Looking for best way to get a wish.

[Zarius]

Long story short, one of our party members died, got Reincarnated, and is now a completely crippled entity. The best thing I can think of so far is hijacking an outsider to provide either a Miracle or a Wish to put the character back in his body.

I obviously know about the couple of Djinn variants that can perform Wishes, but I'm looking for all possible options, so I was hoping the community could advise me of the way they know of to get an outsider to perform a wish WITHOUT leaving too much room for the GM to rape one or more party members.

[Dox of the ParaDox twins]

Get a wizard to cast it for you?

[Gobo Horde]

Thoughtful Wishmaker trait. Either have someone pick up the Extra Traits feat (and then retrain it out :p) to pick up this or go into town and "hire" someone who seems to be thoughtful yet wistful, and have him make the wish for you...

Out of curiosity, what did he turn into? A kobold?

[Zarius]

I should note that money is not a major factor here, the person that needs restored can easily afford Greater Planar Ally/Binding. However, the character in question would likely prefer to avoid evil entities of possible. So, Efritti is low, low, LOW on the table.

[Zarius]

Dox, can't afford wish. We aren't THAT rich.

Gobo, a sprite. Custom table.

[Dox of the ParaDox twins]

Alright than...I think one of the angels can cast wish but I'm not sure

[_Ozy_]

A solar, CR23. Good luck with that.

[Dox of the ParaDox twins]

Oh...Alright than...I knew one of them could

[_Ozy_]

Also an Empyrean angel, CR20.

[Zarius]

Aren't both of those over 18 HD? Because CR isn't relevant, but HD is...

[_Ozy_]

I believe so, yes. Aren't there some abilities that let you boost that limit though? You need to hit 22HD for the Solar.

[_Ozy_]

However, you have to look at it this way:

If there were a reliable way to get a wish for much less cost than the actual wish spell, everyone would do it that way.

Do you really think it's a good idea to find a way to bypass that?

[Wheldrake]

You could always kill him and reincarnate him again. <g>
Maybe the player should just roll with it. I'm sure some fun could be had with playing a sprite.

Or else he needs to think about retiring the character and starting a new one.

Or else he needs to go to a loan shark and get enough cash to pay a 17+ level wizard to cast wish for him.

Planar binding is soooo dangerous, that I just wouldn't go there.

Last option: work with the DM. Have the party bard research some lore about a magic lamp rumored to have been lost in some scary place. Make it into a whole adventure to save the so-called "crippled" PC.

[Dox of the ParaDox twins]

I totally agree Wheldrake. Also I love the idea of a magic lamp adventure. Zarius you should probably just talk to the DM or better yet, have the player this happened to talk to him

[Eltacolibre]

Make it a quest or adventure, talk with the gm, he will probably love making an adventure about it.

[Zarius]

So, first of all, nobody in the party (character OR player) would agree to offing one of our party members just to try to reincarnate them AGAIN.

The GM has been consulted by several players at this point. Technically, one of the players already came up with something, but she's refusing to share with the party (something about the dream realm, and the party actually HAS an expert on the planes. a base +13, with a +4 to IDing weaknesses and what not of angels, archons, devils and demons).

And, at this point, the character being a sprite has proven a detriment in general, and a major liability to the party, so I'm looking for something in my character's field of expertise to force the other player to finally spill the freaking beans. Right now, I've got "Deal with an Efretti" (expert on outsiders, he's not that stupid) "Piss off a Djinni Vizier" (See previous), or "Deal with a Marid" (CN, so only one step off my alignment, and my best bet so far).

It's one of those things where the problem needs remedied sooner rather than later, and f--- only knows why she's procrastinating. Something about "wanting to make sure it'll work" (ain't that what the party's expert on the planes is for?)

[Dastis]

Headband of Int +2 for profession(barrister). Give it to your wisdom character to word the wish.

Genie in the lamp quests are fun. Asking your DM sounds like a great idea.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Find a caster who knows wish and offer to act as their indentured servants for a time if they'll first restore the sprite's original body. This has the minor advantage that getting the wish right is their problem, not yours.

