Need help building troops


Advice


After putting so much effort into finding mass combat rules that work, I just stumbled onto the troop subtype. It's perfect for my needs, but I need help turning the enemies into troops. I've got individual ones made up, but need help turning them into troops. If I post Tue individual characters up would someone give me a hand adding the subtype? There'll be a few, but once I understand how to do it I don't think it'll be too difficult to do the rest. Anyone game?


Dotted, as I have a similar thread up. The rules for making them are rather unclear.


Can anyone at least point me in the right direction?


The Troop Subtype page has all you need.

The troop is essentially played as a swarm, but of larger creatures.

Some samples are available here. [includes: Axers, Forest Guardians, Imperial Archers, Imperial Infantry, Imperial Phalanx, Inquisitor, Skirmishers, and Testudo]

/cevah


Let's say I have 25 monks, individually cr 6. Does the troop have 150 hd? Do I automatically give then any bonuses for teamwork feats? Ect. I'm quite confused.


From what I'm understanding, we're supposed to work backwards. Minimum troop size is 12 dudes (up to about 30). For whatever CR you want just give it the appropriate number of HD for something of that type at that CR. There's a chart on creating monsters in the bestiary (I can't find it atm though).


Kaelan Ashenveil wrote:
Dotted, as I have a similar thread up. The rules for making them are rather unclear.

link

CoI wrote:
Let's say I have 25 monks, individually cr 6. Does the troop have 150 hd? Do I automatically give then any bonuses for teamwork feats? Ect. I'm quite confused.

Lets make a "Monk Troop" at CR 6: first draft might need to tweak later

Monster Creation states:
Step 1: Concept
"Monk Troop"

Step 2: Target Statistics
70 Hit Points
19 Armor Class
16 Primary Ability DC
11 Secondary Ability DC
9 Good Save
5 Poor Save

All the Monk abilities have DCs with normal calculations, generally 17.
Monks have no weak save, so all saves are good.

Step 3: Hit Dice
Humanoid at CR 6 has 9 HD

Step 4: Size
Step 5: Abilities
Step 6: Skills and Feats
Step 7: Other Statistics
Step 8: Special Abilities and Qualities
Step 9: Treasure
Step 10: Details
These can be ignored, as we are dealing with a swarm based off the Monk.

Using the examples here, we have this one close to what you want:
The relevant stuff is:
AC 20 16, touch 16, flat-footed 18 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex, +1 dodge, +1 monk, +3 Wis)
You don't get the +4 Armor, as that is from a potion, which you don't get.
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +9; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion; Immune disease
Speed 50 ft.
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+25 when jumping), Climb +9, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (local) +3, Knowledge (religion) +6, Perception +11, Perform (percussion) +6, Sense Motive +13, Swim +10
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Scorpion Style, Step Up, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
SQ fast movement, high jump, ki pool (6 points, magic), maneuver training, purity of body, slow fall 30 ft., wholeness of body
Combat Gear potions of cure light wounds (2), potions of mage armor (2), potions of magic weapon (2); Other Gear dagger, masterwork sai, belt of giant strength +2, cloak of resistance +1, 395 gp
You don't get the gear, as that would be blowing out the treasure for the encounter. Good thing it doesn't affect the combat ability of a swarm.

With that start, lets see what happens....

The swarm gets Stunning Fist. It can be used 9 (HD) times per day. The DC is 10 + 4 (1/2 HD) + 3 (Wis) = 17. At 9th level, it can also be used for fatigued, or sickened (1 minute) instead of stunned (1 round).

The high jump means this swarm is really mobile. If a ki point is used, even more so.

Yes, you get to use ki, just not for attacks. [Well you could, but would need a lot of creativity to figure how it interacted with swarm damage.] The swarm has 4 (1/2 HD) + 3 (Wis) = 7 ki. It can spend a point to overcome DR/Magic, DR/Cold Iron, or DR/Silver for a round.

While the normal CR 6 monk has disarm, I suggest using it as the disarm from the Mad Monkeys spell. CMB of 9 (HD) + 3 (Wis) = 12 + 1d20 vs. CMD. Applies to all opponents in swarm.

The Step Up is also useful for making them a bit more troubling for the party.

The evasion goes to improved evasion due to HD.

