Siege of Stone (GM Reference)


Ironfang Invasion

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The purpose of this thread is to clarify questions arising in this adventure. This is a SPOILER-filled zone: do not venture further if you do not wish the adventure to be spoiled for you, and spoiler tags are not required when posting here.

This thread is a GM Reference thread for Part 4 of the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path. Links for the individual threads for each part are as follows:

  • Trail of the Hunted (Part 1)
  • Fangs of War (Part 2)
  • Assault on Longshadow (Part 3)
  • Siege of Stone (Part 4)
  • Prisoners of the Blight (Part 5)
  • Vault of the Onyx Citadel (Part 6)


  • Early may, and right now I'm almost literally splitting with curiosity about the towers :p


    I'm looking at one small change at the moment in the adventure.

    Go to Lava Rules!.


    So how do you convince your PCs to take The Long Walk instead of just teleporting to their destination? "Loot and XP" isn't really a good enough explanation for my group. :P


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    Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber
    Othniel wrote:
    So how do you convince your PCs to take The Long Walk instead of just teleporting to their destination? "Loot and XP" isn't really a good enough explanation for my group. :P

    I'd asked myself that very same question, and lo and behold:

    "[Kraggodan] is locked down and warded against magical intrusions to repel the siege." End of page 22. Two years into the siege, it stands to reason that Kraggodan currently has some sort of anti-teleportation going on. Couple this with the fact that the point of going there is to look into what Azaersi was doing there, and teleporting instead of following the tunnel costs them their lead. Plus, if teleport does work, they'll suddenly be in a fortress of people who probably won't trust that they're not Molthuni spies ("the dwarves won't simply open their gates to strangers in the middle of a war," page 23).

    That said, the adventure also comments that the party might travel overland, despite the hazards, and to throw a few custom encounters at them on the way there - if they ultimately teleport and aren't blocked, skip Part 2, run Part 3 as close to normal as you can (skipping tale four), then have the inquest interrupted after tale 3 but before Karburtin's testimony by a Molthune attack breaking further into the Fortress than they've been able to up to this point - the PCs get a chance to help repel the Molthune force, which helps back up their tale. Throw in just enough encounters here to catch up on lost experience from not following the tunnel, and you're probably back on track.

    Scarab Sages

    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

    The PCs also may not have a good description of the destination, making teleportation risky. They're unlikely to have been there before (since the city has been under siege since the start of the AP).

    One option you could use is to have a teleport spell simply take the PCs directly to area H, not far from the entrance. This bypasses the random (and planned) encounters along the way, which could be replaced with other encounters later - perhaps some quests from the dwarves prior to entering the reliquary.

    In addition, walking to the "front door" has the issue of walking up to a massive army trying to repel a siege. The "back door" likely has only a few guardians. It's much easier to talk to a few guardians than 500 angry dwarves with siege repelling equipment.

    Scarab Sages

    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

    Questions of my own, regarding area J (the reliquary).

    If the PCs are working for the dwarves, why would they loot the reliquary? Specifically - the treasure at J17 and J18 (as well as first throne at J13). These items all seem like things a good party would leave untouched, unless the dwarves specifically say they can bring loot out and use it and/or at least let the dwarves look at it.

    How would the PCs figure out how to put the ghost to rest (or even find out there is a ghost)? The PCs are likely to kill the "ghost" when it manifests as a Gug at area J12 - in which case she can't come back for 2d4 days. The PCs could easily finish the dungeon before she re-manifests, never knowing she was actually a medusa ghost. The idea of a "master of disguise" ghost is pretty far-fetched for the PCs to come up with on their own. They might just assume "lots of ghosts and haunts in this place... hope the dwarves can afford to hire official ghostbusters"

    Without a lot of divination magic, the PCs might never know there is a ghost, or how to put her (and the haunt at J16) to rest.

    Any thoughts on this?


    More reliquary stuff:

    I totally disagree with The Enthroned King's Neutral Good alignment (from the Paizo staff, I suppose). He can use Order's Wrath 1/day in his tomb, "fears once again sliding into the role of *TYRANT*" (page 50) and has conjured (LN) inevitables during his reign (page 49), this sounds Lawful Good or (more likely) Lawful Neutral to me.
    In addition, king Breath-In-A-Bottle can speak Common and Undercommon even if it's 9000+ years he's stuck inside the Reliquary of Ascension* with no outside contact... What about replacing those languages with Celestial and Infernal, heh?