I'm mildly curious what the sprite's class/build is like that leaves them crippled. Big tough smashy-things type? Maneuver-based? Intimidate-based? I take it being Diminutive is the problem.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

I'm mildly curious what the sprite's class/build is like that leaves them crippled. Big tough smashy-things type? Maneuver-based? Intimidate-based? I take it being Diminutive is the problem.

I also would like to know this. Seems like being a Sprite would actually be a good thing. Better stealth, able to fly, harder to hit. But that's just me.

Anyways, just get a miracle from the church and do a bunch of jobs for the church to pay them.

[Zarius]

Fuzzy, no. Not happening. :P

He's 4 druid/1 Keneticist, so it's not the size.... it's that even a MINOR bag of holding pushes him over his max carry weight, and he just went missing for the last two days (game time, obviously) and nobody noticed.

For my part, MY character assumed he was continuing work on a magic item he'd been working on before a random job came our way. My character is also the one that noticed that he was AWOL when he couldn't be located for some help with MY magic item.

And, naturally, he had to get lost in The Weird (basically, gigantic magical f- fest because the GM wanted a non-normal natural barrier between two kingdoms. Time, space, and magic all get screwed up BADLY outside of certain safe areas).

Honestly, Reksew, we could just PAY for the miracle (same price as Wish), but it still requires the 25k in diamond, and that's basically the entire party's combined wealth right now.

[nicholas storm]

Druid has ant haul on it's list.

[Scott Wilhelm]

nicholas storm wrote:

Druid has ant haul on it's list.

And he has Wildshape! And if the problem is that he can't carry stuff anymore, why not just use his Animal Companion? or buy a Donkey? Spells don't scale down with size: is he a caster druid? I can see this as being inconvenient, but hardly crippling.

[Lady-J]

retrain him to unchained rogue with urban bloodrager multiclass and watch as he does massive amounts of damage

[shaventalz]

The monster entry for Djinn says that there exist 10HD variants that grant wishes, and they'd be chaotic good. That might be a bit more palatable than the traditional efreeti route.

[Zarius]

Nicholas, yes, they do. So, for eight hours, his capacity ups to a whopping 9.

Scot, he doesn't have an animal companion, or it might have been more noticeable that he was gone. "Hey, where's that mutt so-and-so keeps around?!"

Lady, he just retrained INTO druid from Shaman, I doubt he wants to retrain again. :P

Shaventalz notice the key phrase in there about "to those who capture them." That's a pretty big sticking point for me. Pissing off a CG entity I want HELP from tends to be a bad way to start the conversation.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

I mean a diminutive creature shouldn't need more than 9 so for 2 level 1 spells or one level 2 Spell (extended) his carrying capacity shouldn't be too big of an issue.

What's the 1 level kineticist dip doing for him out of interest?

[Reksew_Trebla]

Not to sound like a prick, but why didn't you cast "raise dead" followed by two "restorations" to remove the two negative levels? Would have only cost you 7,000 gp in diamond material, plus the cost of having the casters use those spells, vs 1,000 gp of oils and 25,000 gp diamond dust from using reincarnate and miracle/wish, plus the cost of having the casters cast those spells.

I mean it's too late now, but it would have saved you a lot of money in the long run.

At this point I'd say you're just gonna have to take the loss. Either the player remains a sprite, or you spend all your money to fix the problem. Though if your gm is cool with it, you could take the third option of owing the church and having to do whatever they say until you pay them back.

[Zarius]

Reksew, because that's seven grand PLUS actual spell cost the party didn't have access to at the time.

[Zarius]

But, to point out, at least a Genie using Wish doesn't result in the requirement for a 25k in diamond dust.

[Sissyl]

Retrain to wizard or rogue. Seriously. And let SOME OTHER CHARACTER BE THE PACK MULE.

