|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Honestly, I would change the whole thing. Kinda.
As a rough sketch, I would make the history that the Taldan Empire brought the faith of Aroden everywhere... and then stomped out all the other churches. Drove almost all of them underground throughout the entire Taldan Empire - which comprises almost all of Avistan.
[As a side note, Rahadoum's irreligious stance is borne not from their hatred of the gods, but from their claim that they are the only ones following the original teachings of Aroden. The LAW OF MAN was given by Aroden to the Rahadoumi long before Aroden raised up the Starstone. They never worshipped him, but followed his humanist, irreligious teachings. Now that he's dead, they keep to their old traditions, and its the clerics and the missionaries trying to get in that they don't like.]
So... Aroden's Church was basically everywhere triumphant save for places like the Mammoth Lords or the Linnorm Kings or Garund or Kelesh, where the Taldan Empire never got. All the other, older, local gods were either driven underground or forgotten, or kept up in distant, cryptic corners of the Empire. or they were kept going in places where humanity was never in charge, like Belkzen.
BUT... now Aroden's dead. His Church is in ruins. The old faiths (like Erastil) are coming back into the open. And new gods are emergent as well. Many of the old time Arodenites have turned to Iomedae as his herald, while others are adopting the new worship of Angels. Still others have chosen darker paths. Like in Kintargo, all the big cathedrals sitting around Avistan are converted Arodenite shrines.
That's how you can accomplish the present religious diversity while keeping the big bad and now long withered Taldan/Cheliaxan Empire making sense.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Pharasma would change from being Neutral Apoplectic to a manifestation of the terrible price of balance.
In my version of the setting, the Thassalonian empire would have fallen when tens of thousands of it's people all offered prayers begging Pharasma to exert her power and take their wicked rulers into the afterlife (given that their magic made evading death a formality). Moved by such a great outpouring, she does so. Upon learning that the evil rulers have all been struck permanently dead, the people go to anoint their heroes as new leaders, only to find they too have all died. The cost of taking the greatest evil from the world was to also take the greatest good. From that day forth, Pharasma became a deity people only called upon when desperate, as they knew that she would maintain the balance of life and death.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
An earlier thread, with many additional ideas
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On a level not discussing switching out an alignment, spell or domain here and there, I would have liked a different flavour of gods altogether.
Golarion's gods are very antropomorphic, meaning that they act very much like mortals. Like the gods of the Norse or Greek mythologies, they're portrayed as physical beings living in their realms, sleeping, drinking, eating, quarreling and presumably brushing their divine teeth each night (well, Gorum doesn't floss). Yet they are so powerful that they cannot be described by the game system and can do whatever they want as long as another god doesn't oppose them. This is in contrast to the Norse and Greek mythology were the gods weren't that powerful and were heroes often challenged them (even though that rarely ended well for the mortals). That doesn't jibe so well in my view; immensely powerful beings, with presumably wisdom, charisma and intelligence that's off the charts, worshipped on millions worlds by billions of sentient beings, yet they have so many human (or demihuman) failings and characteristics.
I much prefer more mystical, distant and alien gods, which in my view goes more in hand with the power Paizo's given them. I would prefer to have had the gods be more their domains rather than petty, nose-picking and farting super-people. E.g. Shelyn is an immense otherworldly force representing her domains, not a gal covering up a zit before going on a date. However, switching that flavour won't work in Golarion, since the gods are presented in all writing to be so mortal-like and occupied with various mortal going-ons, and a bunch of them even used to be mortals not so long time ago.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I like the Golarion pantheon for the most part but I've been thinking of house ruling two things.
First, all favored weapons should be martial. It really sucks to play an Inquisitor or a cleric of say Asmoedeus or Pharasma and get stuck with a simple weapon while other deities get everything from longswords to spiked chains.
Second, I would add a god of thieves. While Calistria and Norgorber cover some of that, there is no true god of thievery. I've been thinking of stealing (pun intended) the Crooked Warden from Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards series. That way there IS a thief deity, but few know about it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Truth be told, I really like what Paizo has done with Pharasma. It represents not only birth and prophecy, but also death as what it truly is. It is a force that while scary and difficult, is inevitable and unbiased, ending the stories of the good, bad, and in-between. I'd probably make some god that appeals to craftsmanship, community, and blacksmithing without being lawful good like Erastil or Torag. When it comes to more obscure gods, I'd completely change Cernunnos to be more true to his original roots, an unsympathetic, unmerciful, and uncaring defender of nature.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd change them to be mythic, not so above mortals
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I like the Golarion pantheon for the most part but I've been thinking of house ruling two things.
First, all favored weapons should be martial. It really sucks to play an Inquisitor or a cleric of say Asmoedeus or Pharasma and get stuck with a simple weapon while other deities get everything from longswords to spiked chains.
Second, I would add a god of thieves. While Calistria and Norgorber cover some of that, there is no true god of thievery. I've been thinking of stealing (pun intended) the Crooked Warden from Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards series. That way there IS a thief deity, but few know about it.
