Custom Magic Items for Crafting Rogue

[Halek]

I am in a campaign with a dm allowing custom crafting options and a rogue in the party interested in crafting using the master craftsmen feat and profession blacksmith as his skill.

Giving him invisibility is preferred.

We will strictly be following the formula for crafting items. What would be the best use of around 5000 gold.

He is a dex based dervish dance rogue using a scimitar.

[My Self]

Make an unlimited-use Quick Runner's Shirt. It costs 1000 gp normally, but crafting will bring that to 500. It is a use-activated charges per day item with 1 charge per day, so the price is 1/5 of the price of a 5-charge or unlimited-use version. Thus, the cost to buy would be about 5000 gp, but the cost to craft should be 2500 gp.

Invisibility is a bit costlier. A wand of it at minimum CL costs 4500 gp to buy, and that is the 50-charge, spell trigger version. To get a command word version, you need to multiply that price by 2.4. To get a constant or use-activated one, you need 2.666 times the gold. This puts a 10800 or 12000 gp pricetag on the item, which pushes it out of your reach, even if you craft it for half.

But wait- there's more. Your GM is within all his rights to avoid giving you permanent invisibility for 12000 (6000). He could rule that you need to reactivate the item as a standard action, and to get a super-permanent invisibility, you need to calculate your price on Greater Invisibility. Or that 5000 gp is too cheap for the ability to move as a swift action. But if he lets you take it, you should get the Quick Runner's shirt thing.

[_Ozy_]

Quote:

Or that 5000 gp is too cheap for the ability to move as a swift action. But if he lets you take it, you should get the Quick Runner's shirt thing.

Yeah, that's waaaaaay too cheap for an unlimited use item like that. Also, since he's using the Master Craftsman feat with Craft Blacksmith, he's going to justify using Craft: Blacksmith to make each item.

This might be hard to justify for a shirt.

Which craft feat did you take, Arms & Armor, or Wondrous Items?

[Dastis]

Strict crafting formula? Oh my

Check out wand guides. Many 1st level spells are totally worth the price for permanent on an item: 2000gp with a multiplier up to x4. Vanish, expeditious retreat, protection from evil, resist energy(ranger list), keep watch, shield, heightened awareness.

Look into crafting staffs for your wizard friends. Whenever you do add 2 extra spells at the highest level with each cast of them taking 10 charges

If you have a paladin, ranger, hunter, or summoner have somebody pick up craft wand. Then just look at all those lovely early entry spells

Skill modifiers are super super cheap. Investing in stealth, perception, umd, insert favorite skill is worth the investment until at least +5

[Wonderstell]

Man, I just can't get enough of these "broken-custom-items" threads.
If you'll strictly be using the crafting formulas, then just craft a couple of broken magic items with continuous 1-st level spells.

...like the pre-errata Bracers of Falcon's Aim.

But here's how you'll get invisibility (usable in combat).

Amulet of the Blooded: Fey wrote:

This drop of amber hangs on a silk cord. The wearer can turn invisible for 9 rounds per day (as greater invisibility). The rounds don’t need to be consecutive. Three times per day, the wearer can make a melee touch attack to cause a creature to burst out laughing. That creature can take only a move action, but can defend itself normally. Once a creature has been affected by this laughter, it is immune to it for 24 hours. This is a mind-affecting effect. Moderate illusion; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item; Spells greater invisibility, hideous laughter.

/.../ creator must be sorcerer with the fey bloodline; Cost: 5,000 gp

This amulet has a crafting cost of exactly 5,000 gp. Normally, 9 rounds of (Use-activated) greater invisibility per day would have a market price of 14,400 gp, if we assume it follows the standard set by the Boots of Speed. So rather than imagining a new item you would get better value by re-skinning this existing item into something you can create with Profession: Blacksmith.

If you're not up to that we can create a cheaper item based on Vanish (instead of invisibility), but if you have more than 1 attack per round Greater Invisibility is to prefer.

10 rounds of vanish per day, with every round activated as a free action would have a market price of:
2000x1x10x(1/5)=4000 gp.
Use-Activated x Spell Level x Caster Level x charges per day

Which would leave the Rogue with 3,000 gp left to craft with.

[Halek]

We are also allowed to use the cost reducers from having the magic item be class and skill specific. Any nonsense to make him less squishy?

[Rhaleroad]

You should still be limited by the rule of costing items by comparing to similar items/effect. So no...the unlimited quick runners shirt would not be that cheap. You want an invisibility item? Look at the price of a ring of invisibility, and forge ring takes a much higher lvl feat, you can't just make an unlimited vanish item with craft wondrous, it is NOT comparable at all. Ring of Invis (unlimited) would be 10k to make, no matter how you make it, invis or vanish..and still takes a 7th lvl feat.

