Dasrak |
An 8th level NPC Sorcerer is CR 7. Four of these Sorcerers adds up to a CR 11 encounter. An 8th level Sorcerer can easily have access to the Fly and Invisibility spells, allowing them to sneak up the party in any outdoors area and gain a surprise round. With relatively little optimization you can get their fireball spell to well over 50 damage per hit. Even if the players save, they're still looking at over 100 points of damage on the surprise round alone. This will likely kill the majority of the party.
JDLPF |
I'll just throw my creation Eglian into the ring. He has a pair of house rules (almost everything stacks), and he's only "CR 5," but through little loopholes and clever application of templates, I'm about 99% sure he's realistically closer to CR 50.
Given that you're using a 144 racial point custom race and cheesing into it using shapechanging, I'm not really sure I'd count this as rules legal.
Dαedαlus |
Oh, that? That's small change. I'm referring more to Mythic, which gives me 20th-level casting and at-will Wish as an SLA.
But, other than the aforementioned house rule of stacking, it's all RAW. RAI? Not in a long shot. But it's all RAW (unless I made a math error somewhere or something like that).
Besides, most of those points were spent on increasing land speed (hardly needed for the shape, more of just poking fun at the Race building system)
JDLPF |
To answer the original question of the thread, I'm gonna quickly dump a 12th level Inquisitor NPC I built for my home game as an example of a totally rules legal but extremely unfair CR 11 encounter. It's got standard NPC WBL and stats, no funny business whatsoever.
Note this is a burst damage Assassin build, so it assumes time to prepare spells before combat. I'd strongly recommend you don't use this NPC in a real game unless a PC death isn't much more than a minor setback.
The attack is +25/+25/+25/+20 on a full attack from invisibility, and damage is +52 on the first arrow and +26 on subsequent shots. That's not including bane damage and arrow dice, just straight flat damage. Assuming all arrows hit in the first full attack, they'd put out an average of 96 damage with the first arrow and 48 damage on the rest, for a single round damage output of 288 average damage.
This is all theorycraft of course, but it's a general summary of how stacking bonuses can lead to brutal damage output.
Female Human Inquisitor (CR 11)
Size/Type: Medium humanoid (human)
Hit Dice: hp 105 (12d8+36+12 temp)
Initiative/Senses: Init +11; Perception +19; See Invisibility
Speed: Speed 40 ft.
Armor Class: AC 26, touch 19, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +4 deflection, +5 Dex)
Base Attack/CMB/CMD: Base Atk +9; CMB +11; CMD 26
Attack:
Melee heavy mace +20/+15 (1d6+6) (includes buffs)
Ranged longbow +27 (1d8+26+5d6+1 bleed/19-20x3)
Full attack longbow +25 (2d8+52+10d6+2 bleed/19-20x3)
+25/+25/+20 (1d8+26+5d6+1 bleed/19-20x3) (+2d10+shaken 1 round on crit)
Space/Reach: Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.; Range 110 ft.
Special Attacks: Judgement, Greater Bane (12 rounds)
Special Qualities: Travel Domain; Detect Alignment (At Will); Discern Lies (12 rounds)
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +13 (Stalwart)
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Disguise +27, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (Religion) +18, Perception +19, Sense Motive +14, Spellcraft +16, Stealth +21 (ACP: -1)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Improved Initiative, Manyshot, Toughness, Step Up, Friendly Fire Maneuvers, Coordinated Shot, Target of Opportunity, Volley Fire
Equipment: +2 composite +2 Str longbow, +1 mithral breastplate, headband of inspired wisdom +2, efficient quiver, heavy mace, inquisitor’s kit, 160 arrows, potion of fly, scroll of true strike, scroll of silence, scroll of dimensional anchor, tanglefoot bag
Alignment/Languages: LE; Common
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +14)
4th (3/day)--death ward, divine power, freedom of movement, greater invisibility
3rd (4/day)--bloody arrows, burst of speed, heroism, raven’s flight
2nd (6/day)--flames of the faithful, invisibility, resist energy, see invisibility, weapon of awe
1st (6/day)--cure light wounds, disguise self, expeditious retreat, shield of faith, shield of fortification, wrath
0th--detect magic, guidance, light, read magic, resistance, virtue
Tactics
Before Battle: Cast Freedom of Movement (2 hours), Heroism (2 hours), See Invisibility (2 hours), Disguise Self (11 minutes), Weapon of Awe (11 minutes), Expeditious Retreat (11 minutes), Shield of Faith (11 minutes), Shield of Fortification (11 minutes), Invisibility (11 minutes)
During Battle: Scout and cast Resistance (7 rounds), Wrath (8 rounds), Flames of the Faithful (9 rounds), Bloody Arrows (10 rounds), Divine Power (11 rounds), Greater Invisibility (12 rounds) and Greater Bane (12 rounds), then attack in the surprise round and activate Judgement. If cornered in melee, then use Burst of Speed or Raven’s Flight as a swift action before withdrawing.
