According to the updates thread, we are encouraged to make suggestions for Class Decks we would like to see, so it may be nice to gather them in one place for ease of reference.
I'd like to see
- Ninja
- Samurai
If that is too niche, a single CD themed around Jade Regent similar to the Hells Vengeance CDs would be cool as well, where I imagine it would include the iconic Ninja, iconic Samurai and then someone else as well.
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I love this thread idea. Since we've announced that we're not releasing anything as big as a base set until at least Gen Con 2018, we will need to keep making cool bridge products until that point. I'm always up for suggestions.
FYI, I came out of my first hour of PaizoCon with an idea for a new character deck suggested by a fan. Not sure it will happen, but I sure like the idea.
That almost sounds like there could be something else inbetween class decks and base sets? I'll hope for some cool announcements at GenCon for the wait until the next base set. :)
A Drow/Darkland CD would also be very cool in my book, letting us play as Drow from Second Darkness.
what about a special Class Deck featuring the Red Raven? :-)
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Investigator!!! Seriously, I'd like to see the iconics we haven't seen in PACG form. Quinn, Kess, and Hakon deserve card game treatment, as do Reiko and Hayato. I'm violently opposed to the vigilante in the rpg, but Aric could be cool in the card game. Plus, imagine how silly a vigilante class deck could be.
But really investigator.
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Something that improves the first seven class decks would be nice.
(I enjoy replacing half my deck with Loot cards as much as the next guy, but there's only so many useful Loot cards available. :)
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The Tourist class deck, featuring the Commoner (with her trusty housecat cohort), an Adept, and a Warrior.
The Tourist class deck, featuring the Commoner (with her trusty housecat cohort), an Adept, and a Warrior.
That's actually awesome. I'd buy that in a heartbeat.
I'll second Parody's suggestion. This could be done as a "Class Deck 2" where both decks for a class can be combined. These could bring the total number of characters in both class decks to 6 (so the first run class decks would only have 2 new characters in the second class decks, allowing them to align cards with characters better while including cards that better support the existing characters; while later class decks would allow for 3 new characters).
It might also be interesting to see a "New Roles" character deck that only gives us new role cards for existing characters, and maybe some nifty general use boons.
Generally speaking, I'd only like to see class/character decks for classes for which characters have been released in adventure paths. There are some exceptions to this, such as Vigilantes (which I think would require specially designed adventure paths to work well, but which would be fine as a class/character deck).
Beyond that, it might be interesting to see some race-based character decks. This would be a great venue for using some of the race-based archetypes and (ideally) some non-iconic characters.
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Well, since you are fishing for idea Mike...
I know everyone wants to have her dream character.
I agree the first 7 CD could benefit from a fix given all the new rules and cases since then.
But bottom line we now have much much more boons than banes and more characters than we can really play in a lifetime.
So why not a "bestiary" deck and a "barriers" deck?
Would give the opportunity to create monster with stranger powers or nice not-this-Mike puzzles.
Could even add a "strange remote locations" deck with classic medieval rpg locations.
Point is: with all that we could create our own specific adventures waiting for the next set. We already have a lot of versatility in boons but far from that level in banes.
Just an idea...
Just to build on my previous post, I know we all have bought different things and I'm sure Mike has his own stats, but for a guys like me who bought all sets+add-ons+CD+Seasons cards+iconics, the bottom line is something like:
~110 different characters (more than you need)
~260 different locations
~110 different support cards
~190 different villains
~290 different henchmen (but 330 cards due to mandatory generic henchmen copies to fill locations)
~290 different monsters (but 510 cards due to copies... nobody wants a single goblin!)
~170 barriers (280 cards)
2000 banes cards (940 different) look like a lot?
But what about 4350 boons cards (1470 different)?
~110 different loots (140 cards... you can already have a 6p game with only loots in character decks!)
