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It's extremely ironic that the Swarm, the Pact World's greatest foe, was also the only reason that the Azlanti, the Pact World's OTHER greatest foe, hasn't invaded them.
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It's extremely ironic that the Swarm, the Pact World's greatest foe, was also the only reason that the Azlanti, the Pact World's OTHER greatest foe, hasn't invaded them.
The Azlanti have a pretty bad defensive situation. Their forces are split among 12 core systems, and with the exception of ships with a custom aeon stone headed to the home system, have 5d6 days between systems if they have to counterattack or shift fleets. The Pact Worlds are half as strong overall but only have one core system to defend, so the Pact Worlds are much better defended than any individual Azlanti world. And to the extent they cover protectorates in other star systems, they aren't very important and they have a really fast retreat option to get back home.
If the Azlanti put a big enough offensive force together to attack the Pact Worlds they'd strip their home systems bare and leave themselves wide open to a Vesk attack (or any other strong force) to chop a few of them up.
If the Azlanti can find a way to move between systems quickly without breaking up their fleet, they would take the Pact Worlds without a second thought. But until then, they are waiting for the Swarm instead.
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If the Azlanti can find a way to move between systems quickly without breaking up their fleet, they would take the Pact Worlds without a second thought. But until then, they are waiting for the Swarm instead.
No, they wouldn't risk attrition of a huge part of their fleet to take over a system that is highly developed, highly populated, and would fracture into separate resistances that would require separate pacification campaigns. You'll notice in the Azlanti planet/subject race write ups that every conquered planet/species was isolated, low in population, and/or low tech. Same for the Veskari colony they chopped off.
They're clearly willing to put together 10-20% of the fleet to go take over an easy target to "civilize" and build it up over decades or centuries, but have shown no appetite for big, bloody conquests.
The Vesk could try it at parity because they also only have one highly developed and populated core system to have to defend (it's fair to guess that they're outersystem conquests/colonies are marginal), so focused raids didn't leave their rear area completely open and in the early going they could focus on individual planets instead of the Pact Worlds as a whole. The Azlanti, with only 2+ times as much combat power but 12 economically/militarily important worlds to defend, are in a much different situation against a near peer competitor.
If the Azlanti can find a way to move between systems quickly without breaking up their fleet, they would take the Pact Worlds without a second thought. But until then, they are waiting for the Swarm instead.No, they wouldn't risk attrition of a huge part of their fleet to take over a system that is highly developed, highly populated, and would fracture into separate resistances that would require separate pacification campaigns. You'll notice in the Azlanti planet/subject race write ups that every conquered planet/species was isolated, low in population, and/or low tech. Same for the Veskari colony they chopped off.
They're clearly willing to put together 10-20% of the fleet to go take over an easy target to "civilize" and build it up over decades or centuries, but have shown no appetite for big, bloody conquests.
The Vesk could try it at parity because they also only have one highly developed and populated core system to have to defend (it's fair to guess that they're outersystem conquests/colonies are marginal), so focused raids didn't leave their rear area completely open and in the early going they could focus on individual planets instead of the Pact Worlds as a whole. The Azlanti, with only 2+ times as much combat power but 12 economically/militarily important worlds to defend, are in a much different situation against a near peer competitor.
The issue isn't war of attrition, it is the movement of such a large fleet of ships through the drift is unreliable, and they have a bigger issue to worry about. If they can speed up the movement, or had the time to organize the movement of their ships, they would invade.
If the Azlanti can find a way to move between systems quickly without breaking up their fleet, they would take the Pact Worlds without a second thought. But until then, they are waiting for the Swarm instead.No, they wouldn't risk attrition of a huge part of their fleet to take over a system that is highly developed, highly populated, and would fracture into separate resistances that would require separate pacification campaigns. You'll notice in the Azlanti planet/subject race write ups that every conquered planet/species was isolated, low in population, and/or low tech. Same for the Veskari colony they chopped off.
They're clearly willing to put together 10-20% of the fleet to go take over an easy target to "civilize" and build it up over decades or centuries, but have shown no appetite for big, bloody conquests.