You do 2d6 damage due to Swarm Damage. However, with the ability to stun, damage is not what others fear.

Be sure to read up on the troop type link I provided earlier for how to run the troop as a swarm.

As to this one, it is fast, can harry casters, and apply conditions to opponent. This makes it quite painful, even if it doesn't do much damage.

/cevah


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Cevah wrote:
You do 2d6 damage due to Swarm Damage. However, with the ability to stun, damage is not what others fear.

I really wanted to like the troop archetype but when I saw the damage it inflicted I was crestfallen. It's so laughably pathetic any troop might as well be free xp.


The problem is that individually they're cr 7. And I want there to be 25 of them. So should I stat it as a Cr 15-18 creature with the troop subtype? They're hungry ghost monks with the Corrupted template from the book of vile darkness. Trained to work together REALLY well. So they've got broken wing gambit, wounded paw gambit and paired Opportunists. Armed with double kama and shuriken for reach and opportunity attacks. They also deal damage 1 size greater due to the template, and each monk does an additional 3 Vile damage, which can't be healed unless you're on consecrated ground.


From what I've seen, looking in the Bestiary 6, they were generally stating up the Troops as about 6 CRs higher than the actual creatures. So, for your monks, what I'd do is set up 2 troops, each at CR 12. If you go with the suggested Hit Dice of 17 for humanoids, you'll end up doing 4d6 + Strength damage as a swarm. I'm not going to try to build yours for you, as I'm busy building a succubus troop myself.


That's a great start at least. Thanks!


Benjamin Medrano wrote:
I'm not going to try to build yours for you, as I'm busy building a succubus troop myself.

Now that is one sexy idea. :-)

/cevah


Think spending a ki point to deal it twice would be unfair?


Probably not. But I think the stunning fist might be more frightening for the players.

/caveh


They're hungry ghost monks so they don't have stunning fist. Punishing kick instead.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm amazed that there don't appear to be any zombie troop stats available anywhere. Seems like that would have been an obvious fantasy staple to lead with.


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Ravingdork wrote:
I'm amazed that there don't appear to be any zombie troop stats available anywhere. Seems like that would have been an obvious fantasy staple to lead with.

... You know, you're right. After I finish my writing for today, I think it's time to do both a skeleton and zombie troop. *adds to list*


Ravingdork wrote:
I'm amazed that there don't appear to be any zombie troop stats available anywhere. Seems like that would have been an obvious fantasy staple to lead with.

I bet the reasoning is "they're mindless so they wouldn't work together as a troop, such and such..." That wouldn't be my reason, but it's probably someone else's.


Xexyz wrote:
Cevah wrote:
You do 2d6 damage due to Swarm Damage. However, with the ability to stun, damage is not what others fear.
I really wanted to like the troop archetype but when I saw the damage it inflicted I was crestfallen. It's so laughably pathetic any troop might as well be free xp.

Honestly, the fact they get free auto damage makes me happy it's as low as it is. I think the concept of the troop subtype is pretty silly in a game like this.


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Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I'm amazed that there don't appear to be any zombie troop stats available anywhere. Seems like that would have been an obvious fantasy staple to lead with.
... You know, you're right. After I finish my writing for today, I think it's time to do both a skeleton and zombie troop. *adds to list*

I figure I may as well share the products of my efforts with Herolab. I'm not saying these are the most balanced in the world, but I got them as close to the target numbers of their CRs as I could. Each troop was based off the basic skeletons, zombies, and skeletal champions from the Bestiary.

Undead Troops:

Zombie Troop CR 6
XP 2,400
Zombie troop
NE Medium undead (troop)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+6 natural)
hp 58 (9d8+18)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +6
Defensive Abilities troop traits; DR 5/slashing; Immune undead traits
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (2d6+5)
Special Attacks ravenous horde
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 21, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 12
Base Atk +6; CMB +11; CMD 21 (can't be bull rushed, can't be tricked, can't be disarmed, can't be dragged, can't be grappled, can't be repositioned, can't be tripped)
Feats Toughness
SQ staggered
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Damage Reduction (5/slashing) You have Damage Reduction against all except Slashing attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleed You are immune to bleed.
Immunity to Death Effects You are immune to death effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage You are immune to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Staggered Immune to staggered.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Ravenous Horde (Ex) A zombie troop adds the Grab special ability to its troop attack, and deals 1d6 additional damage with its troop attack to creatures it has grappled.
Staggered (Ex) Make only a single move or a single attack action each round.
Troop Attack (2d6+5) Troop automatically deals listed damage to all creatures within reach or in troop's space at the end of the troop's move.
Troop Traits Immune to effects targeting specific number of creatures.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities.
Vulnerability to Area Effects You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to spells and effects that damage an area.