~290 different weapons (760 cards with all those daggers)
~230 different spells (720 cards)
~150 different armors (450 cards with a full rack of leather armors)
~310 different items (740 cards)
~310 different allies (730 cards)
~70 different blessings (820 cards including 150 Blessings of the Gods)
That's why I'd rather not have more boons (who needs armor #151?), but more adventures...
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TL;DR: Banes decks! Encounters!
I've managed to put together a group that plays Pathfinder once a week, and we're working our way through the Mummy's Mask path. We're now about 11 weeks away from finishing assuming we never miss a week (which we haven't yet, with present players taking over characters for absent people) and never blow another scenario. (After an abysmal start, I think we're on a streak that's lasted since the beginning of Adventure 1.) As such, I'm thinking hard about what things we can do next.
There's someone at the table who has now played RotR, S&S and WotR, so I either need to get creative, or some people need to be happy with running over the same ground.
One idea I've had is to take Rise of the Runelords and jazz it up somehow. I could do this by grabbing ideas from the digital game (wild cards, adjacent locations [ * ],... ), or tossing in class decks if people want to play one of those characters, but the banes are going to be the banes.
I could find things on DriveThru, but I frequently find myself looking at a card on there that's kind of interesting, only to find it has an adventure deck number of 7 or 3E, or it's in German, or it requires the eclipsomancy skill to defeat or something equally strange. Maybe there's some fantastic content that uses these cards and others like them, but I can't easily reverse engineer finding those. And maybe there's some terrible content, or unreleased content....
Now, if I had a 110-card City Encounter deck to throw in for those sections of RotR that happen in Magnimar, I could, for those scenarios only, water down Bunyips and so forth in favour of Pickpockets, Crashed Oxcarts, Gangs of Street Thugs, just for variety's sake. Or a Badder Goblins deck for the earlier adventures. Or a Fiendish Traps deck for the later, underground-ier ones. My other plans already have me doing a decent amount of deck management, and it's a small price to pay for even more depth of play from the APs we already have. RotR is pretty vanilla compared to pirates, demons and mummies, and it's before some of the great ideas that followed were conceived. Some different ways to modify the content we already have would be great.
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[ * ] Yes, adjacent locations didn't start with the mobile game. Hush.
Axoq, Ron Lundeen has you covered.
Axoq, Ron Lundeen has you covered.
Oh, I know about those, and they're on my list. One of his selling points though is that no additional cards are needed for the full-length adventure paths so it's still the same banes. I could design some for the new storyline, but I'm one guy and I'm picky about my artwork.
But thanks!
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So I had a thought that it might be cool to have regional character decks from different areas of Golarion. A deck of Vikings from the Land of the Linnorm Kings, one of revolutionaries (and Grey Gardeners) from Galt, one of crusaders from Mendev, etc. would be a great way to get more Golarion lore into the card game.
Chief Technical Officer
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...a single CD themed around Jade Regent similar to the Hells Vengeance CDs would be cool as well, where I imagine it would include the iconic Ninja, iconic Samurai and then someone else as well.
(Don't take this reply as either an acceptance or a dismissal—it's just an observation!)
If Mike came to me with that idea, and asked who should fit in the third slot, I would say either Ameiko Kaijitsu (Aristocrat/Bard/Rogue) or Shalelu Andosana (Fighter/Ranger). (And I would expect that Shalelu would work slightly better with the cards needed to support the other two.)
If Mike came to me with that idea, and asked who should fit in the third slot, I would say either Ameiko Kaijitsu (Aristocrat/Bard/Rogue) or Shalelu Andosana (Fighter/Ranger). (And I would expect that Shalelu would work slightly better with the cards needed to support the other two.)
We have had this very conversation.
Thanks for sharing!
Speaking of Ameiko, her base is in the tutorial for the Pathfinder App, as well as Orik. I don't know if Obsidian or you came up with those incarnations, but she is definitely a character I'd like to play with roles, either in the App or the physical card game.
Which shows that there is probably a space for class decks based on important NPCs from APs as well.