Bow Attack: 9 BAB +2 enhancement +5 Dex +4 luck (Divine Power) +3 morale (Wrath) +2 (invisible) +2 (Greater Bane) +3 profane (Judgement) -3 (Deadly Aim) = 27, +conditional modifiers per teamwork feats
Bow Damage: +2 enhancement +2 Str +4 luck (Divine Power) +3 morale (Wrath) +2 (Greater Bane) +5 profane (Judgement) +2 sacred (Weapon of Awe) +6 (Deadly Aim) +4d6 (Greater Bane) +1d6 fire (Flames of the Faithful) +1 bleed (Bloody Arrows, stacks up to 5)
Eltacolibre |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Don't need to be super fancy:
Dark room, no source of light:
3 Shadow Demons (CR 10)
+1 for favorable terrain (darkness)
= CR 11
Shadow demons are in general pretty hard, they take half damage from all almost all sources, have damage reduction and energy resistances, can cast any spells that you need for a situation with shadow evocation/shadow conjuration.
With a trio, you can do a bunch of fun things, Summoning monsters, creating walls, forcing group of enemies between walls, and then raining shadow evocation attacks/fireballs while enemies can't move etc...
They can pounce, sprint, become invisible as a round action in any places with less than bright light.
Paradozen |
2 Animate Dreams in a Labyrinth is CR 11 (2 CR 8 and favorable terrain). Flyby attack with touch attacks alone can kill, and then you have Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, Fear, and Deep Slumber to divide the party in a maze. Make sure to drift through walls so they can't be targeted in return. Also, lead with the touch attacks to soften will saves (and use fatigue to prevent barbarian rage).
demontroll |
CR 11 is 12800 XP. A level 1 Sorcerer is 200 XP. So that is 12800/200 = 64 level 1 Sorcerers. Each sorcerer knows magic missile, which if they all cast it does 64 x (1d4+1) = 224 automatic damage per round. They can focus fire one target at a time. Ideally they are in a large room where they can spread out to avoid area attacks and to take advantage of using ranged attacks.
A shadow is CR 3, uses a +4 touch attack and does 1d6 STR damage, and at 0 STR the character dies. 12800/800 = 16 Shadows. Shadows are so broken.
Rust Monsters are also CR 3. They won't kill the group, but nothing invokes fear in the Players like a Rust Monster. Have a pit trap combined with a dispel magic targeting flight. Victims fall into a pit full of hungry Rust Monsters.
Paradozen |
11th level sorc
effective charisma of 28
11 levels +11
spell specialization +2
mage tattoo +1
prayer beads +4
orange prism +1
fireball 19th caster levelsurprise round
1 empowered persistent fireball 28d6+84 damage
1 quickened fireball 19d6+57 damagefor 305 average damage, 423 if you roll max
Quick note, this only works if you can get passes the 10d6 fireball cap, so the Blood Intensity bloodline mutation is needed to allow for a 19d6 fireball.
Dasrak |
There's plenty of room for Blood Intensity, so it's a minor oversight that Lady-J did not mention it. The bigger problem is that Lady-J's Sorcerer would be CR 12, not 11. While there is no hard rule on NPC's with non-standard arrays or wealth, the precedent set by Paizo-published adventures is that it's +1 CR for PC wealth and +1 CR for 25 point buy. This Sorcerer build requires both, so it gets a +2 CR adjustment.
