Rogue trait: Ledge Walker

[Splendor]

Quote:

Cross Narrow Surfaces/Uneven Ground

First, you can use Acrobatics to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling. A successful check allows you to move at half speed across such surfaces—only one check is needed per round. Use the following table to determine the base DC, which is then modified by the Acrobatics skill modifiers noted below. While you are using Acrobatics in this way, you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any). If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.

Quote:

Uncanny Dodge

Starting at 4th level, a rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex...

So if balancing you're flat-footed unless you have uncanny dodge.

Then what is the point of the rouge talent 'ledge walker'?

Quote:

Ledge Walker

This ability allows a rogue to move along narrow surfaces at full speed using the Acrobatics skill without penalty. In addition, a rogue with this talent is not flat-footed when using Acrobatics to move along narrow surfaces.

Would it just be for rogue archetypes who've switched out uncanny dodge?

[Squiggit]

The second part is only useful for archetypes that trade out uncanny dodge, but being able to move twice as fast is still potentially useful for other rogues too.

[Splendor]

But moving at full speed just increases the DC by 5.
And the benefit is only when on "narrow surfaces". Wouldn't help you on balance checks for anything else (ice fields, rubble, underbrush).

[Squiggit]

Yeah it's not a very good rogue talent.

[Splendor]

I was just making sure I wasn't missing something somewhere that said Uncanny Dodge didn't apply when balancing.

[rainzax]

I'm pretty sure "cannot be caught flat-footed" is in regards to being surprised by your enemies.

So a Rogue with Uncanny Dodge is till considered flat-footed when balancing or climbing, for example.

[TriOmegaZero]

No, Uncanny Dodge protects against all instances of flat-footed.

[Daw]

TOZ,
You could argue that "You are considered Flat Footed" is a different thing than being "Caught Flat Footed". I would certainly argue it that way. If your table plays it differently, it doesn't bother me. I personally don't care how PFS plays it.

[TOZ]

Daw wrote:

You could argue that "You are considered Flat Footed" is a different thing than being "Caught Flat Footed".

What I think of that argument cannot be broadcast on this forum.

Get you a FAQ answer on that and I'll admit to being wrong. But it has jack all to do with PFS.

[Andy Brown]

I can see an argument for "flat footed due to surprise" being different to "flat footed due to concentrating on not falling off a beam".
However, the rules don't make any distinction between different reasons for being flatfooted that I'm aware of.

[rainzax]

For the sake of argument, my reasoning is threefold.

1) It's called Uncanny Dodge so I claim "intent" with this argument (you don't "dodge" a beam or wall while you traverse it).
2) The specific language "caught flat-footed" I read as an interaction between two characters - not as between a character and an obstacle (the beam or wall does not "catch" anybody flat-footed).
3) The Rogue Talent Ledge Walker was printed in the CRB well before the concept of "trading away to archetypes" existed - and then printed again in Pathfinder Unchained - so from this I infer that a partially redundant Rogue Talent was not printed twice in the very same book as the class it supports (the Rogue).

Curious to hear the reasoning of the other side though...

[Ravingdork]

I suspect the "Cross Narrow Surfaces/Uneven Ground" rules are simply in error. The intent of it was probably to say that you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, not that you were flat-footed. I'm willing to bet it's just a flub that slipped by the editors.

[Avoron]

Ravingdork wrote:

I suspect the "Cross Narrow Surfaces/Uneven Ground" rules are simply in error. The intent of it was probably to say that you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC, not that you were flat-footed. I'm willing to bet it's just a flub that slipped by the editors.

But... but... my beloved grease-ing Sap Masters!

[Murdock Mudeater]

Splendor wrote:

Quote:

Ledge Walker

This ability allows a rogue to move along narrow surfaces at full speed using the Acrobatics skill without penalty. In addition, a rogue with this talent is not flat-footed when using Acrobatics to move along narrow surfaces.

Would it just be for rogue archetypes who've switched out uncanny dodge?

Rogues aren't the only ones with access with rogue talents. And there is some reasonable debate between being caught flat footed by a surprise, and purposely putting your character in a situation where they are flat footed.

Anyway, it's one of those Talents that really is amazing only when your GM/setting has the situation come up often. A bad talent for PFS and other setting where they have a variety of terrain options, but a strong talent option if moving along narrow surfaces is something that comes up very often.

The humor with this sort of ability is to get a 30ft pole and lay it on an icy surface, then run across to the opponent (because that is easier for rogues with this talent...).

[Daw]

So this ability tied with a Rod of Lordly Might ladder function could get appropriately silly, right?