Oh, I know about those, and they're on my list. One of his selling points though is that no additional cards are needed for the full-length adventure paths so it's still the same banes. I could design some for the new storyline, but I'm one guy and I'm picky about my artwork.
But thanks!
Once I have enough free time to finish the "Revenge of the Wicked" AP in the Homebrew forum, I want to make a second version with custom henchmen/villains/some monsters. I haven't started yet, but as far as I understood, the images from the Paizo Blog can be used to this end under the licence. Maybe you want to check it out by then? Either way, there is free artwork on drivethru anyway, and it looks decent.
Playable Shalelu would have me got in a heartbeat.
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This is the easiest way to find officially sanctioned artwork, including artist attributions:
http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Category:Artwork_by_artist
Trust me, I've looked at *every* blog post on Paizo.com using the Older entries link while working on the Rise of the Runelords guide, and PathfinderWiki's artist page is much easier.
The only quibble I've found is that on very rare occasions the wiki includes images that only appeared on the Pathfinder Society page (which doesn't have blog in the URL path) and they're marked "Community Use", but this only an outlier for about 5 images of the thousands they link too. My suggestion for avoiding any potential CUP problem is to check out the attribution link to the original Paizo.com web page and only download the image from Paizo.com if the link complies with the policy (eg. a blog post or an official product cover from the list).
I'd love to see something like Drive Thru utilized to make the Class Decks "living". Basically, as new cards are released, make them available to class deck through Drive Thru.
For example: Chain Lightning is first released in Mummy's Mask Deck 3. When Mummy's Mask Deck 3's street date arrives, add the following cards to Drive Thru:
Option 1: Different Adventure Deck Numbers
Wizard Class Deck Chain Lightning (AD# 3)
Sorcerer Class Deck Chain Lightning (AD# 4)
Bard Class Deck Chain Lightning (AD#5)
That is just an example and I'm particularly making up the adventure deck numbers just to illustrate that they could be given different adventure decks.
Option 2: Single Cards
Class Deck Chain Lightning (AD# 3)
If necessary, have a rule saying which class decks it can be part of. This could be a document that lists all the "additional" cards and which decks they can do in and at what tier. So something like:
Chain Lightning
Bard Tier 5
Wizard Tier 3
Sorcerer Tier 4
If you took this approach you could even sell whole "Guild" bundles of cards.
This seems a way to "fix" the original decks as well as keep the decks "living" with new options. If necessary, set a rule in the guide limiting how many additional cards you can have.
Option 3: Bundles
Ok, this is just thinking more about making this more feasible/palatable.
Make bundles of cards, like
Class Deck Spells 1
Class Deck Spells 2
Class Deck Weapons 1
etc.
Class Deck Spells 1 would have Chain Lightning.
The cards in each bundle are AD# A. Their is a list of what tier different classes can add them:
Chain Lightning
Bard Tier 5
Wizard Tier 3
Sorcerer Tier 4
There is also a rule that the deck number of any card with the letter A is treated the same as your tier. This helps for things like rebuilding and powers that care about deck numbers.
When you had enough, you could release Class Deck Spells 2. And so on.
And again, you can put a limit in the guide saying no more than 10 of any "Deck A" cards in your class deck or something like that.
I'd love to see Character Decks, er Class Decks, made from some of the awesomeness that the Adventurer's Guide has in it. Namely:
- Grey Maidens
- Hellknights
- Red Mantis
If you love Hellknights, then the Hell's Vengeance character deck 1 is for you. One of the Evil iconics (Linxia) is a Hellknight.
I still would like to see weapon and shield specialist and two handed specialist character decks like I did in some previoius post.
And to modifuing the old class decks, there has to be system that pull out some cards and replases them with something new. Like remove character x and its role cards plus cards x,y and z. And put in the deck cards a,B,c,D and e.
Then there would remain the same amounth of cards in each character deck and also posibility to remove those extra characters from the first 7 class decks that have very Little card support in the deck.
