I am currently playing a druid I am seeing that the tetori will have a higher CMD but I fail to see how its CMB will be any higher. It seems like Druids can have a higher CMB along with an earlier constrict and larger size. Is a grappling focused druid better at grappling than a tetori? I'm failing to see where the Tetori is head and shoulders above a grappling druid. One doesn't get the bonus feats a tetori gets but he can get the essential feats such as improved/greater grappling if he's strictly specing for grappling anyways as is the case with my current druid. Could someone sell me on why a tetori is vastly superior at grappling than the druid counterpart.
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The tetori retains the ability to make AoOs while grappled, can stop casters from teleporting, plane shifting, or using freedom of movement to escape a grapple, and will be better able to keep the grapple active once it's applied.
The Druid will be a better character overall with full ninth level casting, a pet, and versatile wild shape forms. But for pure grappling, tetori is best because it shuts down magical escapes.
Apples and oranges, they both have strengths and weaknesses, and make strong grapplers. There is no one true build. Imbicatus summed it up quite well.
To expand on what Imbicatus said (which is 100% correct) it sort of depends on how the social contract of grappling is going to play out.
Specifically, grappling is very powerful and a good grappler can shut down whomever they grapple pretty quickly. So to force players to deviate from this first order optimal solution for every antagonist, the GM or the adventure is going to eventually introduce things that are hard or impossible to grapple.
The Tetori has counter-countermeasures against these grappling countermeasures, but few avenues if their grappling otherwise does not apply.
The grappling druid has relatively few counter-contermeasures to keep their grappling effective, but has a lot of other stuff they can do when grappling won't work.
Basically the choice between the two depends on "how much do you trust the GM to not render you useless in a fight" and "what character do you really want to play." After all, "Macho Man" Randy Savage does not turn into a Giant Octopus.
I'm sure someone may have told you this before, but playing a pure grappler can drain the fun for the group, the GM, and yourself if this is a long running home game. Like the sleep hex witch the same overpowering tactic over and over gets dry for everyone involved, especially so if you specialize to the point that it becomes always the correct tactic.
I've done the hyper specialized grappler in PFS where there is a cycle to the players, the GMs, and the character I'm playing. So we all get fed up with it slower, It became my "I'm stressed and just want to ROLFSTOMP something tonight" character.
Since you are just learning about grappling it may be more fun to just take a surface investment in grappling (Imp., Greater.), so that it becomes a good option your character has instead of the only option your character has. A partially invested grappler will still do great against casters, two handed weapon fighters, flying enemies, and enemies you want alive.
Hmm yes I an finding my grappling druid to be quite powerful when I grapple, nobody can escape it. However I did spend every feat to become that way, and still capable of hitting hard in wild shape form and have an animal companion. Druids are very strong it seems.
The tetori retains the ability to make AoOs while grappled, can stop casters from teleporting, plane shifting, or using freedom of movement to escape a grapple, and will be better able to keep the grapple active once it's applied.
The Druid will be a better character overall with full ninth level casting, a pet, and versatile wild shape forms. But for pure grappling, tetori is best because it shuts down magical escapes.
Hmm good summary thank you, how does a tetori inflict damage in the grapple? Should he always go for a pin and then attack? Does he get only one attack like a druid after he chooses to maintain the grapple? I have heard also that druids peak in the mid game there animal form doesn't get any stronger say beyond 10 or 12, does the tetori scale better? Or does he fall off also?
if you hit you immediately make grapple check with nearly 100% success rate (grab).
Success rate can't be higher than 95% as a natural "1" is always a failure for combat maneuver checks.
2. You maintain as a move action [...]
3. You maintain as a swift action [...]
Second and subsequent rounds:
You maintain grapple three times, [...]
Which unfortunately increases your chances to roll a natural 1 and fail to maintain the grapple.
In the routine you described, you rolled 6 grapple checks in 2 rounds. That's a 26.5% chance of rolling at least one natural "1".
if you hit you immediately make grapple check with nearly 100% success rate (grab).Success rate can't be higher than 95% as a natural "1" is always a failure for combat maneuver checks.
2. You maintain as a move action [...]
3. You maintain as a swift action [...]
Second and subsequent rounds:
You maintain grapple three times, [...]Which unfortunately increases your chances to roll a natural 1 and fail to maintain the grapple.
In the routine you described, you rolled 6 grapple checks in 2 rounds. That's a 26.5% chance of rolling at least one natural "1".
If you maintain successfully at least once the grapple continues for another round. Failing a grapple check to maintain only allows the opponent to break out if you can only make one grapple check that round.
It is however worth noting that grab doesn't let you deal extra damage because you made a successful grapple check, though constrict ability does deal damage on each successful grapple check.
Failing a grapple check to maintain only allows the opponent to break out if you can only make one grapple check that round.
My point was to mitigate the "damage estimation", which should be reduced by at least 25% (failing to maintain the grapple does not allow you to deal damage). I should have been more explicit.
Anyway, since I am here, I have a few questions:
Greater Grapple lets you roll to maintain the grapple as a move action. If you succeed, the course of actions is pretty clear. But what happen if you fail?
1. Does it release the grapple immediately? I would say so.
2. Then, how do you get a "retry" as a standard action (from the Greater Grapple feat, you can make 2 checks and only need to succeed once)?
3. Should you decide, at the beginning of your turn, if you want to make one or two grapple checks?
4. If you make two checks, succeeding as a standard action and failing as a move action, does it trigger Rapid Grappler? RAW would say No (« Whenever you use Greater Grapple to successfully maintain a grapple as a move action,[...]»).