Temple of the Twelve (GM Reference)

[pithica42]

Mudscale wrote:

So about to finish book two and I feel like I'm missing something. How are people running the return at the very end. There isn't a method to recharge armour and it's another trip back.

I haven't gotten there yet, but my plan was the following. Since this is the ruins of an old elf city, I was going to have there be an ancient unmapped Aiudara somewhere on site. This one leads back either to Qabarat (if I'm not feeling like any side tracks) or Telasia (if I'm feeling frisky). That gives me the opportunity to shortcut the trip back and also maybe lay in some extra flavor stuff (like needing to bribe the Dragon Urvosk or his minions in Telasia to get back to Qabarat in one piece). If Panallier survived or sided with them, he can be the one to tell them about it, or they can discover it in their inevitable search for loot after the final encounter.

[Mudscale]

I like both of those ideas. I have no idea how the Aiudara work but I can treat them as 1 way stargates. NPC will know address but also require some mysticism checks to repair it perhaps, even only good enough for one brief trip.

Then also have the signal as a deus ex machina failsafe.

[PiLambdaOd]

What are some ways I can balance this for a party of 3? The Skyfisher fight nearly TPK'd and took hours.

[Johann Weiss]

There's been talk about the environmental protection from heat but it seems more extreme for my players. The journey is 10-12 days and their armour only protects them for 2 days per level (12 hours each day). Most of my players haven't bought new armour recently cause it's very expensive with limited options (light or heavy plus level cap). So they're only protected for half the journey and they're trying to plan for a return trip. With no protection it's 12 successive fort saves going from a 15 to 25 with d4 damage each time. That's a hard save at this level with a lot of successive damage.

Am I missing something or is this actually how challenging it's meant to be?

[Magabeus]

Your players should have sufficient stamina (at least 15 for a technomancer without Con modifier) to be able to withstand quite some hours of hot weather conditions. Even with failing every save they should be able (on average) to cover 6 hours before they start to go into hitpoints. If they take a 10 minute rest at lunchtime they will regain their stamina and can march another 6 hours.

If they are planning they can also buy some additional flight suits to give them additional weather protection for 2 days at a price of 95 credits.

My concern is more what I will answer when they tell me they will march at night... I think I will just reverse it to cold in that case.

[pithica42]

I wouldn't reverse it to cold. It's a jungle, not a desert. I would though, remind them that night's when many of the biting insects and many predators come out and unless they want Castrovelian malaria or jaguar bite marks, they'd still want to wear armor with armor protection up when travelling.

But, I'd also recommend just short-cutting the trip back somehow, unless you have something interesting story-wise planned (like the resolution of a side plot you added, or introduction to some other homebrew, or something). It's anticlimactic, story wise, having them fight the big bad and discover the secret plot and then force them to slog their way home, making a bunch of random saves, over another game session or two. There's a reason LoTR doesn't end with another 4 books of Bilbo going back to the Shire, and it isn't just "Eagles".

[Zaister]

Can't you just stock up on batteries and recharge your armor on the way? Or am I missing something here?

[pithica42]

Recharging armor isn't the same as recharging other stuff. It's actually refilling O2 tanks and stuff, not just power.

[Zaister]

OK, I guess that makes sense.

[Johann Weiss]

Glad I didn't miss anything. It sounded like the players were going to try camping in the day and travelling at night (all but one have dark vision). Still deciding exactly how I'll deal with that. Thinking they will still have to make daytime checks but only for 6 hours and not 12. And adding some dangers to night travel.

And yes, I think I'll use the suggestion someone else made to have a one way aiudara gate. The players don't know that though so they are prepping for the return trip.

[Rodrigo Herrera Ambriz]

First time posting here, I hope this is the right place to ask for this kind of advice in this situation.

I played the SFS quest arc "Into the Unkown" for my players as an introduction, as none of us have played starfinder before.

with this I played it like they were already members of the society, but after the second part of the first book, where I mistakenly didn't pay them for the job, they exaggeratedly hate the society, like, in an abhorrent way, even though they were paid handsomely for the quest arc.

Also they wanted to explore the acreon and the drift rock before finishing the second part of the book, and asked chiskisk for a ship and a permit to explore them, but I played it off as like the society couldn't get said permit in a timely manner but they were trying to get one nonetheless, so they could still deal with the investigations in Absalon Station. That gave them an image of the Society as a weak organization with no power and corrupt (I don't even know where they got the corruption from).