Too many people trying to use the base cost formulas and then ignoring the other part of crafting cost being compare to other prices.

Also, using crafting with Feat/Blacksmithing still requires access to any spells needed cast every day. So scrolls with UMD or a friend caster that has the spell. This makes items requiring known feats and class abilities even harder.

Good luck though, some GMs let anything go.

[Halek]

Rhaleroad wrote:

You should still be limited by the rule of costing items by comparing to similar items/effect. So no...the unlimited quick runners shirt would not be that cheap. You want an invisibility item? Look at the price of a ring of invisibility, and forge ring takes a much higher lvl feat, you can't just make an unlimited vanish item with craft wondrous, it is NOT comparable at all. Ring of Invis (unlimited) would be 10k to make, no matter how you make it, invis or vanish..and still takes a 7th lvl feat.

Too many people trying to use the base cost formulas and then ignoring the other part of crafting cost being compare to other prices.

Also, using crafting with Feat/Blacksmithing still requires access to any spells needed cast every day. So scrolls with UMD or a friend caster that has the spell. This makes items requiring known feats and class abilities even harder.

Good luck though, some GMs let anything go.

We were told to use the formula. I am sorry if I didn't make this clear. Also no we just boost the dc by 5.

Any way to boost the damage on his scimitar besides just more ++s?

[Claxon]

Halek wrote:

We are also allowed to use the cost reducers from having the magic item be class and skill specific. Any nonsense to make him less squishy?

Either your GM has no idea what they're doing, or has every idea what they're doing and your campaign is about to be hell.

[Wonderstell]

Halek wrote:

Any way to boost the damage on his scimitar besides just more ++s?

Nah, +s is the best way to increase accuracy/damage. You could craft some Deliquescent Gloves to grant his weapon the corrosive ability (+1d6 acid dmg) for 8,000 gp market price.

...btw, is there a reason he is playing vanilla rogue? As it is, he's wasting two feats on Weapon Finesse/Dervish Dance when he would have gotten them for free as an Unchained Rogue.
Unchained is a straight upgrade and can take any archetype the vanilla rogue can take, so there really isn't any reason to not play it.

I'd recommend retraining his HP to maximum if he's having health problems. And just crafting a +2 Con item. Like, a +2 Dex, +2 Con belt would normally have a market price of 10,000 gp, but if you stack the price reductions and craft it yourself it would only cost 3000 gp.
And if you have time to spare you can use the downtime rules to earn capital and halve the cost of retraining and crafting magic items.

[Halek]

Claxon wrote:

Halek wrote:

We are also allowed to use the cost reducers from having the magic item be class and skill specific. Any nonsense to make him less squishy?

Either your GM has no idea what they're doing, or has every idea what they're doing and your campaign is about to be hell.

I suspect the second one. We have two parties running in the same campaign and the first lost half their party and then died on their second meeting.

[Claxon]

Halek wrote:

Claxon wrote:

Halek wrote:

We are also allowed to use the cost reducers from having the magic item be class and skill specific. Any nonsense to make him less squishy?

Either your GM has no idea what they're doing, or has every idea what they're doing and your campaign is about to be hell.

I suspect the second one. We have two parties running in the same campaign and the first lost half their party and then died on their second meeting.

I calls it like I see it.

When I see a GM suggesting to abuse custom item crafting rules I know they're either an idiot or sadist.

[_Ozy_]

Halek wrote:

Rhaleroad wrote:

You should still be limited by the rule of costing items by comparing to similar items/effect. So no...the unlimited quick runners shirt would not be that cheap. You want an invisibility item? Look at the price of a ring of invisibility, and forge ring takes a much higher lvl feat, you can't just make an unlimited vanish item with craft wondrous, it is NOT comparable at all. Ring of Invis (unlimited) would be 10k to make, no matter how you make it, invis or vanish..and still takes a 7th lvl feat.

Too many people trying to use the base cost formulas and then ignoring the other part of crafting cost being compare to other prices.

Also, using crafting with Feat/Blacksmithing still requires access to any spells needed cast every day. So scrolls with UMD or a friend caster that has the spell. This makes items requiring known feats and class abilities even harder.

Good luck though, some GMs let anything go.

We were told to use the formula. I am sorry if I didn't make this clear. Also no we just boost the dc by 5.

Any way to boost the damage on his scimitar besides just more ++s?

For reals? Any two of the following:

Constant True Strike (if you don't need an action to activate)
Constant Bless Weapon (auto confirm crits against evil)
Constant Longarm
Constant Shield
Constant Vanish
Constant Windy Escape
Constant Grace
Unlimited Cure Light Wounds

If your GM insists on using the formula straight, you should be able to break the game with crafting without much trouble at all.

[My Self]

Constant True Strike or Shield wouldn't work, since constant True Strike is directly given example of what shouldn't work with crafting. Constant Vanish should probably be compared to constant Invisibility. Constant Shield counts as an AC bonus in the same vein that constant True Strike counts as a hit bonus. I suspect you can't have Windy Escape as a constant, since it is an instantaneous effect. It would have to be a use-activated thing.

Unlimited Cure Light Wounds would be much better, since it's basically 2 and 2/3 wands of Cure Light Wounds.

I'd be more afraid of a constant Infernal Healing. Reading pedantically and selectively, you could argue that it only costs 2000 (1000 to craft) if it's a slotted item, since it's a 1st level spell, CL 1, and does not last for a duration "measured in rounds" (4x cost), nor in "1 minute/level" (2x cost). Moreover, you could argue that the Boots of the Earth, a 5000 gp slotted item that grants fast healing and CMD bonuses, counts as a similar item, and that 2000 gp for only fast healing is reasonably priced (it's not). But even as a 4000 (2000 to craft) gp item, by multiplying the cost by 2 for it having a duration measured in minutes, it's still a steal. Oh, and you get the added upside of always detecting as evil, since getting fast healing for this price should be a sin.

I guess if you wanted to be really abusive, you could go and collect a bunch of misc +1 AC/Attack/save/stat bonuses from sources that don't normally grant them. The base cost of an AC/attack/save/stat bonus is the bonus squared times some multiplier, the multiplier being a bit higher for misc bonuses. The cost to have a slotted item with multiple of a similar bonus costs 1x, 1.5x, 1.5x, etc. - 1x for the first bonus, and 1.5x for the later ones. The cost of something unslotted with multiple similar of bonuses is 2x, 1.5x, 1x, 1x, etc. per bonus - the first bonus costs double, the second costs 1.5x, and subsequent ones cost regular price. When you get to 4 bonuses, having an unslotted item is competitive with a slotted one pricewise, and has the bonuses and drawbacks of being unslotted. Past 4, it's a discount to have an unslotted item. If you really wanted to, you could go off plundering different bonus types to get an unusually large bonus for an unusually low price.

Quick note: An unslotted item costs 2x. The cost of a set of similar bonuses on an unslotted item costs 1x for the first, 0.75x for the second, and 0.5x for later bonuses. The numbers above are the product of this.

Let's start with AC. The regular magic item AC bonuses are Armor (enhancement), Shield (enhancement), Deflection, and Natural Armor. However, Dodge (maybe), Insight, Luck, Morale (There's a spell that does this), Profane, Sacred, Shield, and Size bonuses are also possible.

For attacks, Enhancement and Racial are the regular ones, while Circumstance, Competence, Insight, Luck, Morale, and Size bonuses can boost your hit chance.

For stats. Enhancement, Inherent, and Racial are the regular ones, while Alchemical, Profane, Sacred, and Size can also help.

With AC, let's say that you had an item that gives you a +1 Dodge, Insight, Luck, Morale, Profane, Sacred, Shield, and Size bonus to AC. The price multiplier for AC items is 2500*the bonus squared. An item with all the bonuses listed would cost (2+1.5+1+1+1+1+1+1)*2500 gp, and would be an unslotted item. However, it would provide a net bonus of +8 AC, assuming you didn't use a shield. This could cost a net 23750 gp (or half to craft), which is a bit much for your current level, but at higher levels, this is cheaper than getting a set of +5 armor. Not only that, but it's straight-up better than getting a set of Darkleaf Cloth +5 Leather armor - 1 more AC, no spell failure chance, and cheaper overall. The bonus is multiplied by 4 if you want to double it, but it remains somewhat competitive, since you can increase your AC by 10 at a bit cheaper than enhanced armor, while bonus AC from armor can't actually get that high. Basically, if you really abuse the variety of bonuses, you can get really big numbers. Because you're abusing the system.

But of course, this requires a very, very liberal reading of the rules. Expect your GM to veto.

[_Ozy_]

My Self wrote:

Constant True Strike or Shield wouldn't work, since constant True Strike is directly given example of what shouldn't work with crafting. Constant Vanish should probably be compared to constant Invisibility. Constant Shield counts as an AC bonus in the same vein that constant True Strike counts as a hit bonus. I suspect you can't have Windy Escape as a constant, since it is an instantaneous effect. It would have to be a use-activated thing.

The whole point is that the GM is using the straight formula, so examples of 'what wouldn't work because of existing items' just doesn't apply in this particular, crazy abusive but GM sanctioned, case.