Just using CR as a baseline tends to work but can need some adjudication for certain abuseable abilities (like a Nosoi's At Will Invisibility)
Or the pugwampi
My general suggestion is for everyone to agree on a CR to start with. If we are allowing Improved Familiars it should probably be CR 2. Anything higher than that maybe shouldn't be allowed. Everything lower than that might get to Advanced template to boost them up a bit.
Problem with this is that most of the evil CR 2 improved familiar critters have Invisibility at will.
I'm thinking if Shadow is, in fact, going to allow us to be an improved familiar creature, he should create a rather specific list of which we can be, as opposed to just allowing them all.
Right now, I'm looking at a cat stalker, because that amuses me. Rogue is just as amusing(actually, there's a ton of amusing options, like cat bard who meows as it's perform or a cat *rage* class, that just becomes a tiny whirlwind of claws and teeth when it rages), but I like Path of War(and few games allow it), and Stalker gets enough similar abilities to rogue that I won't be missing anything.
Kitsune in Fox form breeds with Pipefox. Offspring is... weird.
My Reign of Winter Kitsune is going to find out what happens when a Kitsune marries a Winter Wolf... XD
Speaking of which, the more I think about it the more I'm fond of the idea of a fox with kitsune feats. In fact, given that 3rd-party materials are on the table, I might go for using a lot of Everyman Gaming stuff, like the Kyubi Paragon prestige class (once high enough level for it)... if allowed. Would that be acceptable, Shadow?
The rules in the book for playing creatures work rather well for anything CR 3 or less. I've had very good luck using them in games, both as player and as GM. I'd suggest Shadow set the game to assume a specific CR to start (say 1, 2, or 3), and then have us create characters pegged to a specific starting CR. It's easy to calculate, and those who pick lower CR creatures can take a level or 2 of classes to bring the CR up. It's easier than using level.
After that, we can just level up as normal going forward.
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Shame on Shadow for even suggesting another game when I've got too many going already. But I'm kinda digging the lower powered familiars, like the cat for instance. I'm thinking of a wallaby myself... or maybe a ninja turtle :)
A clockwork familiar. A tiny clockwork dragon, made of adamantine, steel and bronze.
A clockwork familiar. A tiny clockwork dragon, made of adamantine, steel and bronze.
Or like Bubo, the owl from Clash of the Titans. What happens to him after Perseus dies? Surely, being created by a god, he could continue to live a near immortal life.
Given the way damage scales in Pathfinder, this game is going to be somewhere between goofy and hilarious.
I'm picturing a housecat dealing 40 points of damage with a sneak attack. How do you even describe that with a straight face?
Given the way damage scales in Pathfinder, this game is going to be somewhere between goofy and hilarious.
I'm picturing a housecat dealing 40 points of damage with a sneak attack. How do you even describe that with a straight face?
The same way you describe a warrior who can't reach anything above a colossal dragon's ankles stabbing it to death?
Now describe a housecat killing that same dragon. It makes me laugh. :)
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And lo, unto the dragon did our hero leap, and with claws sharp and fangs ready. The great fire-drake reared back with flaming death in its jaws, and its mighty scales shining, and it roared and slashed at its foe with scything teeth. But Whiskers was quick and agile, and he landed upon the dragon's snout and there did he swipe out with one needle paw. And the dragon roared in pain as its eye was rent, for the claws of the cat are small but wicked-biting sharp. Ere long the beast was blind, and soon after it fell, the feline champion having scratched even unto its very skull. And there to mock his foe, Whiskers did hack up a hairball, which was later placed in the Temple of the Dragonslayer as a relic of great import.
Hey Loup, thanks for coming up with my potential PC's name!!
This game is either gong to be a potential Saturday Morning Kids cartoon or some f*$$ed up adult swim shit, just not sure which yet....
This game is either gong to be a potential Saturday Morning Kids cartoon or some f*#*ed up adult swim s%%!, just not sure which yet....
Knowing some of the players already involved, probably both, lol
Hmm, viper familiar of a yuan-ti? So much potential.
Dotting. Ioun Weird familiar
Introducing Pebble
Pebble
Ioun wyrd shadow assassin 5 (Adventurer’s Handbook: Genius Guide Volume 1, Pathfinder Player Companion: Familiar Folio 30)
N Tiny construct
Init +5; Senses blindsight 30 ft., darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +12
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 18, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +5 Dex, +1 dodge, +2 size)
hp 38 (6 HD; 5d8+1d10+5)
Fort +1, Ref +9, Will +8
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune construct traits
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Offense
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Speed fly 30 ft. (average)
Melee slam -1 (1d4-2)
Ranged (M) +1 shuriken +11 (1d2 plus 1d6 damage)
Space 2½ ft.; Reach 0 ft.