Now that we're about to start Temple of the Twelve and that the first conversation with Chiskisk implies that they still want to be part of the Society, I don't know how to repair this relationship, or if being part of the Society is that relevant for the rest of the adventure in general.

I cant think of another reason why they hate the Society, they just do, it's absurd.

how can I deal with this situation?

Oh, they also hate Nor for taking away the ship from them, and I don't know if I should've done it, but made it like the Commander Eskolar just got up and left with the ship as they just forgot about it and never moved it anywhere.

What I was thinking was giving a late payment for the investigation, and a plus for cleaning up the Acreon and the Drift Rock from the Society, even though that was an agreement with Nor who now they also hate too.

Or I'm just portraying these NPCs poorly?

[Jason Keeley]

For Dead Suns, we used the Starfinder Society as a patron because this was the first AP and we wanted to make sure the PCs knew that the Society was an important part of the setting. They exist as connective tissue for the 6 adventures to make sure the characters have an idea of what to do next if the players get stymied.

If your PCs don't like the Society, you don't have to pressure them to continue to "work for" Chiskisk. Hopefully, they are curious enough about what they found on the Drift Rock to propel them forward. If not, you can always find another patron. Is there an organization in the PCs' backgrounds that have the resources to help them out? Perhaps they made such a splash on the vids they accidentally starred in that a big reality show producer wants to continue to film them?

As for Nor, its perfectly fine if the PCs don't trust him. His motives are his own and he doesn't go out of his way to make himself the PCs' friend.

[Rodrigo Herrera Ambriz]

Jason Keeley wrote:

For Dead Suns, we used the Starfinder Society as a patron because this was the first AP and we wanted to make sure the PCs knew that the Society was an important part of the setting. They exist as connective tissue for the 6 adventures to make sure the characters have an idea of what to do next if the players get stymied.

If your PCs don't like the Society, you don't have to pressure them to continue to "work for" Chiskisk. Hopefully, they are curious enough about what they found on the Drift Rock to propel them forward. If not, you can always find another patron. Is there an organization in the PCs' backgrounds that have the resources to help them out? Perhaps they made such a splash on the vids they accidentally starred in that a big reality show producer wants to continue to film them?

As for Nor, its perfectly fine if the PCs don't trust him. His motives are his own and he doesn't go out of his way to make himself the PCs' friend.

OF COURSE! One of them have a Steward father MIA after following a corpse fleet lead in the pact worlds, he trusts the Stewards, I can use that.

I can even make the Stewards ask for the contact in Castrovel to the society showing a healthy and trustworthy relationship between both organizations.

[pithica42]

The relationship with Nor does come up (at least) one other time in the AP in DS3. In that module, if they have a good relationship with him, he provides some tangential help in the background. You can always switch this up to some other organization if you don't want to punish your players, but it's something to keep in mind for when/if you make it that far.

[Rodrigo Herrera Ambriz]

pithica42 wrote:

The relationship with Nor does come up (at least) one other time in the AP in DS3. In that module, if they have a good relationship with him, he provides some tangential help in the background. You can always switch this up to some other organization if you don't want to punish your players, but it's something to keep in mind for when/if you make it that far.

Yeah, in this book it says that this relationship affects the players in the future, but sincerely I want to punish them, just because they cease to trust anyone for simple mistakes and overreact to any situation they just simply deem not just for them, they don't ask why stuff happens nor try to diplomatically amend relationships or situations, they just start hating immediately.

.. I don't get them.

[pithica42]

Then, when you get to it, make special note of the interactions with the ghoul bureaucrat in Splintered Worlds in about the middle of the AP. If your players have a bad interaction with Nor, she's supposed to be very unhelpful (because he essentially asks her to punish the characters).

[Jason Keeley]

Rodrigo Herrera Ambriz wrote:

Jason Keeley wrote:

For Dead Suns, we used the Starfinder Society as a patron because this was the first AP and we wanted to make sure the PCs knew that the Society was an important part of the setting. They exist as connective tissue for the 6 adventures to make sure the characters have an idea of what to do next if the players get stymied.

