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Like the strong, dark dwarven beer of the Ironcrags, the Midgard Kickstarter project has been a long time fermenting- and it's now live!
The dark roads await us, and the deep magic calls. This Kickstarter will bring a whole new world to 5th Edition, and expand the options for Pathfinder RPG players.
Be sure to check out the Midgard Campaign Setting: Dark Roads & Deep Magic kickstarter TODAY!!.
Backed for hardcover!
Feeding my addiction...
So, if I pledge $40 for the Pathfinder PDFs, do I get the Vampire chapter, or is that a hardcover exclusive?
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How do these Midgard books differ from the sourcebooks already out there? This seems more like a 5E kickstarter than one for Pathfinder.
Backed. Been a patron of Kobold Press/Open Design since before there was even a Kickstarter. They never disappoint ....
Huzza ! :-)
Hourra !*
Ur Ah!** :-D
*burgundy variant.
**draconic variant. Said to be used by the "Piercing Scale" Kobold Skirmishers of the Third Marothi Legion.
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@Rosita the Riveter - the hardcovers and PDFs will contain the same content, so you get the Vampire chapter no matter which you go with!
@Brother Fen - everything is expanded and updated, PLUS there will be plenty of brand new material!
This is very much a Pathfinder Kickstarter as well as 5E! The core of this is the huge hardcover Campaign Setting book, which is system neutral, and contains loads of info about Midgard, the gods, important NPCs, history, plot hooks etc.
Then, there are two companion hardcovers, one for 5E (Heroes Handbook) and one for Pathfinder (Player's Guide). Each of these books will contain all the system specific rules material you need to run a Midgard campaign using either Pathfinder or 5E.
After that, the stretch goals are really fairly divided up between both systems.
Kobold Press loves Pathfinder and Paizo and always will. But, 5E is also a great system, and the Kobolds simply want to bring Midgard to 5E fans for the first time ever, while at the same time collecting, updating, and vastly expanding the setting for Pathfinder fans. That's the reason for this Kickstarter!
@GM Rednal - did the above help at all?
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After that, the stretch goals are really fairly divided up between both systems.
Kobold Press loves Pathfinder and Paizo and always will. But, 5E is also a great system, and the Kobolds simply want to bring Midgard to 5E fans for the first time ever, while at the same time collecting, updating, and vastly expanding the setting for Pathfinder fans. That's the reason for this Kickstarter!
It feels like lately you've been more focused on 5E which is somewhat understandable as it's pretty bare with options from Wizards. But, I'd still like Book of Lairs that's PF compatible as that's one gorgeous book.
On to the kickstarter questions:
Are Eldritch Lairs PF or just 5E?
Are they included in the hardcover or a separate book?
I got hardcover/pdf for PF (50$ pledge), will it include adventures like Grimalkin? Or Eldritch Lairs? If not how do I add them?
On final note, I really wish you do as Frogs, and charge shipping when it's ready to ship, it would really help the international backers Having to pay 83$ now is a much bigger pain than paying 50 now, and 33$ later, and holy crap I just realized the hardcover will come in almost a year!
Backed for the Special Edition PFRPG Combo! Can't wait to see what you guys have in store for us. :)
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It feels like lately you've been more focused on 5E which is somewhat understandable as it's pretty bare with options from Wizards. But, I'd still like Book of Lairs that's PF compatible as that's one gorgeous book.
On to the kickstarter questions:
Are Eldritch Lairs PF or just 5E?
Are they included in the hardcover or a separate book?
I got hardcover/pdf for PF (50$ pledge), will it include adventures like Grimalkin? Or Eldritch Lairs? If not how do I add them?On final note, I really wish you do as Frogs, and charge shipping when it's ready to ship, it would really help the international backers Having to pay 83$ now is a much bigger pain than paying 50 now, and 33$ later, and holy crap I just realized the hardcover will come in almost a year!
Certainly understood that it seems like Kobold Press is focusing on 5E, but I can absolutely tell you Kobold Press is still very much "all in" for Pathfinder! In fact there's some very cool, Pathfinder only stuff on the horizon :)
Eldritch Lairs is currently 5E, though it *could* get a PF edition if there's enough support/demand (as in, if tons and tons of Pathfinder fans pledge!)
Eldritch Lairs would be a separate book
Not 100% sure about the other questions, but I'll bet I can get some far more knowledgeable than I to pop in ...