Special Attacks daggermaster (ex)
Shadow Assassin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +2)
. . At will—ethereal jaunt, gaseous form
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Statistics
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Str 4, Dex 20, Con —, Int 7, Wis 18, Cha 5
Base Atk +4; CMB +7; CMD 15
Feats Dodge, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (shuriken)
Skills Disable Device +7, Escape Artist +13, Fly +17, Perception +12, Stealth +26
Languages Common (can't speak)
SQ deadly focus, ioun affinity, shadow style (shuriken style), shadow talent (uncanny dodge), share iouns, skill bonus (su), stealth bonus (su)
Other Gear +2 mithral chain shirt, +1 shuriken (50), stalker's mask[UE], 1 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blindsight (30 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Construct Traits (+0 HP) Constructs have many immunities.
Daggermaster (Ex) +1 (Ex) You have mastery with light weapons which gives a total enhancement bonus of +1 to attack and damage.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Deadly Focus (1/day) (Su) +4 to hit, +4 to damage.15 minutes to regain use of deadly focus.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fly (30 feet, Average) You can fly!
Immunity to Ability Damage Immunity to ability damage
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleed You are immune to bleed.
Immunity to Death and Necromancy effects You are immune to Death and Necromancy effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage You are immune to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Ioun Affinity (4 stones) (Su) May integrate a number of stones into its body.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Share Iouns (Su) Master shares benefits of ioun stones while within 30 feet.
Shuriken Style (Su) +1d6 Bonus damage with Shurikens.
Skill Bonus (Su) +2 (Su) +2 to Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Escape Artist or Sleight of Hand check made in conditions of dim or darker lighting.
Stealth Bonus (Su) +5 (Su) +5 to all Stealth checks made in conditions of dim or darker lighting.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) A shadow assassin with this talent can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He cannot be caught flat footed, even if the attacker is invisible. He still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A shadow assassin
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This game is either gong to be a potential Saturday Morning Kids cartoon or some f~~!ed up adult swim s&!*, just not sure which yet....
Both!
Seth86: May I ask you a question? Can an ioun wyrd actually manipulate shuriken? I really like the idea of a floating cloud of gems, iouns, and throwing stars, but I was just wondering if it's possible. Are they telekinetic or what?
Dotting to see what games might be open.
No Really, the REAL Last of Shadow's Recruitments - "Sidekicks" An All Familiar Campaign Recruitment
1. ONLY Familiars who have become independent of their Wizards can be selected.
2. 15 Point Buy.
3. Start at 5th Level.
4. 1 Trait.
5. All Characters start with - Evasion and Alertness and the Special Ability their Master's were granted for assuming a Familiar.
The world upon which we will be playing will be based on what the PCs selected choose out of the following:
1. Golarion,
2. Krynn,
3. Oerth,
4. Faerun,
5. Eberron,
6. Athas, or
7. Termana (Scarred Lands).
Not sure about starting gold yet as Familiars don't generally have the use of hands like the usual PC Races do. I'll have more on that next week as well as I am done mulling the thought over.
This will not be an AP but a series of Dungeon Modules that I piece together as I don't see an AP working well here.
All 3rd Party Materials Welcome.
I have a few Feats in mind I will also create, more on that next week.
No Background Skills.
Currently, there is no end date for the Recruitment. I have four interested PCs [DarkLightHitomi, Mister Lurch, Loup Blanc, and Doomed Hero] so I would be looking for 2 to 3 more.
---
Folks, likely tomorrow night I'll address some of the MANY questions posted here in the past few days.
Dotting to see what games might be open.
The one I posted above ATM.
It looks like M7 and Eberron have openings but Players have been quick to fill them.
I am considering creating an opening (though a bit of a limited scope in the opening) for one of my Golarion Vampire games the other supposedly is being filled but I've yet to see any builds come to me via PM.
I'll give the full list of games in a post below for anyone who's new to my Recruitment Threads Dodekatheon.