If your PCs don't like the Society, you don't have to pressure them to continue to "work for" Chiskisk. Hopefully, they are curious enough about what they found on the Drift Rock to propel them forward. If not, you can always find another patron. Is there an organization in the PCs' backgrounds that have the resources to help them out? Perhaps they made such a splash on the vids they accidentally starred in that a big reality show producer wants to continue to film them?

As for Nor, its perfectly fine if the PCs don't trust him. His motives are his own and he doesn't go out of his way to make himself the PCs' friend.

OF COURSE! One of them have a Steward father MIA after following a corpse fleet lead in the pact worlds, he trusts the Stewards, I can use that.

I can even make the Stewards ask for the contact in Castrovel to the society showing a healthy and trustworthy relationship between both organizations.

Just an FYI that if you plan to use the Stewards for your Dead Suns campaign that

Spoiler for Against the Aeon Throne:

the Stewards are pretty much the patrons for Against the Aeon Throne, so if you plan to run that AP as well, things might feel too "samey" for your players.

Ultimately though its your game and that sounds like a fine plan!

[Brother Willi]

Zaister wrote:

Can't you just stock up on batteries and recharge your armor on the way? Or am I missing something here?

When we reviewed the rules it appeared that armor needed more than batteries to recharge; hence why Turhalu point has some to top the players off before they go.

When my group took a few minutes to research Ukulam I telegraphed that it was the hot season, full of wildlife, and prone to storms of various types. They took the hint and all purchased Mobile Hoteliers. I am glad to reward them for this kind of smart thinking. That being said, if they made the right checks I might let them jury rig the Hotelier to recharge their armor (based solely on scenes from The Martian).

Further, I have not made them make Fortitude Saves for travelling at night/early morning. This has limited the number of saves they have had to make and during the hot days - when they've failed a few saves-they pop into their tent and leave someone in armor to keep watch.

Overall, my goal is to not force them to the breaking point of stamina each day, but rather reward them for smart playing when dealing with environmental hazards.

[Paris Crenshaw]

Are any of you GMs using the Urban Sprawl flip map to represent the scene at the Five Arches restaurant? I'd like to get some use out of my maps and the "greener" side of that one has the right feel. Unfortunately, none of the locations really look like restaurants. Just curious about what other folks are doing to run that scene.

[Magabeus]

I used the cantina flipmat for that scene.

[John Compton]

Magabeus wrote:

I used the cantina flipmat for that scene.

It's a good choice, and it's the map I had in mind when writing the scene.

[Magabeus]

John Compton wrote:

Magabeus wrote:

I used the cantina flipmat for that scene.

It's a good choice, and it's the map I had in mind when writing the scene.

My players resolved this encounter without combat in the Five Arches, which led one of them to comment "this is the third time I have seen this flipmat on the table, and it is the third time there is no combat on it"

[Paris Crenshaw]

John Compton wrote:

Magabeus wrote:

I used the cantina flipmat for that scene.

It's a good choice, and it's the map I had in mind when writing the scene.

Good to know! Thanks for the suggestion and confirmation!

[Commodore_RB]

Magabeus wrote:

John Compton wrote:

Magabeus wrote:

I used the cantina flipmat for that scene.

It's a good choice, and it's the map I had in mind when writing the scene.

My players resolved this encounter without combat in the Five Arches, which led one of them to comment "this is the third time I have seen this flipmat on the table, and it is the third time there is no combat on it"

Thank goodness it's resolvable without combat, as our group decided to split three ways during the investigation. My operative and his envoy buddy managed to combine bluffs, intimidates, and stealth to get the contact's information while having him call off his heavies. Last time Dart Interobang, Ysoki envoy and cookbook writer, ever managed subtlety.

[gustavo iglesias]

Magabeus wrote:

Your players should have sufficient stamina (at least 15 for a technomancer without Con modifier) to be able to withstand quite some hours of hot weather conditions. Even with failing every save they should be able (on average) to cover 6 hours before they start to go into hitpoints. If they take a 10 minute rest at lunchtime they will regain their stamina and can march another 6 hours.

If they are planning they can also buy some additional flight suits to give them additional weather protection for 2 days at a price of 95 credits.

My concern is more what I will answer when they tell me they will march at night... I think I will just reverse it to cold in that case.