Oh, there's a Great New Update About the Revised Midgard Campaign Setting
New chapters, new maps, new heraldry, new art, advancing the timeline by a decade; there’s a lot going on in the revised Midgard Campaign book! While there’s too much new material to cover it all (it’s a whole book’s worth, after all), the link above give plenty of details!
Kobold Press
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CONFIRMING the following:
Eldritch Lairs is a separate 5E book, and not in the hardcover (that would be weird). We're hoping to add a PF version of Eldritch Lairs separately, but it's non-trivial to produce. Right now, the Pathfinder content focus is on the Midgard Player's Guide and the Campaign Setting book.
The Basic pledge rewards are the stripped down ones without the extras (people always ask for this, which is so strange to me but is clearly popular!).
The Deluxe and Special Edition pledges include the Grimalkin print and PDF.
We will probably move to charging shipping later, but I'll note that some backers hate this, and have accused publishers of false advertising, deceptive practices, etc for charging shipping later. So we've stuck with actual shipping costs charged during the Kickstarter for now.
Personally, I don't mind having shipping charged later as long as you clearly specify that's what you're doing and give an estimate for what it's likely to cost. It may also help if the pledges include a note on that, like "Shipping charges will be billed later via Backerkit, see FAQ" or something. It's pretty hard to accuse you of being deceptive when it's all stated right up-front...
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Wanted to say something here regarding continued Pathfinder support. As I said, the Kobolds absolutely LOVE Pathfinder and LOVE the folks at Paizo. Kobold Press absolutely wants to keep supporting Pathfinder for a long time to come!
However ..
A recent backer comment in the current Kickstarter asked the following question:
"Between this and the previous Kobold kickstarter Demon Cults and Secret Societies I am surprised at the low level of pathfinder pledges. The pledges are nearly 5:1 in favor of 5E. I wonder if at some point it will be not worth it for Kobold to offer Pathfinder support."
In both the Demon Cults Kickstarter, and so far in this one, the cold, hard reality is that 5E fans have pledged in *MUCH* higher numbers than the Pathfinder fans.
I guess really all I'm saying is this: if Pathfinder fans (and I count myself very much in that group!) want to see Pathfinder continue to get the support it deserves (no matter if it's by Kobold Press or any other 3PP) Pathfinder fans have got to SHOW the compaines that they are still there and willing to support those companies that want to keep making Pathfinder products!
So, in short ...
COME ON PATHFINDER FANS, REPRESENT!
@ Marc:
As was the case with Demon Cults, this kickstarter description & verbiage highlights 5e support. A lot of the terminology used, such as Deep Magic, already means something to Pathfinder fans, so it is unclear if we are buying new stuff - such as new "Deep Magic" content, or re-buying content we've already purchased - such as if we backed the Deep Magic kickstarter.
I've got just about everything I could find in the Midgard line for Pathfinder. I'd love to "represent" but as much as I love you Kobolds, I'm not backing for content I already have. Unfortunately, what's been revealed thus far doesn't provide much clarity for someone in my shoes.
I realize that must be a difficult line for a publisher to walk, but that's the reality from this Pathfinder-only GM.
I've put in my contribution for the Pathfinder PDFs. I just have the core Midgard book and the bestiary, so this should add much for me. I can't go for physical books, though. I can't store them and don't want to lug them (which is actually a big reason I don't play 5E).
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While I am definitely a supporter, at the Pathfinder special edition level, I do find it a little disappointing that four of the eleven stretch goals revealed so far are for currently 5E exclusive material, when it's a Kickstarter for two game systems.
5E and Pathfinder: Marc said that there are far more backers for 5e rather than PF. First, 5e is a newer system, which is far less supported from their main publisher than PF (which is overflowing with Paizo's options and adventures, to say nothing about 3pp community with additional myriad of options).
Secondly, both of mentioned kickstarters (this one and Demon Cults), already exist at least partially as options for PF, while they certainly don't for 5E. I am counting on getting new material now, but I already own the Campaign Setting so this isn't the "must buy this" as it was when I bought the first version. Same for Cults, while I still plan to buy them sometime when they're out, I held back on the kickstarter because money was tight then and getting almost half of same material I got with Southlands really wasn't an option then.