The Games People Play:
2. Star Wars Legacy Era - Tempest Feud - Empire in Exile
3. Star Wars Legacy Era - Tempest Feud - the Sith Empire
4. 5E Ravenloft - Ill Met in Kartakass
10. Eberron - Echoes of the Past - Secrets of Khorvaire
11. Eberron - Echoes of the Past - Secrets of Sharn
13. By Fang, Fur, Claw, Feather, and Scale! - A Classic Greyhawk Lycanthrope Pathfinder Campaign
14. When Will You Rage!? - A 2nd Edition Modern Werewolf the Apocalypse Campaign
15. DRAGONLANCE - LEGENDS OF THE THIRD DRAGON WAR
16. Strange Aeons AP
18. Gamemaster Zimovat Vyetyer's - Reign of Winter
19. Vampires of Golarion - The Quest for Eternal Night a Second Darkness AP
20. Vampires of Golarion - Shadows of the Darklands a Second Darkness AP
21. Council of Song - DM Guild Master's All Bards Council of Thieves AP
22. Discover the Lost Continent! DM Decemvirate Emissary's The Ruins of Azlant AP
23. Forged in Steel - Chicago & Gary by Night - A Second Edition Vampire the Masquerade Story
24. Forged in Steel - Milwaukee by Night - A Second Edition Vampire the Masquerade Story
25. The Magnificent 7 - All Gunslingers Kingmaker/Iron Gods
27. Tyrants of Zhentil Keep - A Forgotten Realms Pathfinder Mythic Campaign
28. Discover the Lost Continent! DM Ruins Master's The Ruins of Azlant AP
29. Discover the Lost Continent! DM Ends of Golarion's The Ruins of Azlant AP
No Really, the REAL Last of Shadow's Recruitments - "Sidekicks" An All Familiar Campaign Recruitment
1. ONLY Familiars who have become independent of their Wizards can be selected.
So no awakened companions or unfettered eidelons. Got it. Thanks then, hope it goes well!
Thinking on a submission for a familiar, just not sure yet. I'll give it a good night's sleep and try tomorrow.
So no awakened companions or unfettered eidelons. Got it. Thanks then, hope it goes well!No Really, the REAL Last of Shadow's Recruitments - "Sidekicks" An All Familiar Campaign Recruitment
1. ONLY Familiars who have become independent of their Wizards can be selected.
I might change my mind, tune in tomorrow :-)
I might change my mind, tune in tomorrow :-)So no awakened companions or unfettered eidelons. Got it. Thanks then, hope it goes well!No Really, the REAL Last of Shadow's Recruitments - "Sidekicks" An All Familiar Campaign Recruitment
1. ONLY Familiars who have become independent of their Wizards can be selected.
Same Shadow Bat Time....
Same Shadow Bat Channel....
So no awakened companions or unfettered eidelons. Got it. Thanks then, hope it goes well!I might change my mind, tune in tomorrow :-)Same Shadow Bat Time....
Same Shadow Bat Channel....
MDT, I think Shadow is messin with ya :P lolol
By the way, I'm voting for any world on which Kitsune exist if the idea of a fox familiar with some Kitsune traits works. Since the version of Kitsune that Pathfinder uses is (mostly) unique to Pathfinder, I think that means I'm voting for Golarion.
My vote is for faerun.
Shadow is at it again, making interesting games. That guy. ;P
I am interested but waiting on the rules before I comment. I got a concept but if it can work or not is the question. :)
I know, I'm not joining this one, but still... I vote for Kanto.
That's where the best Pokemon come from.
(=)
After thinking it through, I think a Scarlet Spider Unchained Rogue would be cool. I'll see about creating that tonight.
Okay, here's a basic sketch of my character idea, Silvertail the fox:
Silvertail was an unusually clever vixen, but there was, at first, nothing magical about her. But when a hunter killed her first litter of kits, she escaped out into the night, her heart filled with rage. She looked up at the stars, sending up a vague vulpine prayer for the power to wreak vengeance.
Something answered.
Silvertail was clever for a fox, but still not really intelligent enought to question the impulse she received to travel. She walked for days, hunting when she got hungry, until at last she stumbled across a young, two-tailed kitsune. She felt drawn to him, his vulpine features soothing the fear his size and humanoid shape inspired in her. He hesitantly reached out as she approached, eventually touching the top of her head.
In an instant, her mind expanded as she became his familiar.
They traveled together for years as witch and familiar, he gaining greater and greater magical powers (and more tails), she growing in intelligence and understanding.
