changes. If I read it correctly it's +2 to 4 stats as long as they are 16 or lower. +1 to any of those 4 stats 17 or higher. So if you design it right you could have a few 18s and 16s at 5th level.
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Any word on what the character creation rule for SFS will be?
OMG!
Luke Spencer!
I remember you from General Hospital decades ago!
I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.
Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con
Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.
Actually, First Contact specifies that you treat all +1 or -1 as +2 or -2 when making PCs of that race. It's in the sidebar on p. 3.
Thanks, I missed that.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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It says do that to "adapt them to the traditional Pathfinder RPG racial traits".
I took that to mean that if you were converting these races to Pathfinder, for some reason, you'd treat 1s as 2s.
Otherwise, whats the point of listing them in 1 format to begin with?
Assuming your players are 1st level, and thus APL = 2 (1 higher for 6+ players). Then a hard encounter (APL+2, as you noted) would be equivalent to a CR 4. A CR 4 encounter has a budget of 1,200 XP. 1,200 XP divided by 135 (the XP for each goblin) would be just shy of 9 goblins.
However
Since you said there are 8 players, I'd drop in a couple more, or try to give the goblins a slight tactical edge (surprise round, cover, etc.)