    *Kraggodan is built "hundreds of feet" directly above a lake of lava (page 33-34 and 63), but the final dungeon sports "a precipitous drop that leads several hundred feet down" into Sekamina (area J15), and fairly close to a pit that "drops thirty feet into glowing lava" (area J19 - Thirty feet?) to boot. Pointing this just in case Paizo ever releases the Ironfang AP hardcover...


    Starting this next session.

    Is it well known that Kraggodan is under siege? The PCs are all from Phaendar.

    Given the nature of the party (all mounted and human) im sure they would rather ride the 75 miles south through enemy territory while annihalating all before them THAN go through morlock caves!!

    Anybody found any stumbling blocks

    So far has been an excellent AP


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    Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

    I would say they are aware of the siege since it has been going on for like 2 years. I would also say that it has probably been a pretty good and peaceful few years for nirmithas since the molthune army has been occupied with that. The morlock caves kinda of confuse me a bit.


    Yeah, you have to make up a lot of maps for this one
    Hardest fight was actually the Carnivorous Crystals. I think at one point I had 4 PCs and 3 Animals / Mounts stunned by their aura!


    Anybody run the Synod section yet?


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    OneTrueBaldo wrote:

    More reliquary stuff:

    I totally disagree with The Enthroned King's Neutral Good alignment (from the Paizo staff, I suppose). He can use Order's Wrath 1/day in his tomb, "fears once again sliding into the role of *TYRANT*" (page 50) and has conjured (LN) inevitables during his reign (page 49), this sounds Lawful Good or (more likely) Lawful Neutral to me.
    In addition, king Breath-In-A-Bottle can speak Common and Undercommon even if it's 9000+ years he's stuck inside the Reliquary of Ascension* with no outside contact... What about replacing those languages with Celestial and Infernal, heh?

    *Kraggodan is built "hundreds of feet" directly above a lake of lava (page 33-34 and 63), but the final dungeon sports "a precipitous drop that leads several hundred feet down" into Sekamina (area J15), and fairly close to a pit that "drops thirty feet into glowing lava" (area J19 - Thirty feet?) to boot. Pointing this just in case Paizo ever releases the Ironfang AP hardcover...

    Also, does the Enthroned King have control over his lead golems? If he does, what's stopping him from adding the golems to the party? If he doesn't, given their stated purpose, would the golems try and prevent him from leaving even if he wants to? Seems like the party is probably gonna have to fight these things or gain two very powerful bodyguards...


    I can't see the Save DC for Elicnidas petrifying gaze?
    is it 10+9+7+2=28?


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
    OneTrueBaldo wrote:

    More reliquary stuff:

    I totally disagree with The Enthroned King's Neutral Good alignment (from the Paizo staff, I suppose). He can use Order's Wrath 1/day in his tomb, "fears once again sliding into the role of *TYRANT*" (page 50) and has conjured (LN) inevitables during his reign (page 49), this sounds Lawful Good or (more likely) Lawful Neutral to me.
    In addition, king Breath-In-A-Bottle can speak Common and Undercommon even if it's 9000+ years he's stuck inside the Reliquary of Ascension* with no outside contact... What about replacing those languages with Celestial and Infernal, heh?

    *Kraggodan is built "hundreds of feet" directly above a lake of lava (page 33-34 and 63), but the final dungeon sports "a precipitous drop that leads several hundred feet down" into Sekamina (area J15), and fairly close to a pit that "drops thirty feet into glowing lava" (area J19 - Thirty feet?) to boot. Pointing this just in case Paizo ever releases the Ironfang AP hardcover...

    Not necessarily.

    I am LE and I utilize Inevitables to punish people in my kingdom for every possible thing. I find the errors of my ways and want to stop upholding the Law to such severity (now shifting to Neutral) but I want to be good. Since I Have not performed any evil acts and I try my best to do Good I can be NG.

    Intention: Determining a creature’s intention is largely a roleplaying task. Creatures that truly seek redemption should display genuine remorse over evil acts they’ve committed and must be willing to embark on the difficult road to becoming good.

    Alignment doesn't represent a life time of deeds. Alignments can fluctuate. For example, if I cast 3 evil spells in a day I can go from neutral to evil.


    Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

    Hmm, not many comments here.

    We just started this book on the 27th. I forced their hands on how to proceed, since it's pretty much an open valley and they can see the 3 areas of interest. No big deal, though we do have to track time since they all took their 10 min/level buffs. With nature's paths running, they'll get to the ruins at the end of the valley with 10 minutes to spare (give or take). My guess is they'll camp after the cephalaphores, heading into the crevasse in the morning.