[Gray Warden]

Armors for Diminutive creatures weight 1/10 their normal weight, and this is the only thing a caster druid needs. He just needs to rewire its build: he can be a blaster, a controller, a summoner; Druid spell list is probably the most versatile one. Heck, caster druids usually wild shape INTO Diminutive creatures just to be more accurate and elusive!

This game is not only "having the most perfect build from level 1 to 20", it's also being able to improvise and adapt to face new challenges.

[Eltacolibre]

Gray Warden wrote:

Armors for Diminutive creatures weight 1/10 their normal weight, and this is the only thing a caster druid needs. He just needs to rewire its build: he can be a blaster, a controller, a summoner; Druid spell list is probably the most versatile one. Heck, caster druids usually wild shape INTO Diminutive creatures just to be more accurate and elusive!

This game is not only "having the most perfect build from level 1 to 20", it's also being able to improvise and adapt to face new challenges.

Pretty much this, while in the ideal perfect situation, you will get everything that you want or need...there is always a strong possibility that some elements of the campaign and game will change whatever you are doing.

Losing limbs...while it sucks, can happen if you use all pathfinder rules, a barbarian who focused on two handed weapon...would not enjoying losing one hand or arm...but it can happen. Adapting to changes is important too.

[Zarius]

And sometimes the adaptation to change is fixing the problem, rather than sticking band-aids over it.

[Lady-J]

quick question what was his characters str b4 he became a sprite? cuz if it was 8 or lower he is actually just paralyzed atm

[Jeff Morse]

Zarius wrote:

And sometimes the adaptation to change is fixing the problem, rather than sticking band-aids over it.

I think what a lot of folks are trying to say is they would like to play this character. I would, cause not seeing as much drawback as bonus. what was stats before and after?

[Zarius]

Well, to start with, Jeff, the problem is that the group, in general, has an end goal. I was just trying to facilitate. This went completely off track.

But he's got a two strength. Literally a two. As to the rogue, I don't care what the game MECHANICALLY says you can do, a nine inch tall sprite ain't getting d6s for sneak attack dice. A weapon shorter than my pinky does not have the mass to do that kind of damage, even if you hit straight in an artery, and you sure as heck ain't convincing me that you're going to hit brains or internal organs with it. Not without it breaking off.

Other than that, his dex is phenominal, his wisdom is middling (like 15 or 16), his int and charisma have no bonuses, and I think he gets a +2 from his con.

[Dox of the ParaDox twins]

Sorry to break it to ya zarius but the mechanics are what matters. Reality does not matter here.

[Jeff Morse]

Just guessing but looks like he planned on being a flying critter blaster. He now has that. Ant haul and +4 belt gets him to 15 pounds light load.
If really want to get wish, someobe mentioned a 22HD. There is an item in summoner book that gets you +2 and a feat for another +2, so just need greater planer ally and someone to cast it. Plus lots of gold, cause figure he aint doing it for free.
Planer binding is cheaper, but you make someone mad.

[Zarius]

Actually, Jeff, he went druid because he had... familiar problems. He killed one (when he died), and forgot another when the party gated a month's travel away. And shaman can't cast spells without their familiar. We had a hell of a time convincing him that his class abilities shouldn't be lumped in because the manual only covers spell casting.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Pathfinder is not a rubric for real life I'm afraid.

You're just saying 'no you can't do that' because how something works is a bit outside of how you want your fantasy to work, there isn't a machinical problem here there is a suspension of disbelief problem.

Start suspending your disbelief. It's a game about magic for christs sake.

[Lady-J]

well there are examples of really small things doing massive amounts of damage did you forget the black plague killed over 1/3rd of europe and those things are smaller would be smaller than fine sized in pathfinder so a diminutive rogue doing massive damage is no less believable

[GreyYeti]

Have someone cast polymorph any object on him into a medium-sized humanoid.
Duration should be permanent and without a material component the casting is much cheaper (1200 gp)

[Alni]

Zarius wrote:

Well, to start with, Jeff, the problem is that the group, in general, has an end goal. I was just trying to facilitate. This went completely off track.