It all ended one day, when her master fought a powerful nogitsune. The battle was terrible, and at last, both kitsune and nogitsune slew one another simultaneously, falling dead in front of Silvertail's eyes at once.
Somehow, the backlash through her link with her master from the simultaneous death transferred part of his magical power to her. Silvertail yowled as her tail split into two and magical energies surged through her.
In days to come she explored her new powers, gradually learning how to use them and how to survive on her own again. She took to wandering, searching for a purpose (her hatred for the hunter who killed her kits had cooled in her years of working with her kitsune master)... and searching for more power, for the reminder of her fragility left her wanting more ability to control her own destiny.
---------
So, basically, she'd be a fox sorcerer with the Kitsune bloodline and the Magical Tail feat, aiming to go into the Kyubi Paragon prestige class if possible (just more sorcerer if not). She'd be True Neutral, with some ability to be swayed towards good or evil depending on the company she keeps.
Shadow, are you willing to allow psionics?
Shadow, are you willing to allow psionics?
Dreamscarred Press. Yes.
So I take it the living spell isn't an option?
Either way. I'm thinking of changing my application to a familiar Dread 5. Looking at something that almost makes a Wisp
Just a dot to what others have said:
Racial ability scores?
Advanced familiars ?
Question from my side:
How are we handling that familiars have different "caster character" levels?
Like some need level 5 others level 3 or 7?
I vote vote faerun
Oh psionics eh? So I could play a psicrystal that is in the shape of a viper and that acted as a sacrificial dagger from a degenerate snake cult?
So I take it the living spell isn't an option?
I like the idea but need to give it more thought.
I am either going to:
A. ONLY allow familiars, OR
B. Allow everything.
I'd vote to keep it only familiars--with it opened up to all companion-type creatures you don't get the same flavor of the small shaking the world of the large.
Wow. Familiar game. ...wow. I was gonna let it rest with the Ruins of Azlant game, I'm super busy lately, but...that's just kickass. I might submit something.
Shadow, what do you think of us being able to trade out Alertness and Improved Evasion for abilities granted by Familiar Archetypes?
I would vote for option B, I always go with more options rather then less.
Normally, I am right there with Omni, more options are best.
However, I think for this game I would prefer only allowing familiars, and maybe even limiting them to non improved/advanced ones.
Ie, whatever a Wiz could get at first level, and nothing else.
Perhaps later in the game, we could undergo a ritual or something, and transform into more powerful, thematically similar improved versions.
Normally, I am right there with Omni, more options are best.
However, I think for this game I would prefer only allowing familiars, and maybe even limiting them to non improved/advanced ones.
Ie, whatever a Wiz could get at first level, and nothing else.
Perhaps later in the game, we could undergo a ritual or something, and transform into more powerful, thematically similar improved versions.
I agree--part of the fun of a game like this is having to deal with being weak little animals.
...Okay, with five class levels you're hardly weak anymore, but still probably not a melee threat.
Also, I had a thought about how to balance familiars and improved familiars.
Since improved familiar costs a feat to get, you could just give standard familiars a bonus feat, or make improved familiar sacrifice their first level feat to be an improved familiar.
What I have against base familiars is the overlap potential. How many people are going to pick similar things. Not to mention the more out there concepts can't be done. A cat rogue is fine, a winged cat rogue is better, and a cat shaped air elemental rogue is best. But that's just my simple opinion. ;)
P.S. I always enjoy the sight of a tiny mouse man, back handing something 10 times his size and sending it flying like a boss. Blame cartoons for that. xD
I'd rather keep to more basic familiars. Going with more crazy over-the-top stuff doesn't really fit the idea of being familiars. While I think an over-the-top game would be neat, I think it would also work better without the pretense of being familiars, not to mention that such a game would have a different focus than being mere familiars.
The place of familiars is to be the small sidekicks, and the players get to be those that should be mere sidekicks and yet are instead heroes in their right, contrary to what they should be.
Playing more powerful and weird creatures breaks that core concept of acting contrary to what should be.
That is my opinion anyway.
P.S. I always enjoy the sight of a tiny mouse man, back handing something 10 times his size and sending it flying like a boss. Blame cartoons for that. xD
Does said tiny mouse man wear a cape?
I kind of like the idea of starting small, basic familiars, and then BECOMING the air elemental cat thing. At level 5, they should already have a can of whoopass that exceeds many commoners, but the real power is down the road