Lately when I get the Kobold Courier, all new products are for 5e. I mean I get it it's easier to convert bits of Deep Magic to 5e than make new content, but I believe there were only 3(!) PF-only products since you started supporting 5e(Priest, Trickster and Shadows of Dusk Queen), which are all Marc's which again leads me to believe that you as a company kinda ditched PF for small projects.
You made Tome of Beasts for 5e only which truthfully wouldn't have been nearly as successful for PF, but also made 5e exclusive Book of Lairs, which is a great book and something that neither Paizo nor other big 3pp publishers have for PF (at least that I'm aware of). And then again you make Lairs book for 5e only in this kickstarter, while I don't see anything exclusive for PF.
This a relatively big rant but I hope that you understand why some of these things make you have less PF backers then 5e.
Complicated and elitist pledge tiers for your kickstarters: You try to make a pledge option for almost all combinations of books, pdfs and still manage to miss many combinations. Wouldn't it be better to make some basic options and then add bonuses as add-on to the pledge and choose the system in a later survey? I cannot add Eldritch lairs now to my PF pledge for instance. Or add the player's guide pdf. Or if I want the Grimalkin and other (still locked) adventures, I have to back at the at least Deluxe tier, and I have no interest in players guide hardcover and I own Zobeck Gazeteer in print already.
It was similar to Southlands where I would've cashed out any price you asked for Through the Red Portal but it was in at least 230$ pledge which included leatherette edition, gold coin, print adventures, print bestiary and bestiary submission none of which interested me, but couldn't have been added to my print+pdf as an add-on.
I hope you don't mind but I'm gonna use Frog Gods example again, I can take a pledge for print+pdf+stretch goals for, then add an additional hardcover for 5e and additional pdf for S&W. I'm going to get surveyed when books are done for exact spread of the systems and be charged shipping when it's ready to ship. They have been using that payment scheme for I think last 4 or 5 kickstarters and I don't think they had any problems.
Please, take these as honest criticism from a big fan of your setting, and hope that you change some of your practices that I believe are distancing you from your customers.
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Lately when I get the Kobold Courier, all new products are for 5e. I mean I get it it's easier to convert bits of Deep Magic to 5e than make new content, but I believe there were only 3(!) PF-only products since you started supporting 5e(Priest, Trickster and Shadows of Dusk Queen), which are all Marc's which again leads me to believe that you as a company kinda ditched PF for small projects.
You are mistaken: Demon Cults & Secret Societies is a Pathfinder project, and was Pathfinder long before it got any 5E support. The fact that more 5E players supported it during the Kickstarter should not take away from the fact that 75% of the book is new material for Pathfinder (not from Southlands, or expanded substantially from Southlands). We placed a big bet on Pathfinder with this book.
At the same time, I think it's fair to say that the tepid support from Pathfinder players for DCSS was discouraging for the Kobold staff. As you say, Paizo has produced a LOT of great material, while WotC does much less. So in that sense I suspect it's just harder to get a Pathfinder player excited about anything new, because there's a much deeper content well to draw from already. We'll keep trying, but clearly we're not connecting as well as we'd like.
Complicated and elitist pledge tiers for your kickstarters: You try to make a pledge option for almost all combinations of books, pdfs and still manage to miss many combinations. Wouldn't it be better to make some basic options and then add bonuses as add-on to the pledge and...
Not sure what "elitist" means with respect to pledge tiers....? Maybe I missed something, but the Midgard Kickstarter offers both the core books at a low price to make them as accessible as possible. The retail MSRP will be about $10 higher than the Kickstarter price for the hardcovers.
Doing basic options + add-ons was exactly the plan. However, we added 1 more tier (not exactly "many"), because people did not like the Basic tier + add-ons solution and in fact made it very plain that they wanted more enough tiers and pre-built pledge options.
As to "not clear": There's a gigantic table that shows exactly what you get at each tier.
Ultimately, it's each person's call to make. My advice to people who don't like a particular Kickstarter is always the same: don't back it if it doesn't make you happy.
Can someone explain the difference between the Revised Setting and the Prior one? Is there any point, after getting the revised setting, in getting the older setting material?
You are mistaken: Demon Cults & Secret Societies is a Pathfinder project, and was Pathfinder long before it got any 5E support. The fact that more 5E players supported it during the Kickstarter should not take away from the fact that 75% of the book is new material for Pathfinder (not from Southlands, or expanded substantially from Southlands). We placed a big bet on Pathfinder with this book.