Easiest for the balance. Ofcourse the release of completely new versions of those decks would be the easiest solution. Bard deck v2, sorcerer deck v2 and so on. It would be easier to keep those different versions separately, but I would nor maine the change X card in the deck system Also, but that would be much harder to normal people who don't have drive through posibility. In that case upgrade Bundle to al those first 7 decks would be the easiest. Release an upgrade pack that replases nesessary cards from those original decks.
True... making seoson decks officially available at the shops makes the game much cheaper. Using same core set again and again and then just add new adventure set in form that is same or similar than seasons.
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Class Decks:
Brawler
Investigator
Cavalier
Dead Horse:
A way to freshen up the original class decks
(ie: A fighter/Paladin/Barbarian deck, 1 new character each and rest of the cards split between the 3 classes. Or a Wizard/Sorcerer Deck. Or a Rogue/Ranger/Bard Deck.)
I also like the idea of the Location Decks.
Adventure decks: each one tuned to a current box set. Comes with a new Path card/6 Adventure cards/30 or so Scenario cards. And the new Monster/Barriers/Loot/Henchmen/ and Villians needed to make it go.
There's someone at the table who has now played RotR, S&S and WotR, so I either need to get creative, or some people need to be happy with running over the same ground.One idea I've had is to take Rise of the Runelords and jazz it up somehow.
You could play the seasons. The season decks for season of the runelords, seasons of the righteous and season of the goblins recently went up at drivethrucards (and they are very well done).
Could be exactly the sort of thing you're looking for to change things up, new cards, quirky mechanics and a bunch of text! In particular I feel like having epilogue text instead of just cleaning up adds a lot to the game.
Our group started from Organized Play, so we've also played Season of the Shackles and Season of the Righteous, and after seeing Adventure 6 of the latter and dealing with some of the rules, we, um, stopped doing OP.
It's possible the newer rules that came later are better, and of course we can alter the rules playing at home, but it's probably still going to be a hard sell.
Our group started from Organized Play, so we've also played Season of the Shackles and Season of the Righteous, and after seeing Adventure 6 of the latter and dealing with some of the rules, we, um, stopped doing OP.
It's possible the newer rules that came later are better, and of course we can alter the rules playing at home, but it's probably still going to be a hard sell.
It depends a lot on what things bothered you about said rules. AD6 tends to be higher difficulty in every set, so if it's a difficulty question then it might be fairly universal for AD6. On the other hand, you could play AD1-5 of the other OP seasons cheerfully.
If it's certain mechanics - things like burying your role card, Wrath in particular had some mean mechanics, because of Mythic madness. Different sets will likely avoid many of those problems.
If it's purely a question of the team's actual skill and experience at designing scenarios... that is a trickier proposition. We have had slightly different people on different seasons, and it's true that the designers gain skill over time. That said, I wouldn't expect a vast difference between the design theories of OP and its representative set. For example: I worked on both the Mummy's Mask box set and Season of Plundered Tombs and didn't change much in that time :)
My gaming group started through Organized Play. We played the first three seasons, and I loved it.
I really enjoy the creativity of the scenarios, especially how much they vary from the corner-the-villain norm. I also enjoy the extra challenge.
If we had a subforum for PACG Organized Play, would could discuss its future in that forum.(Oh wait, there is one, it's just hidden.)
Vic asked for ideas about how to increase the logging of sessions. (see thread here) Our group did stop reporting & recording.
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I'm not a fan of the idea of seeing Hayato and Reiko and a third Tian character in the same character deck. To me, this risks re-creating the problem we've seen with the first run of class decks where one or more characters weren't supported well by their class deck. While this problem isn't such a big deal when playing in a normal adventure path, it kills in organized play. The Samurai are rich with variations sufficient to support three characters with two roles each in their own class deck, while the Ninja, though more limited, could probably fill their own class deck. I could see a third character deck for generic Tian setting characters (I'd love to see some Tian themed spellcasters, for example). (I'm actually surprised that neither the Samurai nor the Ninja have their own archetypes - at least I didn't find any in Ultimate Combat or at the Pathfinder Wiki. For both, though, there are plenty of historical variations to support distinct characters/roles.)
