So...
We'll be getting a campaign setting book focused on Molthune and Nirmathas in February, when Ironfang Invasion is set to begin being released. Right off the bat, we know that the campaign will begin in Nirmathas and that a good chunk of it will take place there, as the country is invaded by the goblinoid Ironfang Legion. However, the conflict and politics between Nirmathas and it's imperialistic rival Molthune is barely mentioned in the summaries of the AP volumes. It seems, at least from the outlines we're given, that the war only serves as a backdrop against which the rest of the AP takes place.
To me, this is somewhat disappointing. Nirmathas doesn't have a whole lot of lore outside of the conflict against Molthune that gives it a lot of character, so one wonders if most of the AP will be taking place in a very confined context involving only the PCs, their immediate allies, and the Ironfangs. Molthune is portrayed in setting lore as an imperialistic aggressor which is eager to expand it's borders; and pursues war against Nirmathas since it's other neighbors are too strong or valuable to invade. Suppose the threat of the Ironfang invaders gave the country of Molthune a noble cause of sorts and an actual evil enemy to use their martial prowess against: after all, even an expansionist militarized empire must fight back if it's soldiers don't want their family members to cower under a Hobgoblin's slave-lash. Yesterday, Molthune fought to invade and oppress. But today, they fight for hope and the survival of human civilization!
From the penultimate volume of the AP, we know that we'll be aligning with a secret kingdom of Fey so that we can take the fight to the Ironfangs and end the threat once and for all: but doesn't it seem a bit strange that our allies don't appear until the fifth part of the adventure? I don't wish to judge a book that I haven't read yet; maybe this Fey army is heavily foreshadowed and characterized before we ally with them. But it seems out-of-context and anticlimactic to team up with mysterious Fey at the eleventh hour of the story when there are already two armies available in the region: the resistance fighters of Nirmathas and the Imperial Army of Molthune.
Wouldn't it be more meaningful if Nirmathas and Molthune, enemies for entire generations, were forced to set aside their differences in the face of slavery and extermination at the hands of the massive, invading Ironfang Legion? What if for the first time in decades, they joined forces to save their countries and protect their families, going to war under the PC's banner despite not knowing if their combined armies are powerful enough to even stop the Ironfang Legion? The idea of age-old enemies becoming allies is one that has been long established in fiction, and it can be a very powerful one. The Fey army can still be in the story: alongside with Nirmathas and Molthune, they would form a triple alliance against the goblinoids. After all, the normal humanoids need magical allies to help them.
In conclusion, if I run Ironfang Invasion I will attempt to add more Molthune-Nirmathas conflict to the story, and I will add additional quests in part five where the PCs seek to broker a truce between the two countries in order to ally against the Ironfang Legion.
I just hope that the structure and plot aren't so antithetical to my ideas as to require giving the AP a full facelift.
I also expected more of a reveal into both sides of the Nirmathi/Molthune conflict, but it sounds like the focus is solely on Nirmathas with Molthune in the background as solely a negative aspect. The CS book supposedly will also cover Molthune, so will give more material to work with re: Molthune, but at that point I think you'd be doing your own thing, although you could probably refactor alot of material if you wanted to.
In all honesty, I was really hoping for a deeper take on both sides both because I thought it would be interesting and complex take on morals, but also because it doesn't feel likely to get much more in-depth take on Molthune any time soon if this AP didn't do it. Hopefully the CS book does a good job with both sides, and good luck with taking it your own direction!
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I think Crystal mentioned somewhere that there'll be a Campaign Trait to let you play a Molthuni deserter...
How do you know Molthune didn't engineer the Hobgoblin invasion to crush Nirmathas in a vise? From Molthune's point of view, reconquest of Nirmathas would be just putting down a rebellion to reestablish their old borders. Having been unable to do this on their own, they could well have decided to offer the Hobgoblins a deal to give them some of the population of Nirmathas as slaves and some of its land as plantatations (Molthune already has slavery itself, inherited from Cheliax), in exchange for the Hobgoblins' assistance in retaking Nirmathas.