--------------------

Skeletal Champion Troop CR 8
XP 4,800
Skeletal champion troop
NE Medium undead (troop)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+5 armor, +1 Dex, +2 natural, +3 shield)
hp 90 (12d8+36)
Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +8
Defensive Abilities troop traits; DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune undead traits
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (3d6+6)
Special Attacks lunging assault
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 23, Dex 13, Con —, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +9; CMB +15; CMD 26 (can't be bull rushed, can't be tricked, can't be disarmed, can't be dragged, can't be grappled, can't be repositioned, can't be tripped)
Feats Cleave, Improved Initiative, Lunge, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Intimidate +17, Perception +15
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Damage Reduction (5/bludgeoning) You have Damage Reduction against all except Bludgeoning attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleed You are immune to bleed.
Immunity to Death Effects You are immune to death effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage You are immune to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Staggered Immune to staggered.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Lunge Can increase reach by 5 ft, but take -2 to AC for 1 rd.
Lunging Assault (Ex) A skeletal champion troop focuses on a single target to focus lunge attacks on. The troop may select a single creature each round as a free action and may deal damage to that creature as though the troop had +5 feet reach. This represents a small num
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Troop Attack (3d6+6) Troop automatically deals listed damage to all creatures within reach or in troop's space at the end of the troop's move.
Troop Traits Immune to effects targeting specific number of creatures.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities.
Vulnerability to Area Effects You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to spells and effects that damage an area.

--------------------

Skeleton Troop CR 5
XP 1,600
Skeleton troop
NE Medium undead (troop)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 12, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +2 natural)
hp 45 (7d8+14)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +5
Defensive Abilities troop traits; DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune cold, undead traits
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (2d6+4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 19, Dex 14, Con —, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +5; CMB +9; CMD 21 (can't be bull rushed, can't be tricked, can't be disarmed, can't be dragged, can't be grappled, can't be repositioned, can't be tripped)
Feats Improved Initiative
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Damage Reduction (5/bludgeoning) You have Damage Reduction against all except Bludgeoning attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Immunity to Ability Drain Immunity to ability drain
Immunity to Bleed You are immune to bleed.
Immunity to Cold You are immune to cold damage.
Immunity to Death Effects You are immune to death effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Energy Drain Immune to energy drain
Immunity to Exhausted You are immune to the exhausted condition.
Immunity to Fatigue You are immune to the fatigued condition.
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Mind-Affecting effects You are immune to Mind-Affecting effects.
Immunity to Nonlethal Damage You are immune to Nonlethal Damage
Immunity to Paralysis You are immune to paralysis.
Immunity to Physical Ability Damage Immune to ability damage to your physical abilities.
Immunity to Poison You are immune to poison.
Immunity to Sleep You are immune to sleep effects.
Immunity to Staggered Immune to staggered.
Immunity to Stunning You are immune to being stunned.
Troop Attack (2d6+4) Troop automatically deals listed damage to all creatures within reach or in troop's space at the end of the troop's move.
Troop Traits Immune to effects targeting specific number of creatures.
Undead Traits Undead have many immunities.
Vulnerability to Area Effects You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to spells and effects that damage an area.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


Does hero lab do troops? Which add on?


Herolab can do troops. I have a lot of them, but as long as you have a Bestiary add-on you should be able to use the Bestiary Monster Creation (that's what I used). That being said, if you want the book with troops in it, use the Bestiary 6 Add-on.

Also, since Troop is a subtype, that's where you'd want to look to work on it. (As a note, I created the Ravenous Horde ability myself, as well as Lunging Assault... which I note got cut off *sighs*).

If you want advice, I'm willing to give it, but I'm afraid I'm not going digging into my 3.5 collection for BoVD.