But he's got a two strength. Literally a two. As to the rogue, I don't care what the game MECHANICALLY says you can do, a nine inch tall sprite ain't getting d6s for sneak attack dice. A weapon shorter than my pinky does not have the mass to do that kind of damage, even if you hit straight in an artery, and you sure as heck ain't convincing me that you're going to hit brains or internal organs with it. Not without it breaking off.

Other than that, his dex is phenominal, his wisdom is middling (like 15 or 16), his int and charisma have no bonuses, and I think he gets a +2 from his con.

Nice! I don't care what the mechanics say either, when it makes no sense storywise. Our ex-DM had a 4 inch tall something (that we couldn't see or hit) backstabbing the party to death and it made sense to NOBODY.

On topic why didn't they cast Resurrection? No cleric? You could find a cleric to resurrect him... given that he'd accept being killed again. Don't know whether he'd take his previous form or be a sprite again though.

Edit: I like sticking to the rules, just clarifying. But some things...

[Sissyl]

You could polymorph him to whatever. From tree stump to whale.

[Snowlilly]

Zarius wrote:

Long story short, one of our party members died, got Reincarnated, and is now a completely crippled entity. The best thing I can think of so far is hijacking an outsider to provide either a Miracle or a Wish to put the character back in his body.

Polymorph Any Object to desired race: duration permanent.

Arrange to get reincarnated again - as many times as nessessary

@*!w an efreeti

[Gray Warden]

Polymorph Any Object works like Greater Polymorph, which works like Alter Self for transformations into humanoid creatures. Good luck with your Medium sized character with 4 Str.

The comparison with "reality" regarding sneak attack is bulls.it btw. Even more within a thread talking about reincarnation and miracles.

[Malignor]

5th level party trying to get wish (or PolyAnyObj; 8th level spell), huh...
Good luck with that.

I know he just retrained, but retraining the Domain into an Animal Companion (who will carry gear) is probably the best solution right now. Or just change the domain to Animal Domain and get a companion anyway (3 levels behind). Or for 2000gp you can just get a custom haversack made (see below)

If you think there's a quick & easy way to get ahold of Wish at level 5, well... please share it if you find one, because such a solution would be game breaking H4X and I'd love to try it myself.
Not sure what you expect to find here; you read as not very receptive to suggestions, except to answer exactly what you want... and what you want (reliably getting access to Wish at level 5) is to break the game. Most folk here (self included) think that being a Sprite caster is actually pretty solid idea, even with a STR of 2. If your party can't work with such a character, to the point where you're turning to the boards community, why reject what the community offers regarding how to make the character work? Asking the boards community how to break the game isn't exactly the best route, when there are so many options being presented which will work.

Also... how could you not notice that you lost a Sprite for 2 days, when they shed light?

As for the bag of holding... that's a Medium sized BoH which is 2x4 feet in size. Where would a diminutive sprite even put it?
To carry gear, you can also just get a customized Haversack made Diminutive, and scale all the measurements (weight x1/4) as appropriate. I'm sure the crafter will happily take your 2000gp, and enjoy telling the story at the pub.
Such a haversack would weigh 1lbs (no matter how loaded up it is)
Main pouch can carry 20 lbs, and the side pouches each carry 5 lbs.

[GreyYeti]

Gray Warden wrote:

Polymorph Any Object works like Greater Polymorph, which works like Alter Self for transformations into humanoid creatures. Good luck with your Medium sized character with 4 Str.

Actually he gets a higher bonus to strength. Core rule book page 212:

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.

Being diminutive he gets another +6 to Strength and -4 to Dexterity according to that table.

[Malignor]

Other ideas include:

Have this belt made diminutive for 1k

Donkeys are 8gp, and have a light load capacity of 100 lbs. Or train your own if you have time but no money

[Purple Overkill]

Hm... Can´t remember which book it is in, but there´s a forced reincarnation spell. Could be an interim solution until you have the money for wish?