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How do you know Molthune didn't engineer the Hobgoblin invasion to crush Nirmathas in a vise? From Molthune's point of view, reconquest of Nirmathas would be just putting down a rebellion to reestablish their old borders. Having been unable to do this on their own, they could well have decided to offer the Hobgoblins a deal to give them some of the population of Nirmathas as slaves and some of its land as plantatations (Molthune already has slavery itself, inherited from Cheliax), in exchange for the Hobgoblins' assistance in retaking Nirmathas.
If so, I'm sure the AP will show that blowing up in their face!
Much to my personal chagrin, Molthune being, to our sensibilities, in the wrong has not been deemed sufficient, so they already field units of monsters...
I'd like a more morally ambiguous take on the only war in the inner sea that is both active and mostly human, but that is not the direction published material has thus far chosen to take things.
How do you know Molthune didn't engineer the Hobgoblin invasion to crush Nirmathas in a vise? From Molthune's point of view, reconquest of Nirmathas would be just putting down a rebellion to reestablish their old borders. Having been unable to do this on their own, they could well have decided to offer the Hobgoblins a deal to give them some of the population of Nirmathas as slaves and some of its land as plantatations (Molthune already has slavery itself, inherited from Cheliax), in exchange for the Hobgoblins' assistance in retaking Nirmathas.
Well...
If that were the case, I would have it that the Ironfang Legion plans to inevitably betray and conquer Molthune. So when the people of Molthune catch wind of their leaders supporting the legion; a coup occurs and the new junta supports Nirmathas and the players against the Hobgoblins for the sake of Molthune's survival.
I think Crystal mentioned somewhere that there'll be a Campaign Trait to let you play a Molthuni deserter...
Sure, but if that's the only thing Molthune has to do with the game, that's not very much. Will there be any pay-off for taking such a trait?
{. . .}
If that were the case, I would have it that the Ironfang Legion plans to inevitably betray and conquer Molthune. So when the people of Molthune catch wind of their leaders supporting the legion; a coup occurs and the new junta supports Nirmathas and the players against the Hobgoblins for the sake of Molthune's survival.
{. . .}
This is certainly a plausible outcome of Molthune using the Hobgoblins against Nirmathas, but in turn a further plausible outcome if Molthune allies with Nirmathas against the Hobgoblins is that Molthune in turn betrays Nirmathas after dealing with the Hobgoblin threat.
Certainly seems an oversight, particularly with so much of Nirmathas's identity being the conflict with Molthune. And does Molthune want to try and retake the region from a Hobgoblin horde after ineffectually fighting the rebels for so long? They should really address it.
Molthune plays little role in this AP beyond presenting additional hazards/complications to the struggle against the Ironfang Legion. You're welcome to incorporate them more if you like.
Hazards that the players will have to cope with, or just "background stuff"?
EDIT: In any case, I'll expand/modify/reimagine the AP as necessary. I look forward to it regardless, because Hobgoblins are my favorite villain race.
Certainly seems an oversight, particularly with so much of Nirmathas's identity being the conflict with Molthune. And does Molthune want to try and retake the region from a Hobgoblin horde after ineffectually fighting the rebels for so long? They should really address it.
Maybe Molthune would figure that while they might not be able to retake Nirmathas fighting it one on one, they might be able to take both it and the Hobgoblin horde after they have weakened each other.
Of course, they could be wrong, you know . . . .
Molthune plays little role in this AP beyond presenting additional hazards/complications to the struggle against the Ironfang Legion. You're welcome to incorporate them more if you like.
This has one encouraging aspect: It means that Nirmathas isn't going to fall into the trap (that is seen on Earth all too often) of thinking that the enemy of my enemy is my ally.
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Kinda sounds like another Hell's Rebels type of situation.The campaign setting book released this month actually has a system for "militia" which is about 90% lifted from the Hell's Rebels rebellion subsystem, and explains that the militia system will be used in the AP.
No, it says it's optional to use with the AP. The only mention of the AP in the entire system is a single sidebar that explicitly says it's optional and there for your group to use if you like neat little subsystems vs. narrative management
Nice, curious to see how this all works in the wilderness area instead of one main city, should be fun!!
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I'm not really sure where the idea of "age-old enemies" comes from in the first place. The Molthune-Nirmathas conflict is rather recent. Moltune seceded from Chelix in 4632, and Nirmathas gained independence from Molthune in 4655, about 60 years ago. Compared to the way other things develop on the Golarion timeline, this is basically yesterday.