    I've ordered the darklands and caverns maps for handling the long walk. My guys can't teleport (ranger, alchemist, magus, inquisitor), so I didn't have the problem from above. I think they're all looking for the trip just so they can sell the massive amount of loot they have after I was a complete scrooge during the first 3 books. I put the purchase limit as a town limit per week, though they still managed to wind up at least a level ahead of WBL. I'm thinking they won't get full 50% on the low-level items just because of supply/demand issues.

    Anyway, onward we march!


    thenovalord wrote:

    I can't see the Save DC for Elicnidas petrifying gaze?

    is it 10+9+7+2=28?

    Did you ever decide what to make it? It's definitely not listed, I was just gonna have it scale from Charisma but she also does have skill focus for it. 28 seems high though, where did you get that number?


    Parrakarry wrote:
    thenovalord wrote:

    I can't see the Save DC for Elicnidas petrifying gaze?

    is it 10+9+7+2=28?

    Did you ever decide what to make it? It's definitely not listed, I was just gonna have it scale from Charisma but she also does have skill focus for it. 28 seems high though, where did you get that number?

    After looking it over, 28 should be the correct DC. Ten plus half of HD plus Cha plus skill focus are where those values were found, and they are correct when compared to the other DC's without skill focus (frightful moan and malevolence are both DC 26) You are right in that it's a high DC though. The standard DC of a CR 15 is around 23 so she has the potential to be quite dangerous, however I'll remind you that her stare is her main threat and by this point in the adventure, PC's have learned quite well how to deal with flesh to stone.


    Pharasmin wrote:
    Parrakarry wrote:
    thenovalord wrote:

    I can't see the Save DC for Elicnidas petrifying gaze?

    is it 10+9+7+2=28?

    Did you ever decide what to make it? It's definitely not listed, I was just gonna have it scale from Charisma but she also does have skill focus for it. 28 seems high though, where did you get that number?
    After looking it over, 28 should be the correct DC. Ten plus half of HD plus Cha plus skill focus are where those values were found, and they are correct when compared to the other DC's without skill focus (frightful moan and malevolence are both DC 26) You are right in that it's a high DC though. The standard DC of a CR 15 is around 23 so she has the potential to be quite dangerous, however I'll remind you that her stare is her main threat and by this point in the adventure, PC's have learned quite well how to deal with flesh to stone.

    Shouldn’t it be half of her monster hd, excluding her class levels (of which she has 10)? That would set the dc to 23. I admit I’m a little unsure about this, since the ghost skills do seem to scale off her full level. Also, the petrifying gaze skill for a base Medusa says it just scales off charisma.


    went with 28
    Battled her over several days as she couldn't get into the blessed room. Must have had 5 turned to stone over the whole battles with her.

    Silver Crusade

    My players captured Kosseruk so what useful info should they get if they question her?


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    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    Mrs Camelot wrote:
    My players captured Kosseruk so what useful info should they get if they question her?

    Well, first off, I don't see Kosseruk cracking under any sort of conventional interrogation. I'd assume they'd need enchantment magic to get anything out of her. She probably doesn't have a lot of actionable items of intell right now. I imagine she can name a lot of Azairsi's inner circle, and maybe even talk about the Onyx Citadel a little. I don't expect any of that to actually come up until book 6, unless players can get real exotic with scry and fry-- but I don't know if that's possible with most of the big wigs hanging out in a sealed plane. But letting your players uncover information on the enemy command structure will probably make them feel accomplished without actually disrupting the narrative structure of the campaign.

    Dark Archive

    Any advice on the chain wrapped fist symbol on page 64? Is that supposed to represent the Evenhanded Synod?

    I really want to use that artwork with my group, but I can't find a reference to it in the text.

    P.S. I would buy a print if that image for my game room if I could find the artist...


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    So my group finished book 3 tonight, but they did it by having Navah stone shape topple the tower onto the Ironfang camp. That's certainly gonna make it harder to read Kosseruk's notes. I think Navah probably got a look at the tower enough to register the stuff about Kraggoden. And perhaps a scrap of paper or two can be recovered that mention the Valley of Aloi. Hopefully that's enough to prod the PCs in that direction?

    Anyone else run into this issue?