It wasn't that clear during the kickstarter, it seemed that like half the options were what we got from Southlands. Even when it is 25% like you say, I mean it's still less enticing for me to back it than someone who has none of that content. Again, I probably would have backed it if not for monetary issues.
At the same time, I think it's fair to say that the tepid support from Pathfinder players for DCSS was discouraging for the Kobold staff. As you say, Paizo has produced a LOT of great material, while WotC does much less. So in that sense I suspect it's just harder to get a Pathfinder player excited about anything new, because there's a much deeper content well to draw from already. We'll keep trying, but clearly we're not connecting as well as we'd like.
I am genuinely sad for that. Midgard is my favorite setting (I'm also basing my homebrew mish-mash on it), I definitely don't want lesser support for PF.
Not sure what "elitist" means with respect to pledge tiers....? Maybe I missed something, but the Midgard Kickstarter offers both the core books at a low price to make them as accessible as possible. The retail MSRP will be about $10 higher than the Kickstarter price for the hardcovers.
Doing basic options + add-ons was exactly the plan. However, we added 1 more tier (not exactly "many"), because people did not like the Basic tier + add-ons solution and in fact made it very plain that they wanted more enough tiers and pre-built pledge options.
I gave precise examples. Like adding Players Guide pdf (only pdf) to campaign setting hardcover+pdf pledge. Or adding Grimalkin to any tier below Deluxe. And sadness that was Through the Red Portal in Southlands (this is what I meant by elitist, that I have to be a specific high pledge tier, which includes lots of things I don't want, to select some rewards). Basically, you lack add-on options to tiers now (at least I'm not seeing them).
As to "not clear": There's a gigantic table that shows exactly what you get at each tier.
It helps :D
Ultimately, it's each person's call to make. My advice to people who don't like a particular Kickstarter is always the same: don't back it if it doesn't make you happy.
It's not that I wont back it, it's that I would pledge more if I could organize add-ons to my wishes. And if we the PF backers had Eldritch Lairs to pick up.
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Can someone explain the difference between the Revised Setting and the Prior one? Is there any point, after getting the revised setting, in getting the older setting material?
Good question!
This new, revised edition includes the original material where appropriate (such as Ley Line rules for Pathfinder). For 5E, the material is pretty much all new or consolidated from smaller sources (such as the Deep Magic: Ley Lines material that was PDF-only before). The new edition also will have loads of awesome, brand new art and an updated layout.
It is basically the 2nd Edition of the setting, and stands alone. You don't need the older version of the setting at all. Much like the Gray Box of the Forgotten Realms was the original appearance of that setting, and later versions of FR built on that foundation. You can go back to the Gray Box FR materials, or previous versions of Greyhawk for that matter, for reference or for history, but it certainly isn't required.
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Can someone explain the difference between the Revised Setting and the Prior one? Is there any point, after getting the revised setting, in getting the older setting material?
Sure! More about the Revised Midgard Campaign Setting.
For older material, yes, it's absolutely worth it to pick up older material for Pathfinder Midgard campaigns. I would especially recommend Streets of Zobeck, Tales of the Old Margreve, Northlands, Midgard Legends, and Journeys to the West, but there's tons of additional adventures and sourcebooks on the setting available right here at Paizo.
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Like adding Players Guide pdf (only pdf) to campaign setting hardcover+pdf pledge. Or adding Grimalkin to any tier below Deluxe. And sadness that was Through the Red Portal in Southlands (this is what I meant by elitist, that I have to be a specific high pledge tier, which includes lots of things I don't want, to select some rewards). Basically, you lack add-on options to tiers now (at least I'm not seeing them).
What is stopping you from adding a Player's Guide PDF to the hardcover + PDF? That's part of the plan through Backerkit, and you can add the pledge amount for it now, or wait and add it in the survey stage (BackerKit is good for spreading out the costs into 2 times rather than 1).
It's not that I wont back it, it's that I would pledge more if I could organize add-ons to my wishes. And if we the PF backers had Eldritch Lairs to pick up.
I'm unclear on why you can't organize add-ons to your wishes. The survey/BackerKit stage is about exactly that sort of customization.
