Sanjiv |
I want to be able to hint to my players that a splinter group of thieves are actually noble group of secret agent good-guys. One way to do this would be to have one of the thieves be a paladin who could bust out recognizable paladin powers. The lay-on-hands and cha-bonus to AC would be especially useful if the PCs are about to TPK this underpowered but information-rich NPC group. The idea is to give the players a hint, but not give the NPC group plot-armor.
So I want to have at least one of this crew be a paladin, but I feel the traditional paladin class will have to be changed a bit. It's important to me that these NPC thieves be more like stealthy thieves and not brutal bandits. I'd also like them to appear more scrappy and under-dog esque, because while they may be cool and involved in dire work, they won't succeed without the players.
So I was thinking about some hybrid between paladin and rogue, or paladin and monk.
I feel that for a paladin to tolerate being among thieves he'd have to be very quite and subdued, minding his own business and trying to get away with acts of goodness as much as he was able hoping his fellow thieves didn't object. This would mean spending much time helping or healing others on the fringe, and spending more time within himself rather the engaging with the corrupt world around him.
I don't expect this character was formally trained as a paladin, but that he came to this path naturally and spontaneously due to his own nature and devotion. This is the whole 'unexpected underdog' thing. And for that reason I'm imagining a character more like a monk.
But a paladin who can do sneak attack damage would definitely surprise players and give them something to gawk about, and often times I think that's basically half the job of the GM.
Am I overthinking the need to make a fusion class? Could I realize this character concept simply through multi-classing a paladin, monk, and rogue? Or is there a vigilante archetype I should consider?
Dave Justus |
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First off, as far as I know those powers are not unique to paladins, so just because a player character sees someone laying on hands, they won't know that the person is a paladin.
Rather than using class abilities to show a groups morality, I suggest you use their actions. Show them doing some good and unselfish things, and your players will wonder. Conversely, evidence that their targets are bad guys can provide clues that they may not be what they seem.
Assuming that the group is actually noble good guys, and what they are opposing needs to be opposed in secret (usually because the legal system is corrupt) then their is no reason a standard paladin couldn't participate in 'thievery' and he wouldn't have to look the other way or not participate. If one the other hand, the theives aren't really good and what they are doing isn't justified, 'minding your own business' isn't going to save a Paladin helping them out from a fall.
The Sideromancer |
How knowledgeable is your party? religion DC 15 to know the tenants of a common deity, DC 20 to notice an obscure symbol. Maybe have the NPC be a follower of the empyreal lord Kelinahat.
Douglas Muir 406 |
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Digging deep into the archives, here's a character concept I came up with years ago: Straight Charlie, the accidental paladin. If that seems like it might work for you, please take it away! You might want to add another paladin level or two -- it's really up to you.
Doug M.
marcryser |
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My very first D&D 3.0 character was a street urchin who fell in with a band of thieves and got 'adopted' and 'trained' to be a 2nd story man. It was his job to climb to the less protected windows and then let the gang in through a door. One of the jobs went bad pretty early on because the gang leader bit off more than the gang could chew. We tried to rob a church of Pelor (it would probably be Sarenrae or Iomedae in a Golarion setting) and the clerics proved more than a match for the rogues. I was captured, tried, and convicted and remanded to the custody of the temple.
Eventually, after many baths, many lessons, and many stern lectures, I was released from custody and took vows (as a layman monk) who became a church guardian. Two levels of fighter later, I had reached my majority and was allowed to take vows as part of the church's militant arm. From that day forward (level5-Level 16), I took levels in Paladin.
I had no problem being lawful good and stealthy at the same time. I didn't worry that I had once been a thief or that ambush was dishonorable in the eyes of some with a more 'typical' upbringing. When it was necessary to kill someone in the service of good, I did it as quickly and efficiently as possible so as to minimize risk to myself and companions.
lemeres |
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Iroran paladins seem like they could do well.
They get to write their own moral codes, which means you can make something a bit more....flexible.... morally. I would likely aim for an undercover agent style paladin that joins with thieves so he can get the hidden information about various things like slave rings, drug networks, demon cults, etc. (Obviously, this could still get normal thieves to be part of the operation since the people involved likely have a lot of money, possibly hidden in the same place as their incriminating documents).
You have a set of rules (and you are thus lawful), but it is a set of rules that acknowledges taht sometimes work has to be done in the shadows. Heck, you order could be a team of divine SWAT/seal team members.
Additionally, an iroran paladin is a better mechanical match for this kind of thing. They can add both CHA and dex to AC when in light armor- which means you can go with a nice, sneaky build without dropping AC. They also replace smite evil with something more modest (+1 to +7 to attack, damage, and AC against the target), but it is not alignment restricted (so you could take on innocent, neutral guards and golems without much problem.... but maybe get something to do nonlethal...)
A dip into shadow dancer might work well too- you get hide in plain sight without going far out of your way.
UnArcaneElection |
Just use the Gray Paladin archetype.
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Unfortunately, while the flavor of Gray Paladin is not bad, the mechanics are underwhelming.
Another possibility is to go Rogue/Ninja/Slayer/Investigator (pick one and stick with it unless you want to add a prestige class) VMC Paladin. Unfortunately, the mechanics of this are underwhelming as well, but at least you get the full benefit of leveling in only your primary class and whichever of its archetypes you want (or combination of part of that with a prestige class, if desired).