I'm not opposed to character decks covering specific regions, but I think that each character that is included in a character deck should have equal potential for progression (and, thereby, attractiveness for use by players). That principle applies to all class/character decks, though.
I'd like to see a character deck for each class that has appeared in a PACG adventure path but for which no such deck currently exists (e.g., cavalier, shaman, etc.). I would prioritize with those that are least supported by existing decks at the top and those that are most supported by existing decks at the bottom. So an arcanist can probably get by on either the Wizard or Sorcerer Class Decks well enough, making it a low priority, whereas a brawler can't get by well on either the Fighter or Monk Class Decks well, making it a higher priority.
I'm going to second the suggestion for a Hellknights character deck. As the background shows, Hellknights aren't a one-size-fits-all character type.
I'd actually like to see some additional character add-on decks for the various adventure paths, providing additional options that wouldn't fit in base sets or initial character add-on decks. These would be characters themed appropriately to the APs, with one role tuned for the AP and the other role a bit more generic. This might also be a way to bring some of the NPCs into the mix (such as the previously mentioned Shalelu Andosana and Ameiko Kaijutsu ideas). For example, Kess the Brawler might be a good addition to the Rise of the Runelords, and Quinn might be a good addition to the Mummy's Mask. Depending on the number of boons necessary to make these characters viable in the adventure path, there might be more than four characters per such character add-on decks.
The splatbooks have a few: Sovereign Blade, Sword Saint, and Yojimbo. Inner Sea Intrigue (a relatively new book) also gave the Ninja the Frozen Shadow archetype.
A Samurai can take any Cavalier archetypes for which he is qualified for (aka has the class features to switch out), and a Ninja can do the same thing for any Rogue archetypes she's qualified for, so they don't really lack for archetypes.
That's what I get for basing my statement on the Pathfinder Wiki. ;)
Interesting that the Samurai has an archetype called "Sword Saint" while the Magus has an archetype called "Kensai" (which translates as "sword saint").
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I'm not a fan of the idea of seeing Hayato and Reiko and a third Tian character in the same character deck. To me, this risks re-creating the problem we've seen with the first run of class decks where one or more characters weren't supported well by their class deck. While this problem isn't such a big deal when playing in a normal adventure path, it kills in organized play. The Samurai are rich with variations sufficient to support three characters with two roles each in their own class deck, while the Ninja, though more limited, could probably fill their own class deck. I could see a third character deck for generic Tian setting characters (I'd love to see some Tian themed spellcasters, for example). (I'm actually surprised that neither the Samurai nor the Ninja have their own archetypes - at least I didn't find any in Ultimate Combat or at the Pathfinder Wiki. For both, though, there are plenty of historical variations to support distinct characters/roles.)
I'm not opposed to character decks covering specific regions, but I think that each character that is included in a character deck should have equal potential for progression (and, thereby, attractiveness for use by players). That principle applies to all class/character decks, though.
I'd like to see a character deck for each class that has appeared in a PACG adventure path but for which no such deck currently exists (e.g., cavalier, shaman, etc.). I would prioritize with those that are least supported by existing decks at the top and those that are most supported by existing decks at the bottom. So an arcanist can probably get by on either the Wizard or Sorcerer Class Decks well enough, making it a low priority, whereas a brawler can't get by well on either the Fighter or Monk Class Decks well, making it a higher priority.
I'm going to second the suggestion for a Hellknights character deck. As the background shows, Hellknights aren't a one-size-fits-all character type.
I'd actually like to see some...
Remember that the first set of class decks had four characters in them, and that caused issues with supporting all of the characters in a 109-card deck. I think that it's much more reasonable to support three characters that have relatively divergent powers in the same size deck. I also think once we see the Pathfinder Tales deck, it'll give us a better idea of how a non-class-focused deck will work.