Agree with the first one but Norgorber under the Gray Master persona is the god of thieves directly. I think there should be a good counterpart even if they're just a demigod but ol' Norgie's gotcha covered.
Growing out of some incredible threads discussing liked and disliked deities, if you had your way, what would you do differently?
If I kept Cayden, for example, I'd strip out his more overt association with drunkenness and intoxicants and focus on him as the god of revels. There are many ways to celebrate, after all and he could be successfully leveraged in a way less likely to trigger certain Pathfinder fans with understandable negative real world associations to his portfolio.
For Pharasma, I would probably split off the judge of the dead aspect into a minor deity and set up Pharasma clearly as 'The End' Like a black hole that no one contents, entering Pharasma's Kingdom is the point of no return. No one knows what it is like, plenty of theories, and a great opportunity for the occasionally truly terrifying villain to have returned from Beyond. Pharasma would be more of an entropic force, perceived by the setting natives as greedy and naturally, inexorably, coming for everything.
Irori would not be a god but 'something else.' Presenting perhaps an alternate ideal for ascension rather than deitfication being the sole endpoint of personal evolution. That would further remove the idea that he dislikes certain fellow deities because they didn't earn their godhood the same way he did. He would be a separate concept entirely..
If that works for your campaign that's fine.
Quite frankly if I felt problems with the dieties as presented, I think it's simply better to just scrap them and make them new ones. That way you don't have to deal with the baggage of player expectations.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't have any particular problems with the deities, but my initial thoughts are...
Given the story of Rovagug's conflict with the other gods, I think it would be interesting to either expand Gorum's portfolio to include more general destruction or elevate one of the lesser gods of destruction up to the main pantheon as a replacement for Rovagug. Basically, the idea is that since destruction is sometimes necessary, after the other gods sealed Rovagug away they would have found someone else to fill the role. Someone they could work with, destroying things on Golarion without necessarily destroying Golarion itself. Personally I'd prefer that this be one of the good or neutral gods of destruction because I think that's a more interesting concept, but it could work with an evil one.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would boot Pharasma.
The one thing I really hate about Golarion is that there are no prophesies which are a great fantasy staple.
They're a staple of fantasy stories, where the author has control over the outcome. Removing prophecy was intentional- it doesn't work as well with PCs running around doing things with their external agency.
As for me...
Torag wouldn't be a core deity, or he would be expanded to the point where non-dwarves had a bit more reason to worship him (like Calistria from the elven pantheon).
Iomedae would get some tweaking to make her more distinct from Sarenrae.
Erastil wouldn't grant fancy longbow stuff, because the last thing it needs is more buffs.
Desna would have her portfolio tied together a little more tightly thematically as a goddess of hope and the unknown- exploring where you've never been, games of chance, the mysteries of the stars, and so on.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don't use 'em - as I run my long term home brew deities.
To me, deities need to have a redeeming quality to them - even the "evil" ones.
<warning the following contains gross simplification and generalization>
In real world pantheons there are many deities that were often termed as "evil", but many of them had important duties and followings, and their followers were not overly ostracized.
I think its important for deities to have a campaign/setting specific role beyond their purpose as a patron for a divine spellcaster in a roleplaying game, and I feel that many of the gods of the Golarion pantheon are oddly specific and wierd (I don't care for a bunch of 'em actually).
I think that some need to be split up, some need to be merged. I think I would be very careful about not providing gods specifically to fill the requirements for a race/class/alignment combination (oh you're a______? Well your god is _____.) The mythology needs to come first, the roles need to be filled second.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd make Cayden Cailean a halfling god. Remove his association with alcohol and make him more about "the good life" - food, rest, revelry, but not specifically alcohol.
Halflings need love too, and Cayden is the best for that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd make Cayden Cailean a halfling god. Remove his association with alcohol and make him more about "the good life" - food, rest, revelry, but not specifically alcohol.
Halflings need love too, and Cayden is the best for that.
This is a fix I can get behind.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'd make Cayden Cailean a halfling god. Remove his association with alcohol and make him more about "the good life" - food, rest, revelry, but not specifically alcohol.
Halflings need love too, and Cayden is the best for that.
it would certainly make him well and hated in Cheliax and give more emphasis to the Bellflower Network.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would make the Gods into an actual Pantheon, not this random group of 'who is popular'. In almost every example of mythology the gods are linked together in some way. Zeus, Hades, and Poseidon are all brothers, Odin and Thor are father and son, things like that. Except for Shelyn and Zon-Kuthon being siblings as the only exception, the major Gods are not related or really linked together. Not saying all of the Gods have to be related, but as things are the gods just seem to be kind of random with nothing truly linking them together.
I know that technically Aroden WAS the god of humanity, but considering that the Dwarves and Elves get MULTIPLE Gods that are theirs, hell the Orcs get EIGHT, even Gnomes get some love. Yet Humans never get a "this is the human god of X". This double standard always stuck me as odd. Torag is credited with creating the Dwarves, Apsu created Dragons, pretty much everyone except humans gets a 'this is my god that created US'. Always struck me as odd.