    Does anyone have any good suggestions for a battle map for the I. Fallen Defenders and Vault Way encounters? There seem to be custom battle maps missing for these, which is unfortunate. These seem a little too specific in their "plot", and not really random encounters - quite pivotal, in fact.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    Question. What's the shortest and safest path to get from the surface to G17, Zanathura's chambers? It looks to me like you have to use the outer walls to go from the surface to G18 (Level 4 where the Morlocks have worn in handholds), then through G21 to G22, which connects to G15 (level 3) up above it. So at bare minimum you have to go through the fungus farm with the psychopores, right?

    My party disguised themselves as Legion Hobgoblins and convinced the Morlocks to take them to Grax, who took them to Zanthura. At the time I couldn't figure out what that path looked like, but I've subsequently landed on this one. That's a lot of climbing up and down, but not impossible to cram into the 1 hour their the Veil spell lasts. But it does mean going through the pyschopores. I guess I'm gonna have to say they didn't attack the non-morlock pyschic signatures because they were accompanied by morlocks? Gonna make for a nasty surprise when they try to leave.

    I'm not entirely sober as I try to work this out, so forgive me if I'm wrong. And also about my spelling.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    Does it bother anyone else that there is no mention of the half a dozen slaves held by the military patrol aren't mentioned beyond their initial presence? What is the party expected to do with them? Sending them back to Longshadow invovles climbing 200 feet out of the morlock tunnels and then taking them back through 5 days of difficult terrain, and that's before you factor in the party doubling back both ways. Taking them to Kraggodan means keeping them safe through numerous encounters, and the ambient heat of Kraggodan's furnace alone might kill them. Good aligned parties seem unlikely to leave them to fend to themselves, but there is no mention of their ultimate fate like there is for the slaves in book 3.

    I'm also curious how folks handled pacing the Longwalk. The random encounter tables suggests a 30% chance each hour exploring the Darklands. Even assuming "only" rolling the 8 hours of actual travel, that is a lot of rolls for encounters. Kisger can cut that down to 15%, but that is still a lot of rolling to do and seems like it might drag on.

    I'm also running PF2, so most of the monsters in the random encounter tables don't exist. A lot of them don't feel especially inspired-- chardas and lava drakes appear next to each other, which feels silly given the former lives in freezing rivers and the other by lava. I think I will throw it out and build my own using the PF2 bestiary, which has a bunch of level appropriate underdark beasties. I've also got ideas for some none combat encounters involving creatures you need to navigate past.

    But at that point I am not sure if I should use a random encounter tables at all. I like tension pools but I'm not sure it will effectively apply to overland travel. When I ran Trail of the Hunted, I just made a calendar to determine when different events happened. I could do something similar here, or make a map with different marks for encounters along the Long Walk.

    I think there's a lot of room to make the Long Walk more of a thing... But I'm not sure if I want to do that because there's a lot of interesting stuff in Kraggodan.


    Quote:

    I think there's a lot of room to make the Long Walk more of a thing... But I'm not sure if I want to do that because there's a lot of interesting stuff in Kraggodan.

    This. All this.

    Kraggodan is the want. What a fascinating city to explore and deal in and deal with. The Long Walk doesn't interest me as a part of the adventure.

    I've thought of changing it to a lot of skill challenges. Traversing collapsed sections, hiding and avoiding an overwhelming foe maybe, diplomatically end an encounter somewhere.


    On my initial read, my thought was to have Kisegar the duergar or Novvi the svirfneblin help facilitate any prisoner/slave exchange.

    For the right price, Novvi would even be able to reasonably escort anyone back to Misthome via the Long Walk to meet up with Aubrin and the other Phaendar survivors (if they still occupy the caves) through the Darklands entrance to the troglodyte lair way back in book 1.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    Luckily, my party had brought a strike team along from their militia, and they were able to hoist the freed slaves off on them.

    Ideas I've had for encounters on the Long Walk which don't have to become fights:

    There's a dead purple worm stretched all the way across the road at one point, and two or three shulns are eating it. The shulns prefer caveworm flesh to humanoid... but will defend their kill from anyone who gets too close.

    There are a few ropers lying in ambush, but they can be negotiated past with sufficient interesting philosophical banter. This will be fun for my group in particular, because they got some literature from a Vestrac Evangelist trying to convert them to Zon-Kuthon while they were Shadow Walking.

    The party encounters a lone gogigeth on the road, but they need to finish it quick because there is sure to be more coming, and they need to hide from them.

    There's a lone duergar child on the run. what do you do with them?