In other words, I have full faith in Keith and Mike's ability to make a deck with a Samurai, a Ninja, and another Tian-Jia-focused character that will work very well for organized play.
I have full faith in Keith and Mike's ability to make a deck with a Samurai, a Ninja ...
Since we're just throwing out opinions - I don't entirely like the idea the any of the Iconics debut in a mere Class Deck. I'd much rather they have their "own" Base Set and adventure to play, with Roles and powers tailored to that set's quirks, as opposed to "generic Ninja", etc.
I appreciate that part of the reasons behind my opinion is that I don't play Organized Play, and the Class Decks offer little value to me (except being able to say "Yey, I finally have a Samurai and a Ninja, if for no other reason that I couldn't get them anywhere outside of a Class Deck...". Not really the best incentive.)
Another much more important reason is, I'm afraid this will give the Lone Sharks an excuse to continue to keep a Jade Regent set out of our hands for the foreseeable future...
(Incidentally, though I'm not at all a fan of all the "modular" ideas in the "What Would You Change" thread - the Jade Regent might represent a prime subject for a "modular" experiment - you start with a generic Varisia Base Set, and then as your characters "travel" to Pathfinder Japan (or is it China?) - you get to mix in and out specific boons and banes from other "geographical" sets...)
I would also prefer a Jade Regent base set over a mere class deck, but then again, a class deck is better than nothing. I also would like to have a dedicated Samurai and Ninja CD, but I have no data on how popular these classes actually are; I immediately got a monk CD, but it might be a slow seller for all we know, indicating not much interest (I think it's one of the cheaper CDs available from third party sellers). It might make economically more sense to 'only' make a JR character deck, which would be unfortunate.
That being said, I feel like the CD characters are most of the time much more versatile than the characters from the basesets. Once you take the base set characters away from their base set, they often become locked into one role, since the other is really only powerful in their respective set, and I think that makes them pretty uninteresting for the most part. Especially since the role that exploits the sets unique characteristic most of the time feels like the obvious superior choice for that set.
Want to play a Swashbuckler in WotR? Too bad, there is only SnS Jirelle, and already her base powers are based around cards not available there.
Want to play as Arueshalae in RotR? Go ahead, but don't bother with her Fallen role.
If anything, I would choose the classes from the base sets in order to complement the class decks - by now, you can unlock 10 different characters for using the Rogue CD, but there are only 4 characters for the Monk deck available. For the same price, I get much more out of the Rogue CD than the Monk CD, and I think that's a pretty bad incentive for most of the underrepresented classes. Which, by the way, are Barbarian, Gunslinger, Monk, Summoner, Warpriest and Witch, with 4 characters in total each. And yes, that means you can play more characters with the goblin decks than some of the 11 base classes.
Coincidentally, Jade Regent would be a pretty good choice for the characters that are currently underrepresent ;)
By the way, I wouldn't mind some crazy cross class deck unlocks for organized play in order to bump the usage of class decks up - I'm pretty sure that Ostog could be played with the monk class deck just fine, for example, even if it turns out unconventional.
I have begun experimenting with letting people unlock characters with multiple different class decks in PluTo, and expect to continue to do so when interesting in future seasons.
That said, I'm not sure we'll do unlocks for the non-iconic class deck characters any time soon (so, Amiri sure, but not Brielle).
Makes perfect sense. I'll look forward to what you'll come up with!
And I hope my post didn't come across the wrong way - the characters in the base sets are still plenty fun to play, and the most recent characters from MM are much more versatile than the ones from SnS and WotR. I guess I'm just spoiled by all the cool stuff you pulled off, so I want to see you pull off even more great stuff.
It depends a lot on what things bothered you about said rules.
I have responded to this, but I'm taking it to a separate thread in the Adventure Card Guild forum someone mentioned earlier.