Lady-J |
There's plenty of room for Blood Intensity, so it's a minor oversight that Lady-J did not mention it. The bigger problem is that Lady-J's Sorcerer would be CR 12, not 11. While there is no hard rule on NPC's with non-standard arrays or wealth, the precedent set by Paizo-published adventures is that it's +1 CR for PC wealth and +1 CR for 25 point buy. This Sorcerer build requires both, so it gets a +2 CR adjustment.
no point buy, rolling plus they never said it had to be an npc just a cr 11 encounter that can kill player characters so i shared one of my pc's
Dasrak |
no point buy, rolling plus they never said it had to be an npc just a cr 11 encounter that can kill player characters so i shared one of my pc's
None of that changes the fact that as an encounter this character would be CR 12.
To determine what the CR of this character would be, we must use the rules for NPC CR then modify accordingly for the differences between your PC and an NPC. An NPC with PC class levels has a CR equal to his level - 1. So an 11th level NPC would be CR 10. However, NPC's are supposed to use the heroic array (highest stat is 15 before racial bonus - yes, NPC's are that bad) and NPC wealth (which, at 11th level, would be 16,350 gp). Your character deviates from both of these quite substantially, and the precedent for each such deviation is +1 CR on each account. This pushes the total CR of the character to 12.
Paradozen |
2 Animate Dreams in a Labyrinth is CR 11 (2 CR 8 and favorable terrain). Flyby attack with touch attacks alone can kill, and then you have Confusion, Phantasmal Killer, Fear, and Deep Slumber to divide the party in a maze. Make sure to drift through walls so they can't be targeted in return. Also, lead with the touch attacks to soften will saves (and use fatigue to prevent barbarian rage).
An equally nasty variant can be attained with a Color Out of Space, which takes longer but leaves PCs more dead, or with a pair of young witchfires (if you swap a feat for shot on the run).
Paradozen |
And for my final entry. 4 Giant (template) Cyclopes and a 7th level Evangelist with the Destruction Domain. Cleric needs Sandals of Quick Reactions, and Battle Cry (dirty tactics toolbox). After that they need favorable terrain (ambush conditions). Really favorable at that (need to be able to hide 4 huge creatures reliably).
Surprise Round, Cleric breaks stealth to use Inspire Courage (move) and Destructive Aura (standard). Cyclopes charge in, use flash of insight, and automatically crit for 12d6+66 each (3*(4d6+10Str+6PA+3competence+3morale)). Average is 108. Not the most damage from a surprise round, but still likely enough to take out the casters and put the melee in dire straights (assuming a party of 4 11th level PCs). For maximum lethal potential have this ambush occur at a time when most buffs aren't up yet, as miss chance is the biggest wrench in the surprise Cyclopes strategy. Overland Flight is less of a concern as long as the conditions put an altitude limit within cyclopes reach.
MichaelCullen |
The party make their way into a castle. The castle has gems all over the place. Many of which have had greater magic aura cast on them to make them appear on magical. Indeed they even start non magical. But... a sorcerer (or wizard) owns this castle. And uses one of the cheapest spells out there. Magic Jar to move his soul to one of the gems. The sorcerer does this from within the basement of the castle, not needing line of effect per the spell. From the gem the sorecerer starts possessing the party, when he possesses a party member, he simply coup de grace's himself and goes back to the gem. Rinse and repeat. Use a persist rod for greater pain.
I3igAl |
A shadow is CR 3, uses a +4 touch attack and does 1d6 STR damage, and at 0 STR the character dies. 12800/800 = 16 Shadows. Shadows are so broken.
If you got a channeling Cleric, and some AoE spells they likely will not reach you though unless you place them in a small corridor and have them surprise attack through the walls.
Sauce987654321 |
Oh, that? That's small change. I'm referring more to Mythic, which gives me 20th-level casting and at-will Wish as an SLA.
But, other than the aforementioned house rule of stacking, it's all RAW. RAI? Not in a long shot. But it's all RAW (unless I made a math error somewhere or something like that).Besides, most of those points were spent on increasing land speed (hardly needed for the shape, more of just poking fun at the Race building system)
What mythic abilities do that?
Anyway, maybe not the strongest CR 11, but a fun one. A colossal animated object (humanoid shaped) with the robot subtype with integrated weapons, such as laser weapons, lol.