Inspired weapon property and critical hits


Rules Questions


Inspiration:
An investigator is beyond knowledgeable and skilled—he also possesses keen powers of observation and deduction that far surpass the abilities of others. An investigator typically uses these powers to aid in their investigations, but can also use these flashes of inspiration in other situations.

An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration. The investigator has an inspiration pool equal to 1/2 his investigator level + his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). An investigator’s inspiration pool refreshes each day, typically after he gets a restful night’s sleep. As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. The investigator can use inspiration on any Knowledge, Linguistics, or Spellcraft skill checks without expending a use of inspiration, provided he’s trained in the skill.

Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration each time from the investigator’s pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.

Combat Inspiration:
When an investigator uses inspiration on an attack roll or saving throw, he expends one use of inspiration instead of two.

Inspired:
This special ability can be placed only on simple weapons, hand crossbows, rapiers, shortbows, short swords, and sword canes. In the hands of an investigator, an inspired weapon reduces the cost of using inspiration on attack rolls made with the weapon. The weapon’s wielder needs to expend only one use of inspiration to augment his attack rolls with this weapon, as with the combat inspiration investigator talent. If the wielder already has the combat inspiration talent, the wielder must still expend one use of inspiration, but in addition to adding the result of the inspiration roll to the attack roll, the investigator adds twice the result of the inspiration roll to the weapon’s damage roll.

On Critical Hits:
...
Precision damage (such as from a rogue’s sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.
...

My questions are: the damage provided from the Inspired weapon property is considered an additional damage dice? Although that die is rolled in the attack roll instead of damage roll? if it isn't an additional damage roll, is it an additional flat damage? if it is an additional flat damage, is it multiplied on a critical hit like all the other flat values to damage (precision damage as exception)?


It's to hit so for criticals it won't matter. Damage and to hit are not the same thing.

However for additional dice for damage there are very few exceptions to the rule that dice added on aren't multiplied and flat numbers are. Those exceptions are listed as such.


Cavall said wrote:
It's to hit so for criticals it won't matter. Damage and to hit are not the same thing.

With the Inspired weapon property you can add twice the result of the inspiration roll to damage. That is the damage that i want to know how is treated


Then it's a flat amount.


I'm pretty sure it is extra dice of damage and is not multiplied by a critical hit.


Question: Is the extra damage provided by an Inspired weapon multiplied on a critical hit?


I always assumed you would double it on a crit. Nearly every type of damage that can't be doubled tells you it can't be, and this one says nothing. Not proof by any means, but that's how it seemed to me...?


MrCharisma wrote:
I always assumed you would double it on a crit. Nearly every type of damage that can't be doubled tells you it can't be, and this one says nothing. Not proof by any means, but that's how it seemed to me...?

I believe the rationale would be that since you are multiplying damage from extra dice, it is extra damage dice* from a special weapon quality so you don't get anything out of a crit.

It is a bit of a gray zone though.

*I am assuming that "damage equal to dice"="damage dice"


Well my reasoning is you're adding an amount equal to double something. You're not rolling that damage amount.

So to me it's not rolled. Just double something that is rolled for a totally different roll.

To me that's a flat amount. Flat amounts get double on crits


You're not adding inspiration dice to damage. You roll a number for attack rolls, then double the result for damage. Thus, you roll a dice for attack, but receive a static value for damage. This static value gets multiplied on crits, as all static values do.


Snowblind wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
I always assumed you would double it on a crit. Nearly every type of damage that can't be doubled tells you it can't be, and this one says nothing. Not proof by any means, but that's how it seemed to me...?

I believe the rationale would be that since you are multiplying damage from extra dice, it is extra damage dice* from a special weapon quality so you don't get anything out of a crit.

It is a bit of a gray zone though.

*I am assuming that "damage equal to dice"="damage dice"

Yeah that checks out too. I can honestly understand both sides of the argument here ... hmmm...

Has anyone ever used this in PFS? If so how was it ruled there?


Anything new on this?


SubiculumHammer wrote:
Anything new on this?

Nothing new that I've heard of, but I just re-read all the relevant material and I've come up with a new question to make things more complicated:

If it DOES crit, then how would it multiply? Would it double the whole lot for 1d6 X 4 damage*? Or since Double X Double = Triple in Pathfinder would it be 1d6 X 3 damage* instead? (this would be a kind-of compromise if your group can't decide, since it's likely half way between what both sides of the argument would want)

*Assuming a X2 crit-multiplier. Change these numbers accordingly if you're using higher crit-multiplier weapons.

Liberty's Edge

Inspired weapon wrote:

f the wielder already has the combat inspiration talent, the wielder must still expend one use of inspiration, but in addition to adding the result of the inspiration roll to the attack roll, the investigator adds twice the result of the inspiration roll to the weapon’s damage roll.

Critical hit wrote:
A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

As I see it, you add the effect of Inspired weapon after you have made the damage roll with all its bonuses. So if you get a critical you roll the weapon damage roll, i.e. x2 the damage die+the bonuses and then you add the inspired weapon effect. It is not multiplied by a critical.

Without a official interpretation both interpretations are possible.


The investigator's primary bonuses to damage, studied combat and studied strike, are classified as precision damage. If we ever get a ruling, I'd bet that this "inspired" damage will be classified as precision as well.

This issue applies to Manyshot as well.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Inspired weapon property and critical hits All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions