Because a mithral tower shield only weighs 22 pounds in pathfinder...
Also, I doubt that a tower shield is a solid hunks of steel.
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Oh sure, realism makes this ridiculous, I was just laughing that at the listed weight of that shield it would be thinner than the tablet I am posting from.Because a mithral tower shield only weighs 22 pounds in pathfinder...
Also, I doubt that a tower shield is a solid hunks of steel.
I may be mistaken but the description in CRB notes that the shield is wooden.
Steel, being much stronger than wood, would make the tower shield thinner for the same level of protection. A 1 inch thick steel shield (or for that matter, a 1 inch thick wood shield, except for maybe the center of the shield but not the whole thing) is ridiculous. Plate armor varied in thickness, but you were looking at around 1/8th of an inch at most.
From a rules standpoint, we do have2 things to work from. Light and heavy shields come in both wood and metal forms. Do a bit of math, and you see that the steel versions weigh between 1.2x the wood version (for light shields) to 1.5x (heavy version). Even if the ratio is larger for a steel tower shield, you are probably only looking at something 2x as heavy, so 90 pounds for a steel tower shield.
The idea that a tower shield can't be mithral because the description describes it as wooden is just RAWdicioulous. Hey, nice Greatsword. Whoa you say it's made out of coldiron? Sorry buddy, the weapon description doesn't say anything about metal, looks like it's made out of dreams and 2d6s- Good luck with the demons and stuff though!
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Vanilla tower shield (Masterwork)
45lbs
+4 AC
20 HP / 5 Hardness
Max Dex +2
ACP -9
Arcane Failure 50%
30GP +150GP to MW
Mithral tower shield (Masterwork by default)
22.5lbs
+4 AC
30HP / 15 Hardness
Max Dex +4
ACP -7
Arcane Failure 40%
30GP +1000GP
A 1 inch thick steel shield is so out of the realm of realism that it boggles the mind. I would scoff at a half inch shield. A quarter inch I would start to consider. Do you have a ruler handy?
Steel is strong stuff, and the curve of the shield would make it much more structurally sound against an attack.
Though the description says "wooden", and honestly I have no idea why darkwood doesn't boost max dex bonus, outside of RAW I see no reason why a tower shield couldn't be plated with metal. Having a darkwood base with a relatively thin sheet on mithral on top would realistically provide good protection at roughly normal weights.
Ex, half the thickness of the wood and make it darkwood, you've got 1/4 of the normal weight for 0,5" thickness. Then tack on 1/8" thick mithral on top. By OP, a tower shield has a volume of 1440 cubic inches, for 179 pounds when 1" thick and 100% mithral. Divide that by 8, you've got 22,375 pounds. Plus the 0,5" darkwood, which is half of half the base weight, so 11,25lb. New total weight: 33,625lb. Price: 30gp+10gp+1000gp = 1040gp
But this is firmly in homebrew territory.
I'm not sure why you are looking at rifle rounds? No PF character uses rifle rounds. And the firearms that are used target touch AC: so your tower shield isn't meant to be able to stop bullets as, mechanically, it offers no protection against firearms whatsoever.
I would also remark that converting wood for mithral, which is 3 times heavier, without any adjustment to thickness, should absolutely not, in any way, increase the max dex bonus or reduce the ACP. The new 1" thick pure mithral shield is considerably heavier and harder to wield than a standard tower shield.
Unlike 1/2" of darkwood plated with 1/8" of mithral, which would actually be lighter than a normal tower shield, as well as thinner, while offering at least as much stopping power as a regular wooden tower shield.
I'm not sure why you are looking at rifle rounds? No PF character uses rifle rounds. And the firearms that are used target touch AC: so your tower shield isn't meant to be able to stop bullets as, mechanically, it offers no protection against firearms whatsoever.
Normally, it doesn't give any protection. However, tower shields can grant cover, which does provide protection. It does require a standard action to use that way on each round you want the benefits however.
I may be mistaken but the description in CRB notes that the shield is wooden.Oh sure, realism makes this ridiculous, I was just laughing that at the listed weight of that shield it would be thinner than the tablet I am posting from.Because a mithral tower shield only weighs 22 pounds in pathfinder...
Also, I doubt that a tower shield is a solid hunks of steel.
Sure, but it's not unreasonable to assume that Tower Shields can't be made of metal, either. There's weight issue as to why they're not common, perhaps, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.
I mean, what about the Force Tower magic item from Ultimate Equipment? Sure, it's a specific magic item, but logically speaking, in order to craft it, you'd first need a Mithril Tower Shield to enhance the properties onto it, and if you can't craft a Mithril Tower Shield, then this item should never exist.
This isn't like Celestial Armor (or Celestial Plate Armor), where the magical properties are what give it the reduced benefit, the material that the item in question is made out of is what's granting the benefits.
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Omegamage--
I still find your calculations to be mind-bogglingly ridiculous. No medieval shield, tower or otherwise, was made to deal with modern high-velocity rifle rounds. As someone else already noted-- typical thickness for a steel shield (including tower shields) is probably 1/8" thick. Or, in the case of shields from the middle ages-- still wood with a thinner layer of metal over the top (usually). Also, try the calculations on just how freakin' heavy a "heavy" shield would actually BE if it were steel 1" thick!!!!!!!!
People made shields to resist sword and mace strikes, and maybe hits from arrows and crossbow bolts-- strong enough to do that? Strong enough to do the job.... figure THAT out, then figure a realistic thickness to accomplish that, and then let the rest of us know what you've found out-- maybe it'll make sense, maybe we'll find more holes in your conclusions.
30,000 gold for a Mithril Tower Shield?
Last I checked, the table lists Mithril Shields (which would include Tower Shields) as simply being a 1,000 gold markup that already includes Masterwork costs.
A very fair request, and one I have a basic answer for. The best comparison I have been able to find rates a 300 pound draw crossbow (common in the late middle ages and a workable equivalent for a high STR rated composite longbow) as possessing similar penetrating capabilities to a 7.62 NATO round. Said rounds can be stopped by 3/8 inch mild steel. This would halve the weight.Omegamage--
I still find your calculations to be mind-bogglingly ridiculous. No medieval shield, tower or otherwise, was made to deal with modern high-velocity rifle rounds.
That's still a ridiculous benchmark.
As you point out, the tower shield is based on the Roman septum. You're comparing it, first, against the penetration of a modern rifle round, and second, against a late medieval heavy crossbow, against which the tower shield would have been a remarkably anachronistic weapon.
A very fair request, and one I have a basic answer for. The best comparison I have been able to find rates a 300 pound draw crossbow (common in the late middle ages and a workable equivalent for a high STR rated composite longbow) as possessing similar penetrating capabilities to a 7.62 NATO round. Said rounds can be stopped by 3/8 inch mild steel. This would halve the weight.Omegamage--
I still find your calculations to be mind-bogglingly ridiculous. No medieval shield, tower or otherwise, was made to deal with modern high-velocity rifle rounds.
That's still a ridiculous benchmark.
As you point out, the tower shield is based on the Roman septum. You're comparing it, first, against the penetration of a modern rifle round, and second, against a late medieval heavy crossbow, against which the tower shield would have been a remarkably anachronistic weapon.
Indeed, when the crossbow came out, it was villified for, namely, allowing a common untrained conscript to slay even the most well-trained and armored warrior. Shields and armor did not grant complete protection from projectiles.