Thank you! and the BoVD stuff has passed. should I post the individual characters here, or PM you?


Up to you! I'm not terribly particular myself.


Oh, and I'm going to be out of town for about a week for PaizoCon and a trip, so don't expect anything out of me too quickly.


WARMACHINE CR 4
Male human commoner 3
N Medium humanoid (construct)
Init +4; Senses Perception +12
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+4 Dex, +5 natural, +3 armour)
hp 38 (3d10+20) damage factors: 7
Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +4
Body blades: non-reach weapons attacking Warmachine take 1d8 dmg
DR 10/-, acid, cold, fire resist 10, electric immunity, Construct Traits,
OFFENSE
Melee spiked chain (two handed) +8 ((two handed) 3d6+7)
Melee spiked chain (two handed, power attack) +7 ((two handed) 3d6+10)
Mass Combat
Melee spiked chain (two handed) +11

Speed 60 ft.
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 18, Con -, Int -, Wis 16, Cha 5
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 21
Skills Acrobatics +14, Climb +15, Escape Artist +3 , Perception +13 , Ride +3 , Stealth +3 , Swim +4
Languages Common
Gear studded leather, spiked chain (huge)

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Metal Body (Ex)
Beneath its skin, a war machine is largely composed of metal. It counts as a ferrous creature for the purposes of rusting grasp and other spells that have special effects on metal.
Sprint (Ex)
Once per hour, a war machine can move up to 10 times its normal speed when it charges
Body Blades (Ex)
Spikes and blades cover a war machine’s body. When another creature attacks it with handheld or natural weapons, the attacker takes 1d8 points of slashing and piercing damage. Incorporeal creatures and creatures using weapons with exceptional reach, such as longspears, do not take this damage. In addition, a war machine deals 1d8 points of piercing and slashing damage to a grabbed opponent with each successful grapple check.

MERCENARY - STANDARD CR 3

XP 800

Male human fighter (phalanx soldier) 4

NE Medium humanoid (human)

Init +2; Senses Perception +2
DEFENSE

AC 21, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +1 Dex, +3 shield)
hp 36 (4d10+8)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +1

OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee masterwork longsword +8 (1d8+3/19-20)
Ranged bolas +2 (1d4)
Melee sap +7 (1d6+3)
Melee masterwork glaive-guisarme +8 (1d10+3/x3)
Ranged net +2 (/none/x0)

Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
STATISTICS
Str 17, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +4; CMB +7; CMD 19 (20 vs. overrun) (20 vs. trip)

Feats Improved Shield Bash, Missile Shield, Phalanx Formation, Power Attack, Shield Focus, Shield Wall, Two-Weapon Fighting

Skills Acrobatics -3 , Acrobatics (Jump) -7 , Bluff +2 , Climb -2 , Disguise +1 , Escape Artist -3 , Fly -3 , Intimidate +6 , Perception +2 , Ride +2 , Sense Motive +1 , Stealth -3 , Survival +5 , Swim -2

Languages Common, Orc

SQ bonus feat, bonus feats, combat trick / improved shield bash, combat trick / power attack, combat trick / shield focus, combat trick / two-weapon fighting, phalanx fighting, skilled, stand firm, +1 bonus feat

Gear masterwork field plate, masterwork longsword, masterwork shield, heavy steel (shield spikes), bolas (2), sap, masterwork glaive-guisarme, net

SPECIAL ABILITIES

Bonus Feat Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.

Bonus Feats At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called "fighter bonus feats." Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

Combat Trick / Improved Shield Bash When attempting a shield bash attack, you can spend 5 stamina points to either wield a heavy shield as if it were a light weapon or gain a +2 bonus on the shield bash attack roll with a light shield. Whichever option you choose, the effect lasts until the start of your next turn.

Combat Trick / Power Attack When using this feat, you can spend 2 stamina points to gain the benefits and the hindrances of that feat until the end of your turn, instead of until your next turn.

Combat Trick / Shield Focus When an attack is made against you while you are using a shield, you can spend up to 2 stamina points. If you do, the shield's bonus to AC against that attack increases by an amount equal to the number of stamina points you spent.