The Vesk could try it at parity because they also only have one highly developed and populated core system to have to defend (it's fair to guess that they're outersystem conquests/colonies are marginal), so focused raids didn't leave their rear area completely open and in the early going they could focus on individual planets instead of the Pact Worlds as a whole. The Azlanti, with only 2+ times as much combat power but 12 economically/militarily important worlds to defend, are in a much different situation against a near peer competitor.
** spoiler omitted **
The issue isn't war of attrition, it is the movement of such a large fleet of ships through the drift is unreliable, and they have a bigger issue to worry about. If they can speed up the movement, or had the time to organize the movement of their ships, they would invade.
Yeah, no. Paizo's writers think that because they're game writers with (apparently) no understanding of military capabilities and strategy. If the described scenario were real, however, (a match or slight better for the combined Pact Worlds/Veskarium forces, but spread out over 12 planets), there's no way the Azlanti would take that big a risk, and pay that big a price, to try to control that many different races in such large numbers.
You can tell how ignorant they are in that section because they talk about the PCs having to defeat a "platoon" (about 40 dudes with zero sustainment/logistics capability if you're talking infantry) who are in charge of the occupation of Abasalom Station, population 2 million plus. I actually LOL'd when I read that.
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Regardless of the specifics of why the situation is the way it is,
I think we can mostly agree The Azlanti situation stands as such:
1) The Empire is big and powerful, they would LOVE and I MEAN LOVE to take back their home system, move that Starstone to their current throne world and possibly figure out a way to turn their noble class in to gods and/or use it's power to found a galactic empire that would make the Imperium of Man from Warhammer look like a quaint, Rhode Island coastal village.
2) The Empire is also probably a little sick and tired of those reptilian savages in the Veskarium who keep shaking their plasma halbreds at the universe and it would be nice to teach that uppity little system some manners on general principle.
3) The main reason why neither of these upstart systems are currently speaking Azlanti is because there is a great big army of marauding bug monsters who are just really hungry and the only thing that keeping the glorious Empire off the menu is the massive fleet of ships between them and the HR Gieger Inspired nightmare currently munching on various sentient species.
4) The entire point of Against the Aeon Throne is that the Azlanti are attempting to overcome that issue, either because Drift Travel sucks or because they would need an edge in a galactic military grudge match. Either way, stopping the Azlanti from being able to win a war or stopping them from outright beating the Swarm and turning their eyes to the rest of the Universe is probably going to take up a lot of our time as players and will more than justify that AP subscription I just made.
All four of these points are wrong. I’ll go into more detail tomorrow.
I agree with point 1, and the book agrees too with "The Azlanti Star Empire aims to be the only power in the galaxy,"
I think point 2 is off, more so the Aeon Throne probably thinks so lowly of the Veskarium it doesn't even come up in thought.
Point 3... I think I need to change my opinion. Looking over the description again, it doesn't actually say that the Azlanti are afraid of them. Just that they know the Swarm exists and they know a fight is coming. Where Veskarium, Pact Worlds, and other races like Draeliks and Wrikreechees are deemed not a threat, so as the book says "so none are potential targets for war—yet."
Point 4. I think we won't see a fight between the Swarm and Aeon Throne. Unless Attack of the Swarm! is in Azlanti territory.
So a side point I want to bring up, we don't actually know the size or capabilities of the Azlanti army. All we know is it is made of three parts, The Imperial Fleet, the Aeon Guard, and the Alien Cohort. And the Imperial Fleet size and numbers are believed to rival the combined fleets of Pact Worlds and Veskarium (only the top members of the Azlanti Empire know for sure), and the biggest ships in the Imperial Fleet outclass any standard ship in either the Pact Worlds or Veskarium.
If the Swarm is heading for the PACT worlds, I could clearly understand why the Azlanti Empire is waiting a bit :D
Anyway, Paizo will never let a single story overwhelm their whole setting. What would be the point of exploring new planets if the universe is at war?
So, they'll come with a Reason, and we will realize the Reason is good, and we will love the Reason. Anyone heard of McGuffin?