My problem with this system is you need to do a whole bunch of checks, bookkeep it, a d in the end it will not matter. I'd rather have a system with a single (more difficult?) roll for the day

[Brother Willi]

Magabeus wrote:

My problem with this system is you need to do a whole bunch of checks, bookkeep it, a d in the end it will not matter. I'd rather have a system with a single (more difficult?) roll for the day

The comment about book-keeping is fair. I've been running the section as a travelogue, and so the hour-by-hour check has been more to remind them that they need to rest. The book-keeping is broken up by events and descriptions.

You could probably boil it down to a higher DC check with a higher damage penalty once per day, if you're looking to get through this section more quickly. If the PCs are cautious about travel times, take regular breaks, etc. you can reduce the DC and the damage.

I disagree that it does not matter. I wouldn't eliminate the choice entirely, though. If the PCs ignore the dangers of heat and press on regardless, various encounters will go badly for them (as they would in real life). It makes sense to reward PCs for reacting to the environment and making smart choices, and to punish those who set off into the wilderness unprepared.

[gustavo iglesias]

Well, it does not matter for most of the travel, because of environmental suits, or ever if casters get the awesome Life Bubble spell. Beyond that, it might make you fight a combat or two fatigued, but even that is not sure, as you can rest that away, and you don't hace encounters each day, do you might get fatigued in a non encounter day.

The effect is non-zero, but it is not the hassle of doing 48 rolls in a 12 hour travel day for a party of 4. Multiply that by the number of days, and things become silly really fast. I'm OK with rewarding and punishing players. Heck, make them roll once or die if you want to be extra harsh.

Just don't boggle my game with one hundred + of pointless die rolls.

[richgreen01]

Mudscale wrote:

I like both of those ideas. I have no idea how the Aiudara work but I can treat them as 1 way stargates. NPC will know address but also require some mysticism checks to repair it perhaps, even only good enough for one brief trip.

Then also have the signal as a deus ex machina failsafe.

I've been wondering about this too - using the aiudara in the ruined observatory higher up the mountain seems like a great way to skip an anticlimactic return trip :)

[Nintendogeek01]

Hi, I'm getting ready to run the AP and my preparations for the first book are finished so I'm just getting started on reading the second book.

I wanted to know if the supplies the PC's can get from Turhalu Point were available to them for free or not? I can see why it might be free but it seems to me that an outpost would still need funds to stay supplied when they're far from civilization.

[The Ragi]

The gunnery check for the Iron Rictus is way off - should be +7 or +8 tops.

[Brother Willi]

Nintendogeek01 wrote:

Hi, I'm getting ready to run the AP and my preparations for the first book are finished so I'm just getting started on reading the second book.

I wanted to know if the supplies the PC's can get from Turhalu Point were available to them for free or not? I can see why it might be free but it seems to me that an outpost would still need funds to stay supplied when they're far from civilization.

The resources are supposed to be free. The outpost is funded by various entities, including Qabarat University. The University, in turn, is willing to fund the rescue party to save Dr. Solstarni - unless your party has cut ties with the university. The outpost's basic resources are a stop-gap if your party didn't buy their own gear before heading out.

[C.Scott Franklin]

I have something I would like to share on the forum here but can't figure out how to add an attachment to my post. Can one of you guys help?

[C.Scott Franklin]

I think I may have figured it out...not 100% sure.

My first attempt at creating something here. I was concerned with trying to keep up with the environmental checks also and a "travel log" sounded like a good idea. So I made this for the 12 day trek to help me out. Maybe it will help some of you out also or maybe it sucks but like I said first attempt here so be kind :) Feel free to print it off and use if you wish. I printed at as a full page slide and it looks good to me. I also included some of the requirements at the bottom so I wouldn't have to keep flipping back and forth in the CRB and a few spaces to fill in appropriate data for each PC. I tried to color code the pertinent information together so that it would be easier to read quickly.

Hope this is useful.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpnnSQXJ5UK_z1E0fcgHbIBvZUUDqvN3/view?usp= sharing

[Black Dow]

C.Scott Franklin wrote:

I think I may have figured it out...not 100% sure.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vpnnSQXJ5UK_z1E0fcgHbIBvZUUDqvN3/view?usp= sharing

Fixed it for you chief:

C.Scott Franklin's Wilderness Trek Chart

Just noticed the "how to format your text" dropdown isn't working for me... otherwise I'd have directed you there :)

[C.Scott Franklin]

Mine wasn't working either so that was a shot in the dark for me. Thanks for your help.