Combat Trick / Two-Weapon Fighting You can spend any number of stamina points to reduce the penalty from Two-Weapon Fighting on attacks made with a weapon in your primary hand by 1 for every 2 stamina points you spent. This benefit lasts until the start of your next turn. You can't reduce the penalty below 0.

No Racial Subtype You have chosen no racial subtype.

Phalanx Fighting (Ex) At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon. This ability replaces armor training 1.

Skilled Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.

Stand Firm (Ex) At 2nd level, a phalanx soldier gains a +1 bonus to CMD against drag, overrun, and trip attempts. This bonus also applies on saves against trample attacks. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery.


I'm not touching the Warmachine. It's listed as human, yet it's a construct, and somehow it's using a 2-handed weapon two size categories larger than it should... for damage that's at the absolute limit for its CR, but AC for a CR 8-9, and significant unbypassable DR and other stuff... I'm not going to touch it. Just isn't worth programming in everything.

I did build the Phalanx group, though.

Phalanx Troop:

Unnamed Hero CR 9
XP 6,400
Phalanx troop
NE Medium humanoid (human, troop)
Init +2; Senses Perception +14
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 12, flat-footed 22 (+7 armor, +2 Dex, +5 shield)
hp 119 (14d8+28)
Fort +6, Ref +11, Will +6
Defensive Abilities troop traits
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee troop (3d6+3 plus trip)
Special Attacks tripping spears
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 17, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +10; CMB +13; CMD 25 (can't be bull rushed, can't be tricked, can't be disarmed, can't be dragged, can't be grappled, can't be repositioned, can't be tripped)
Feats Improved Shield Bash, Iron Will, Missile Shield[APG], Power Attack, Shield Focus, Shield Wall[APG], Two-weapon Fighting
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 to jump), Bluff +2, Disguise +2, Handle Animal +3, Intimidate +13, Perception +14, Sense Motive +3, Survival +4, Swim +4
Languages Common, Orc
SQ phalanx troop
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Immunity to Flanking You are immune to flanking.
Immunity to Staggered Immune to staggered.
Improved Shield Bash You still get your shield bonus while using Shield Bash.
Phalanx Troop (Ex) The troop attack of this creature gains +5-feet additional reach. The Phalanx troop also gains a +4 bonus to saves against trample attacks, and deals 2d6 additional damage against mounted opponents. Gain +2 hp per hit die.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Wall +2 to shield bonus if adj ally with same feat has a tower/heavy shield or +1 for smaller shields.
Tripping Spears: Troop Attack (Troop Attack) (Ex) Troop attack gains the trip property.
Troop Attack (3d6+3) Troop automatically deals listed damage to all creatures within reach or in troop's space at the end of the troop's move.
Troop Traits Immune to effects targeting specific number of creatures.
Vulnerability to Area Effects You are vulnerable (+50% damage) to spells and effects that damage an area.

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Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.

That's what I came up with. Damage is a bit low, but it has more hit points than average, and a better than average AC. Doesn't need most saves because of the troop's immunities, and has a neat gimmick with the extra reach and the trip property to its attack.


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Some monstrous troops I designed and Rogue Genius games published that might be what some of you are looking for.

The Legion of the Damned (an undead troop) should put a chill up your players' spines.


Attempt at Necrocraft Troop:
Medium Necrocraft Troop CR 9

NE Medium Undead
Init -1; Senses Darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +0

Defense
AC 13, touch 9, flat-footed 14 (-1 Dex, +4 Natural)
hp 91 (14d8+28)
Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +9
Defensive Abilities troop traits; Immune undead traits

Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (3d6+4)

Statistics
Str 19, Dex 9, Con--, Int--, Wis 10, Cha 13
Base Atk +10/+5; CMB +14; CMD 23 (can't be tripped)
Feats Toughness(B)
SQ Construction Points (Extra Strength x2[+4 Str, -4 Dex]), Vulnerability to Area Effects

Notes:

Average Damage is 14.5, target is 30 on low end; increasing HD to 16 would raise average up to 18.

Armor Class is 13 while target is 23. No real solution without massively pumping Dexterity or adding 5 more CP to get +6 Natural Armor and +4 Armor, which should also raise the CR of the base Necrocraft.