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    Also, does anyone find the presence of four +4 heavy crossbows in the vault absurd? Like, the adventure barely drops any +2 weapons up until this point, and suddenly there are four of them. I wonder if this was a mistake.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    dubzilla wrote:
    Does anyone have any good suggestions for a battle map for the I. Fallen Defenders and Vault Way encounters? There seem to be custom battle maps missing for these, which is unfortunate. These seem a little too specific in their "plot", and not really random encounters - quite pivotal, in fact.

    I'm finding myself circling back on this question myself. Less so because a map is important for running battles-- the outsider guardians seem simple enough to not need it, and the Karbutin and company encounter seems unlikely to devolve into combat.

    No, the point of concern I have is just how the layout affects infiltration. The AP is written as though you'll move through the lava chamber, up to the door, find the restless lockpicks,* have to deal with the Einherji, then run into Karbutin.

    In practice, the gates in are quite hard to break into without a dedicated lock picker (DC 40!) or a willingness to break down the doors and leave Kraggodan vulnerable. More importantly, there are alarm spells placed on the platform and the door itself. That means Karbutin should be aware as soon as the PCs set foot on the platform... But there's no indication of what he does with that. The AP seems to assume Karbutin doesn't become aware of the party until they are already past the gates.

    Does he simply leave them on the doorstep and hope the gate keeps them from getting in? Does he gather guards and wait in Vault Way in case they make it past the gate? Does he use Clairvoyance to spy on the party? Would he go greet them on the doorstep at the gate and ask what they want?


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    The asterisk that I forgot to follow up on is that I don't understand why a permanent magic item like the lockpicks would be left behind, or why it was used on these doors in the first place. Seems like a used up consumable item, like a stronger Chime of Opening, would have made more sense. But frankly I don't see why that piece of evidence would have been so carelessly left behind.


    Thinking about this adventure, and how there's a slight lull in the action during the social/intrigue with Kraggodan, I had an idea. Through the adventure as written, the players uncover the story of Azaersi & co. when they themselves made the Long Walk from Aloi to Kraggodan to recover the legendary Onyx Key.

    Has anybody ever considered bringing the story to life by actually playing it out? Play out the villains' path through the Darklands, leading up to the events in the Reliquary of Ascension. Could be as a series of flashbacks alternating with social RP with the hero PCs. Hell, it could even be part of the haunt within the Reliquary. You have a group of 4 ready to go: Aza, Zanathura, Elacnida, and Dendrak. Create stat blocks for each of them with a APL of 13 or so (where the PCs should be). Throw in clever callbacks or cameos from events, situations, or characters during the PCs' recent journey to Kraggodan. If you have more than 4 players like I do, it'd easy enough to throw in another hobgoblin retainer or a Duergar guide to fill out the party.

    The main down side to me would be the players gaining strategic knowledge of each of those characters before facing them in the adventure as written. Leveling them down would partially remedy this (take Azaersi down from 18 to 13, she won't have her best feats/gear yet, etc.), but players would still learn very valuable info like their classes and racial abilities. I think it might be worth it - with the right group - to get that connection with the primary villain(s) that can often feel missing from pre-written adventures.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    It is an ambitious solution, to be sure, though I worry it might cause more problems than it solves. Would the players themselves not be taking the Longwalk? Or at least not having to effectively play it out? Because doing everything twice could get old. You're also creating room for player confusion when they present evidence to the Evenhanded Synod. Players can have trouble remembering facts about the campaign. Misinformation and meta knowledge both make it harder.

    Also, it isn't THAT much of a lull. I think the entire Kraggodan section could be run in one session. (I'll be testing that tomorrow, in fact.) You could take longer by role-playing the tale telling in detail or spending time touring the city, but if your group does those things then they are the type of people who will appreciate a break from battle anyway.

    I've got my own ideas for combatting the absent villain syndrome. One is a speech performed by the Ironfang Legion to recruit local monsters. I've posted it to the forums already, and it can be inserted into a campaign at various points. It relays the origin story or Azaersi. It contextualizes the war the PCs are fighting, and hopefully serves to both humanize Azaersi and demonstrate she's a badass. I'm hoping both of those guide the players towards the Canon ending of a peaceful solution with the Legion at the story's climax.