[C.Scott Franklin]

Also when you look at the chart it does have 12 boxes under each day to track pass/fail/or NA or however you want to track the checks. It just doesn't appear that way when you view it but they are there if you print it.

[The Ragi]

To help creating mood and immersion, I like to show the art from the adventure path to my players, whenever they reach the appropriate part of the narrative.

Although the Temple of the Twelve book has a lot of art from all over Castrovel, the Ukulam jungle proper kinda got the short end of the stick. Most of the landmarks are represented, but other than the Ksarik fight on the cover and the Yaruk stampede (what is Tahomen doing there?), we don't really get a good view of what is going on there in a regular basis.

Some “alien jungle” searches later, I came up with the following portfolio:

Weird forest with giant mushrooms

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Gy4a3

https://jkroots.deviantart.com/art/Mushroom-Forest-321321858

Colorful alien jungle

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/LBLeP

https://frenzygator.deviantart.com/art/Alien-jungle-color-mood-568258133

After the moldstorm!

https://ahaas.deviantart.com/art/Alien-Jungle-446333107

[pithica42]

Those pics are awesome. Thanks for posting them.

[Dice Versa Nick]

I'm a bit confused about the encounter(s) around the Stargazer...

It says that Salask uses the Stealth skill to perform the sniping task, and according to the CRB using Stealth to snipe gives the Stealth check to stay hidden after attacking a -20 penalty (p.148).

Salask's stealth is 0, so she will automatically fail her stealth checks...

However, she also has the Expert Sniper special ability that could arguably cancel out the Stealth penalty from sniping, but only if the PCs are attempting Perception checks to spot her from least 150 ft away (otherwise it only reduces the penalty to -10).

This seems like an overly complex way to calculate if the PCs notice Salask or not, and it seems like it will be pretty easy for PCs to spot her considering the best-case scenario for her Stealth is a flat d20 without any modifiers... how did you all handle this encounter?

[GeneticDrift]

Per page 25, Salask has a decent stealth bonus in their stat block.

[Chris Marsh]

Is there someplace where the actual effects of the "free admission into the university" are found, or is that just a flavor reward?

[Dice Versa Nick]

GeneticDrift wrote:

Per page 25, Salask has a decent stealth bonus in their stat block.

Doh!

Not sure how I missed that, maybe the import tool on Roll20 glitched or something. Thanks for pointing it out.

[GeneticDrift]

Chris Marsh wrote:

Is there someplace where the actual effects of the "free admission into the university" are found, or is that just a flavor reward?

I've only skimmed the following books as my players are in the middle of book 2 but it looks like a reward many characters for might like for personal reasons. No direct stated benefit to the adventure.The AP is a bit rushed to take 3 years off but a GM could make it so without any trouble. The players can always take the other option.

[Jonathan Barrett]

RedEric wrote:

Since vehicles are illegal during the wilderness trek, do you think it would be legal for a party to purchase or rent a Shotalashu for the trip?

If so, can anyone suggest a price for renting or buying one? I'm struggling with it because I have nothing to compare it to.

Would there be any penalties for a non-telepathic character handling a Shotalashu, or would they just miss out on the bonuses mentioned for Lashunta mentioned in the telepathic link?

Can anyone think of any other Castrovelian creatures that would be appropriate as mounts or pack animals?

Wouldn't this make it even more likely to prematurely overtake the cultists and ruin the railed plot quite a bit. Even a GM counter of "the baddies also buy mounts" it changes the overland speed and endurance checks along the way reducing time and danger and at the end, makes for a pretty nice haul to gather and return the mounts the enemy used. Not to mention the burning question, what if the players actually catch up to the cultists, even if it's just on the day they arrived at the Tot12?

[Jonathan Barrett]

KarmaKollapse wrote:

I was skeptical about the university stuff. I was worried the stuff with the journalists would grind the game to a bit of a halt... so I had some angry formian terrorists break into the uni wanting to get reprisal for the xenophobic rant Ailabeins made. It eased the scene a bit, got a police officer in the building, gave the journalists some reason to interact with the players, and introduced a new sub-plot I can bring in later. When they ended up talking to Nuhali, I still made her uneager to interact with the players (I played her as an overworked, jaded woman with more important things on her mind, like the terrorist attack in her foyer), but she happily agrees to give the players access to Solstarni's office. Whilst she was looking for the keycard.... the players went to Ailabein's to talk to him about what he had said anyways. Ailabein's attitude is much harder to defend when there has already been consequences to his actions. Everything in the book ultimately played out, just there was an added combat (the players were really happy about the roleplay/combat balance in that session, which also included the smugglers, who recognised the players from news reports of the terrorist incident and were alerted very early that they were being investigated).