HP is 91. Target is 115 hp. Increasing Cha by 1 and adding another HD would bump it up to 112 hp. Further increasing HD by 1 to reach HD 16 and the next die of Troop Attack damage would yield 120 hp.
Either seems like it would work, though having low AC for its CR would suggest going higher on HP, at least in other circumstances.

Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Benjamin Medrano wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I'm amazed that there don't appear to be any zombie troop stats available anywhere. Seems like that would have been an obvious fantasy staple to lead with.
... You know, you're right. After I finish my writing for today, I think it's time to do both a skeleton and zombie troop. *adds to list*

I figure I may as well share the products of my efforts with Herolab. I'm not saying these are the most balanced in the world, but I got them as close to the target numbers of their CRs as I could. Each troop was based off the basic skeletons, zombies, and skeletal champions from the Bestiary.

** spoiler omitted **...

I think I follow basically everything you did up until the Ability Scores of those Undead Troops.

Did you start with the basics for a Human Zombie or Human Skeleton and then alter their Strength and Charisma until they were high enough to give the Average Damage and HP targets for their CR?

Also, how would you incorporate something like Bloody Skeletons and/or Burning Skeletons? Make a CR 7 Troop of Bloody Burning Skeletons (CR 1 + 6 for Troopification)? Make a CR 5 Troop of Skeletons and then add the Bloody and/or Burning abilities onto them, modifying the effective CR to 6 or 7?

Cevah wrote:

The Troop Subtype page has all you need.

The troop is essentially played as a swarm, but of larger creatures.

Some samples are available here. [includes: Axers, Forest Guardians, Imperial Archers, Imperial Infantry, Imperial Phalanx, Inquisitor, Skirmishers, and Testudo]

/cevah

Well, it doesn't actually say you're supposed to default back to the Swarm damage for its HD. I had to search around and follow a few discussion threads like this one in order to find out that you're supposed to use Swarm damage for them.

It also doesn't really offer any guidelines or idea at all about what sort of bump in CR making something into a Troop would have or if there is supposed to be such a thing, as when Benjamin Medrano pointed out that it seemed to generally increase CR by 6 in the example Troops.


Il Fiore wrote:


I think I follow basically everything you did up until the Ability Scores of those Undead Troops.

Did you start with the basics for a Human Zombie or Human Skeleton and then alter their Strength and Charisma until they were high enough to give the Average Damage and HP targets for their CR?

Also, how would you incorporate something like Bloody Skeletons and/or Burning Skeletons? Make a CR 7 Troop of Bloody Burning Skeletons (CR 1 + 6 for Troopification)? Make a CR 5 Troop of Skeletons and then add the Bloody and/or Burning abilities onto them, modifying the effective CR to 6 or 7?

You pretty much got it. I was primarily looking to get their numbers in the right neighborhood for their CR, though damage could be a bit low for their immunities, as could their saves (except maybe Reflex, due to the AOE vulnerability).

For something like the bloody or burning template, I'd have to think a bit. I'd look at the numbers just applying it to the whole troop, and see if it looks right. If it doesn't, I'd probably start making changes with special abilities. Like, for Bloody, I'd probably give Regen to simulate some of the skeletons dying and getting back up, and others healing from Fast Healing. For burning, I'd have to decide if the damage was enough, but I'd probably instead go with an ability of Mobile Furnace (deals fire damage to every creature adjacent, increased if they're in its area), and Chain Reaction, which is a more potent 'self-detonation' for when the troop dies.

Mind, that's just how I'd do it. There's no real right way to do it, but it seems like they give each troop between 1 and 3 special abilities, so I just go for something that feels thematic, and especially appropriate to their innate abilities/spells/feats.


So Skirmishers and Imperial Archers seem to have different damage for their volley attacks than their Troop damage.

Is there a clear reason why that is so?

Where are the general rules for Volley attacks and accounting for special abilities, such as the Ravenous Horde ability that the Zombie Troop has? So far I've been pointed at the Mass Combat Rules for determining that, but those don't even address Volleys or, really, anything having to do with Creatures with the Troop subtype as far as I can tell.

Any thoughts on my attempt at starting to make a Troop of Medium-sized Necrocraft?

Oh, right, and how exactly does the space occupied by a Troop change when the individual creatures comprising it are Large? Huge?


I'm trying to keep track of the thread on my phone, but when I'm home from Paizocon I'll try to answer your questions.

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