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Regardless of the specifics of why the situation is the way it is,
I think we can mostly agree The Azlanti situation stands as such:
1) The Empire is big and powerful, they would LOVE and I MEAN LOVE to take back their home system, move that Starstone to their current throne world and possibly figure out a way to turn their noble class in to gods and/or use it's power to found a galactic empire that would make the Imperium of Man from Warhammer look like a quaint, Rhode Island coastal village.
They can't possibly care about their "home system." Their home planet is gone, and they feel no affinity to the remnants of humanity who make a tiny proportion of the population there and have no cultural or relevant genetic links to them.
The Starstone post-dates the Azlanti leaving Golarion, and no gods have been raised by it since pre-Gap, and no one has been able to come close to touching it since. Does it still work? From the perspective of the Azlanti government, the Starstone's god powers are speculative history in the footnote of an intel report. I'm sure the scout corps has found dozens of things just as interesting.
The fast drift travel would be much more interesting to the Azlanti, except for one thing. They've already developed aeon stones to give fast travel capability to their own ships, and putting the Starstone in their territory would let the entire galaxy have a highway to invade them quickly. Since they aren't exactly open to trade and free contact with other species, having the Starstone drift beacon in their territory would actually be a negative.
2) The Empire is also probably a little sick and tired of those reptilian savages in the Veskarium who keep shaking their plasma halbreds at the universe and it would be nice to teach that uppity little system some manners on general principle.
Why? There are 100 billion stars or so in their galaxy (unless it's unusually large or small) and they probably have detailed reports on at most tens of thousands of those, but at least thousands. The Veskarium are probably not exceptionally noteworthy among the most powerful empires out there. The odds are there are a few empires bigger than the Azlanti out there, and that it might take centuries (at least) to ever even find them.
3) The main reason why neither of these upstart systems are currently speaking Azlanti is because there is a great big army of marauding bug monsters who are just really hungry and the only thing that keeping the glorious Empire off the menu is the massive fleet of ships between them and the HR Gieger Inspired nightmare currently munching on various sentient species.
The main reason they aren't speaking Azlanti is because they are very powerful, populous, and developed systems who can put up a huge fight for relatively little benefit compared to attacking smaller and defenseless systems who are easier to exploit, control, and reform. And because the Azlanti have no allies, many enemies, and have widely dispersed territories, so they have to defend everything strongly, leaving only a relatively small fraction of their forces available for offensive actions.
The US military is a lot more than twice as strong as the Russian (the population is about twice as big), but nukes and MAD aside, it would be really stupid to say the only reason they aren't speaking English is anything other than the enormous cost and foolishness of trying to conquer them, were the US so inclined. And of course the US isn't subdivided among twelve widely dispersed noncontiguous landmasses and surrounded by hostile countries who would love to attack them in return if they sent all of their military to Russia.
It's the same situation for the Azlanti vs. the Pact Worlds or Veskarium, except the PW and Veskarium are significantly stronger than Russia in this scenario.
4) The entire point of Against the Aeon Throne is that the Azlanti are attempting to overcome that issue, either because Drift Travel sucks or because they would need an edge in a galactic military grudge match. Either way, stopping the Azlanti from being able to win a war or stopping them from outright beating the Swarm and turning their eyes to the rest of the Universe is probably going to take up a lot of our time as players and will more than justify that AP subscription I just made.
"The Azlanti" aren't doing anything in the improperly named Against the Aeon Throne. The Aeon Throne knows and cares nothing about the events of this AP, it's a rogue mid-level noble trying to better himself by reviving a historical project and reaping the rewards afterwards. If he's successful it would give the Azlanti a big advantage, sure. Being able to quickly zip around to concentrate against other dispersed fleets would negate a lot of the Azlanti disadvantages.
But it's by no means obvious that the Pact Worlds would make sense to conquer first (or ever) even if every Azlanti ship had a rune drive. They still have to occupy and pacify (or nuke and exterminate) all the people on the ground, and hope to reap some benefits that exceed the costs. That's pretty unlikely for populous, technologically and magically advanced systems who have no reason to want to submit to a bunch of LE racists. It would make a lot more sense to keep growing by picking off easy targets and developing them at lower cost into well integrated and fast growing portions of the empire.