For Eldritch Lairs, I asked three of the regular Kobold Press/Paizo Pathfinder designers about a conversion. So far, no one has taken me up on it, and I was not willing to delay the KS launch waiting on this item. One of the dangers of any dual-system project is, of course, that the systems are different, and what's good for one group of players isn't always great for another. Is there really a shortage of short PF adventures? My impression is that PFS has this covered with hundreds of scenarios.
What is stopping you from adding a Player's Guide PDF to the hardcover + PDF? That's part of the plan through Backerkit, and you can add the pledge amount for it now, or wait and add it in the survey stage (BackerKit is good for spreading out the costs into 2 times rather than 1).
I'm unclear on why you can't organize add-ons to your wishes. The survey/BackerKit stage is about exactly that sort of customization.
Ok so I could add Players Guide pdf now (for I'm guessing 19$), or I could add it to backer-kit at the later date. Grimalkin and the rest of possibly unlocked adventures?
For Eldritch Lairs, I asked three of the regular Kobold Press/Paizo Pathfinder designers about a conversion. So far, no one has taken me up on it, and I was not willing to delay the KS launch waiting on this item. One of the dangers of any dual-system project is, of course, that the systems are different, and what's good for one group of players isn't always great for another. Is there really a shortage of short PF adventures? My impression is that PFS has this covered with hundreds of scenarios.
Well, they're not Midgard based. Not that I'm very familiar with PFS scenarios. So no plans for PF Eldrich Lairs at all or just waiting for high enough backing level?
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Ok so I could add Players Guide pdf now (for I'm guessing 19$), or I could add it to backer-kit at the later date.
That's correct. Your call, but it is available.
Grimalkin and the rest of possibly unlocked adventures?
Right, PDF add-on if you are at a low tier, included for the non-Basic ones.
So no plans for PF Eldrich Lairs at all or just waiting for high enough backing level?
Plans for PF Eldritch Lairs have fallen into the dread valley of "Is it worth spending time and effort pursuing this if our regular PF developers can't tackle it?" We could come back to it, but without a team committed to the work, it's just wildly irresponsible for me to promise it. And I've been burned by volunteers and inexperienced-by-well-meaning folks, enough to be wary of the idea.
I can promise that as soon as I have folks contracted to do it, I'll tell the world. But right now, the Paizo team is trying very hard to make their Starfinder deadlines, and I don't want to mess that up for the sake of EL.
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The above update is an excellent read for Pathfinder Midgard fans. It really gives a nice idea of just how rich and awesome the Pathfinder book/content is going to be! :)
Oh, we're almost to the $95,000 stretch goal!
Then it's onward to the amazing $100,000 stretch goals (yep, $100,000 unlocks multiple stretch goals) AND we're close to hitting that 1,000 backer goal which unlocks the killer Midgard GM screen!
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I'm glad that 5E is helping publishers thrive. I won't ever use the system, but as long as you keep producing products for Pathfinder, I'll keep buying them.
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Oh, as long as there are folks who want to buy Pathfinder products, Kobold Press will definitely keep producing them!!! In fact, I'm super stoked about the next ... ;)
The Midgard kickstarter is now at more than $98,000 and 870 backers!
That means only about $1,800 and 130 more backers to go until we unlock a host of cool stretch goals, including an awesome GM screen (available for BOTH Pathfinder and 5E!) and a bound in poster map for the main book!
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We've topped $106,000! and it looks like Pathfinder fans are starting to see just how awesome this kickstarter is!
AND we're SOOOOO close to hitting that 1,000 backer goal which unlocks the Midgard GM screen! As in, less than 60 backers!
Aaaaaand it looks like it's official. We will have an Eldritch Lairs for Pathfinder stretch goal! That should be fantastic news for Pathfinder fans! More details to come!!
I don't see an official announcement/KS Update re: Pathfinder Eldritch Lairs - just a comment from Wolfgang.
Mike Welham is a perfect choice to do the conversions. Awesome news nonetheless!
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I don't see an official announcement/KS Update re: Pathfinder Eldritch Lairs - just a comment from Wolfgang.
Mike Welham is a perfect choice to do the conversions. Awesome news nonetheless!
It's up now!!!
The Pathfinder version of Eldritch Lairs becomes a reality at $125,000!!!
Given that we're currently just over $111,000 now and we still have more than 2 weeks to go, I'd say we should have no problem hitting that.