---

I had a question about the Yaruk encounter at the start of Act 2: do other GMS run it as purely narrative, or do you treat it as a mini-game and set out the actions for players before hand? I feel the encounter is necessary (the players are massively excited about Ukulem, to the point of singing the Jurassic Park theme at the mere mention of creatures like the Yaruks), but I've never had great luck with running encounters like this where it is expected that the players do actions from a particular list, whilst randomly receiving damage. I wonder what approach everyone else takes?

Also, is Oatian culture described in more detail anywhere but here? After this adventure we'll be doing more homebrew stuff, so I was thinking of making the 'piece of...

So... you rewrote the extended encounter? I like your solution and creative thinking, but this pokes at a major problem in the whole AP...lack of options, at least lack of prepared optional outcomes.

[Paris Crenshaw]

I finally got around to updating these. The shipsheets below include every ship involved in combat presented throughout the AP. The DCs are calculated based on the premise that the PCs' ship's tier will be equivalent to the APL recommended at that part of the campaign.

Dead Suns Shipsheets (DS 1-6).PDF

There are lots of numbers to juggle, here, so I may have made some errors. Please let me know if you find any mistakes.

Thanks!

[The Ragi]

“Once freed, Dr. Solstarni can keep up with the PCs, though
she’s not a reliable combatant. If necessary, you can use the
statistics for a Devourer cultist with no special abilities.”

Or... here’s my suggestion for her stat block:

Olmehya Solstarni Wehir of House Raimar, Echo of Inshirsi’s Dream
NG Medium humanoid (kasatha)
Init +1; Perception +5

DEFENSE______________________________
HP 17
EAC 11; KAC 12
Fort +1; Ref +3; Will +4

OFFENSE______________________________
Speed 30 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +4 (1d4+1 B)
Ranged ??? +6 (1d4+1)

STATISTICS____________________________
Str +0; Dex +1; Con +1; Int +4; Wis +2; Cha +0
Skills Acrobatics +10, Athletics +10, Computers +5, Culture +5, Life Science +10, Mysticism +10, Perception +5, Physical Science +10, Profession (archaeologist) +5
Languages Castrovelian, Common, Kasatha, Elven
Other Abilities dive for cover, desert stride, four-armed
Gear archaeologist’s tools, binders x2, travel clothing

[Nintendogeek01]

Well the number of players in my group increased due to circumstances beyond my ability to predict... and now I need to adjust for six players. I'll worry about the other books later but for now I'd appreciate it if anyone could double-check me here on the current adjustments I'm thinking of doing.

For the Stargazer I'm planning on bumping up Salask one more CR, and then adding one extra ksarik at the end for a total of three ksariks.

For the temple of the twelve I was thinking of replacing the adolescent Mountain Eel with a full grown one (going up a CR basically). Though... alternatively I suppose increasing the story award for reaching the temple and leaving the eel alone would make Panellier still stronger than the eel... hm...

Later in the temple I'm thinking of bumping up Avissa a CR, and lastly bumping up Tahomen an extra CR and giving him a total of four mooks instead of two.

By my math this should give the group precisely as much XP as needed to reach level 5 at the end of this adventure, but I'm as concerned, if not more so, about these adjustments maintaining their appropriate difficulty for a group of six. Thoughts?

[GeneticDrift]

My pcs were done with ksariks by then so i swapped in a different opponent of the same cr.

Panellier was a very tough fight for my 4 player party.
If your pcs don't have command undead yet and really dont want to fight Panellier you could have the nearby enemy group join the fight and accidentally break the spell with a grenade.

Avvisa wasn't much of a mini boss. My pcs rested before fighting Tahomen. After the rest, Tahomen, two grunts, with the two guardians (i forgot about them being in the temple) was just about perfect for the 4 pcs (hurl force disk was great).

All in all your adjustments dont seem to put the large party at a significant risk of tpk.