Which doesn't mean the Azlanti leadership is smart enough to recognize that, of course. Sometimes people think a land war in Asia, invading Russia in winter, or declaring war on a larger, more heavily industrialized nation with a vastly superior navy who is across an ocean from you are good ideas.
I agree with point 1, and the book agrees too with "The Azlanti Star Empire aims to be the only power in the galaxy,"
This just establishes that the Azlanti is run by fools who don't understand scale very well. I might as well aim to be the only man on earth.
If the Swarm is heading for the PACT worlds, I could clearly understand why the Azlanti Empire is waiting a bit :D
Anyway, Paizo will never let a single story overwhelm their whole setting. What would be the point of exploring new planets if the universe is at war?
So, they'll come with a Reason, and we will realize the Reason is good, and we will love the Reason. Anyone heard of McGuffin?
Reading through Paizo posts, it seems the swarm has already attacked the Pact Worlds and were pushed out. And the Pact Worlds now have plans in place to stop any future attacks from the Swarm. The Veskarium is in the same position. So Attack of the Swarm! will be a new location where they haven't dealt with the Swarm yet. We know the azlanti haven't, so it could be their territory. Or a unknown colony, or a race we haven't met yet.
Reading through Paizo posts, it seems the swarm has already attacked the Pact Worlds and were pushed out. And the Pact Worlds now have plans in place to stop any future attacks from the Swarm. The Veskarium is in the same position. So Attack of the Swarm! will be a new location where they haven't dealt with the Swarm yet. We know the azlanti haven't, so it could be their territory. Or a unknown colony, or a race we haven't met yet.If the Swarm is heading for the PACT worlds, I could clearly understand why the Azlanti Empire is waiting a bit :D
Anyway, Paizo will never let a single story overwhelm their whole setting. What would be the point of exploring new planets if the universe is at war?
So, they'll come with a Reason, and we will realize the Reason is good, and we will love the Reason. Anyone heard of McGuffin?
or what attacked the pact worlds before was just a scouting force, and they're sending a message back to the main hive...
Yeah, no. Paizo's writers think that because they're game writers with (apparently) no understanding of military capabilities and strategy. If the described scenario were real, however, (a match or slight better for the combined Pact Worlds/Veskarium forces, but spread out over 12 planets), there's no way the Azlanti would take that big a risk, and pay that big a price, to try to control that many different races in such large numbers.
You can tell how ignorant they are in that section because they talk about the PCs having to defeat a "platoon" (about 40 dudes with zero sustainment/logistics capability if you're talking infantry) who are in charge of the occupation of Abasalom Station, population 2 million plus. I actually LOL'd when I read that.
This attack may have been more of a nerve strike aimed at promoting social instability. If the Azlanti could secure control of the Spike, which maintains the station's defenses, power, and life support systems (and Starstone reactor), they could theoretically hold the entire station hostage. By relocating or destroying Absalom Station, they could disrupt the Pact World's core leadership (Stewards, Pact Council, banking and trade institutions, etc). After that, they could simply wage a simple war of attrition (rather than downright invasion) by fueling tensions between individual Pact Worlds as they struggle to rebuild - leaving them wide open for attack by outside forces (such as the Swarm). By taking out the nerve center of the Pact Worlds, they could do a lot more with a lot less than an all-out invasion could.
That said, I tend to doubt the effectiveness of this type of assault, as Pact World government is already fairly decentralized, and there may be any number of ways Absalom's security might counteract this type of attack (it seems like a pretty glaring vulnerability). While losing Absalom Station would hurt, I doubt it would lead to anywhere near societal collapse with the Pact Worlds. Not to mention, if this was on the Empire's to-do list, not sure why they couldn't have done it before, seeing as they'd have an easy invasion window through the Starstone and an easy retreat with their own homeworld's Aeon Stone beacon. This could have been done before. It might have even been a tactic attempted during Eox's Magefire Assault.
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I can't even begin to imagine the nightmare of Azlanti trying to conquer and hold the Pact Worlds. The moment they make their play, a number of things start happening.