Pathfinder fans, this is a fantastic time to jump in if you haven't yet! The next few goals bring a wealth of additional Pathfinder material into play, including the GM screen, more Eldritch Lairs, new chapters in both the Campaign book and the Pathfinder (and 5E) player books etc.
It's a good time to be a Midgard and Pathfinder fan!
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The Midgard Campaign Setting Kickstarter passed another awesome milestone ... we've topped 1,000 backers!!
That means the Pathfinder GM and 5E DM screens are happening!
Details are still being worked out, but it's going to be a high-quality, 4-panel, horizontal screen and it's gonna be fantastic :)
You can find lots more from the newest Kickstarter update that just went up
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If I back for the Campaign Setting hardcover and PDF, would I get the PDF earlier than the hardcover? It appears that the PDF only rewards have an earlier delivery date than the books and I am wondering if I backed for rewards that were a combination of books and PDFs, would I get the PDFs at the time that the PDFs were shipped to everyone else?
The goal is to release the Beta/Draft/Early Access PDFs to backers earlier than the print books.
Not sure what the "everyone else" is in your second question... Maybe the public release? In which case, no, the public won't have access to the first wave of the PDF; those are just for backers. Thanks for asking!
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Any chance for 13th Age or Shadow of the Demon Lord support, even as a small PDF?
There's an updated set of 13th Age icons that will be available for the setting. Would love to also do a PDF version of a 13th Age screen insert.
For SotDL.... Wow, we'd love to, but it's not our area and I'm not even sure there's an open license for it. I'd say SotDL support is very unlikely, not because we don't love the system, but just because I'm finding it's difficult enough to maintain good focus on two teams and two main systems.
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We're rapidly coming up on the $120,000 mark, which adds a tone of elven goodness to both the Player's Guide and Heroes Handbook!
Also, the latest update is out, and it's kind of a big one!
Learn more about Midgard: Open World!!!
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With the help of 1,080 backers as of this writing, we've passed $120,000! High Elvish Magic and the Elfmarked options are going in both the 5E Heroes Handbook AND the Pathfinder Player's Guide!
Even better - we're getting closer to that magic $125,000 mark, at which point the Pathfinder version of Eldrich Lairs becomes a reality! Not only that, but $125,000 also adds Maze Magic (think mazes and minotaur magic) to the 5E Heroes Handbook AND the Pathfinder Player's Guide!
AND ... there are still more than 2 weeks to go!
Marc,
I'm currently pledged @ Midgard PFRPG Basic Books Combo level. Will any of these stretch goals tack on any additional cost that we might need to keep track of?
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Quintain, great question. We created the Basic Books rewards in response to the backers asking for "just the basics, no extras", though the Basic Books combo does include all the material from stretch goals that are added into the books. This includes goals such as the extra races for the Player's Guide, the new Midgard regional chapters like the Shadow Realm, additional art, the printed poster map, and expansions to existing chapters.
This combo reward doesn't include the unlocked add-ons and extras, such as the GM's Screen or the Eldritch Lairs etc. You can certainly add them on if you like, of course! The pledge chart on the Kickstarter site shows exactly what's in each reward level.
Quintain, great question. We created the Basic Books rewards in response to the backers asking for "just the basics, no extras", though the Basic Books combo does include all the material from stretch goals that are added into the books. This includes goals such as the extra races for the Player's Guide, the new Midgard regional chapters like the Shadow Realm, additional art, the printed poster map, and expansions to existing chapters.
This combo reward doesn't include the unlocked add-ons and extras, such as the GM's Screen or the Eldritch Lairs etc. You can certainly add them on if you like, of course! The pledge chart on the Kickstarter site shows exactly what's in each reward level.
Ok, I presume that any of the add-ons that aren't part of the initial basic books combo can be purchased after the fact? I prefer to pick and choose based on my needs vs getting extra things I don't need.
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BOOM! We've passed the $125,000 mark!
That means Eldritch Lairs for Pathfinder is happening!
$125,000 also adds Maze Magic to the Pathfinder Player's Guide AND the 5E Heroes Handbook.
Next up: more Walkers and more badlands from the Wasted West!
Oh, and 1,130 backers means we're getting closer to Midgard Open World!
If you haven't already, please check out Midgard Campaign Setting: Dark Roads & Deep Magic today!