1. The governments of all the Pact Worlds activate their entirely separate defensive countermeasures. You're going to see space dragons out of Triaxus, ghoul plagues out of Eox, Absolom's Starfinders using focused intel to hit critical targets, and anacites from Aballon convincing Azlanti robots to unionize. The Veskarium would find its fleets diverted by helpful skittermander bureaucrats to help out, too.
2. The villain organizations either don't appreciate the disruption to their operations or decide to use that moment to make THEIR play, while everyone else is dealing with Aeon scum and villainy. The Corpse Fleet would almost certainly stroll in and start killing everyone, Azlanti or Pact. Drow weapons dealers see no profit in human supremacists taking over and loan their best guns to resistance fighters (with interest of course). The Cult of the Devourer would just love to get their hands on some Azlanti superweapons, is my thought, as well.
3. Scrappy adventurers. You can't effectively defend against scrappy adventurers, because, try as you might, you can't send your highest level troops after them. Adventurers have the uncanny knack of only attacking targets that they have solid odds of successfully beating. By some luck, they'll hit your platoon of cadets or your mid-level security facilities or attack while your powerful forces are elsewhere, probably dealing with #1 or #2, above. After defeating isolated groups of 1 to 5 defenders and catching your local boss with a minimum complement of henchmen, they will certainly destroy your facility and/or ruin your plans.
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This attack may have been more of a nerve strike aimed at promoting social instability. If the Azlanti could secure control of the Spike, which maintains the station's defenses, power, and life support systems (and Starstone reactor), they could theoretically hold the entire station hostage. By relocating or destroying Absalom Station, they could disrupt the Pact World's core leadership (Stewards, Pact Council, banking and trade institutions, etc). After that, they could simply wage a simple war of attrition (rather than downright invasion) by fueling tensions between individual Pact Worlds as they struggle to rebuild - leaving them wide open for attack by outside forces (such as the Swarm). By taking out the nerve center of the Pact Worlds, they could do a lot more with a lot less than an all-out invasion could.
You can tell how ignorant they are in that section because they talk about the PCs having to defeat a "platoon" (about 40 dudes with zero sustainment/logistics capability if you're talking infantry) who are in charge of the occupation of Abasalom Station, population 2 million plus. I actually LOL'd when I read that.
It's pretty unclear given how easily the automated defenses of an unprepared Abasalom Station slapped down the Magefire Assault how many ships the Azlanti would have to burn just to knock down the infinite energy shields and land some troops on the station. And the Stewards have interplanetary portals to all of their bases throughout the other Pact Worlds.
Azlanti Troopers: Fly on a troop transport through a storm of particle beam fire vaporizing a high percentage of ships before they ever get near the station to take withering fire as they enter through the prepared defenses of the hangar bays, air locks, and kill zones of key internal corridors.
Pact Worlds reinforcements: Walk through a door taking them from their planetary staging areas to the heart of Absalom Station.
Hmm.
You know what? I give up.
You know what? I give up.
They will be welcomed as liberators.
When it comes to fantasy worlds, the mass is not the way to win. You'll get far more power from a focused action than from an army.
Infiltrate Absalom station with a party of very high level characters, hack to its core, and blow it to pieces without even losing a single ship.
Or build a superweapon you can put on a battleship, and burn it to the ground, Deathstar style.
Or summon Ubahu Balbatruc, archdevil of the infosphere, and take control of all its inhabitants, forcing them to surrender.
I don't see an all out assault being the best approach.
Yes, destroying the most valuable asset in the galaxy, creating a magical McGuffin, and betraying your god in favor of a competitor's minion are all very valid strategies.
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When it comes to fantasy worlds, the mass is not the way to win. You'll get far more power from a focused action than from an army.
Infiltrate Absalom station with a party of very high level characters, hack to its core, and blow it to pieces without even losing a single ship.
Or build a superweapon you can put on a battleship, and burn it to the ground, Deathstar style.
Or summon Ubahu Balbatruc, archdevil of the infosphere, and take control of all its inhabitants, forcing them to surrender.I don't see an all out assault being the best approach.
That sort of thing never works for the evil empire. You need the plucky rebel class to pull it off and they have a CG requirement.