    The other thing is that after the party proves Molthune's innocence, the dwarves will begin trying to draw up a peace treaty. This dovetails nicely with when phase two of the Ironfang Invasion is slated to begin: conquering Molthune. And what better place to start than the small army already caught between a rock and a hard place? Using the Onyx Key, Azaersi will transport herself and a sizable strike force to the hills outside of Kraggodan. A few meteor swarms from Zanathura should devestate the ranks of the Molthuni Invaders, leaving them easy pickings to be carved up by Kraelos Dragonslayer and his cavalry.

    The party can watch from the Fist or Honorwall while an army is destroyed before them. This not only hypes up the final bosses, but also explains some of the reluctance Kraggodan has in committing troops to the field against the Legion. My players had already used their militia to run a false flag operation, too, having their soldiers attack Ironfang Legion camps while wearing Molthune uniforms. This will serve as a justification for the Legion to do what they'd planned to do all along.

    One thing to be aware of with these plans is how specific spells the party has might get them to try and intercede in what should basically be a cutscenes. A party with teleportation might try to go after Azaersi on the spot. AN extremely optinized PF1 party might even succeed in taking her down. So know your PCs before trying this.

    Silver Crusade

    *Dusts off GM hat*

    Ok I'm trying to learn how to run this online through roll 20 - does anyone have a good map/gridless art of the floorplan for the aqueduct in area E and the long walk for Part 2?

    Thanks in advance

    Silver Crusade

    I feel like I have a different view of dwarves than most designers. You say to me "Dwarven mine" and I imagine corridors of stone that has been mined, then shaped, then carved, then turned into a work of art. Buttresses that look like dwarven protectors. Supports designed and carved out of the walls themselves in feats of engineering requiring such understanding of force, mass and civil engineering that other races chalk it up to 'magic'.

    The Dwarves nailed metrology when humans were still bashing rocks together.

    They have mastered precision engineering and their mines are supposed to show that.

    These basic jaggedy, wooden-supported, minecart infested, 'mines' are offensive from a professional point of view.

    They call it 'a mine' because there are no drawings of a decent, fully planned, realised and worthy of being called 'dwarven mine'.

    A Dwarven underground road should be wide, straight as a laser and square as a gauge block. It should be seamless, go on for miles and only have deviation from the perfect design when something huge and burrowy has busted through a wall. Even then it should be on some dwarf's desk as a to-do of: "fix the seugathi hole in tunnel 43c section 485".

    From now on all my dwarven characters have ranks in profession metrology and calibration tools must be recalibrated every 12 months.

    TL:DR - my search for a Dwarven Road map continues because they are all too human hovel and I am looking for the 'sistine chapel of mines'.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

    I'm going to be starting this soon (currently at the Ironfang assault on Longshadow) and have a few questions from those who have done the Valley of Aloi.
    The cephalophores guarding the ruins "remain inactive until a creature enters the remains of the hall or otherwise interacts with the water".
    They also can travel up to 200' from the ruins to defend it.
    The aqueduct "connects to the same network that provides much of Kraggodan’s water."

    There are some unanswered questions here (at least to me).
    1 - if the party don't destroy the cephalophores and don't go through the waterfall (into the well), but instead climb down the crevasse, is the expectation that the cephalophores also follow? Definitely can't see them making the DC 25 climb check and even the DC 15 check would likely result in them falling to the bottom of the crevasse. The top levels of the warren are well within 200'.
    2 - as the aqueduct connects to the same network that supplies Kraggodan, I can see some enterprising players using that as their path to Kraggodan. A folding boat could make travel a lot easier than the Long Walk. Does that constitute interacting with the water, and if the characters do fly up to the aqueduct, how the heck are the cephalophores meant to attack? Also noting that at the Kraggodan end there is only a single mention of aqueducts in the gazetteer section, and nothing showing on the maps.
    3 - no map of the hall (E), so guessing will have to make that up from scratch - seems odd that a location that is expected to have a battle take place (and where gaze attacks / line of sight) is important) is completely missing a map. Anyone come up with something they are willing to share?


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    Mrs Camelot wrote:

    ... does anyone have a good map/gridless art of the floorplan for the aqueduct in area E and the long walk for Part 2?

    it does seem like they missed at least 2 important maps in the AP, especially when on p23 it says "The end of the mapped journey also requires a short jaunt through numerous side tunnels, of which little is recorded."

    RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

    My players are just approaching Kraggodan now, so we did this Valley a few months ago.
    I was bummed by the lack of maps for this section.
    I think I assumed the cephalophores would not do anything destructive, like try to climb down the side.
    All the different saves and rolls made this combat quite the slog to keep track of, so if your pcs find a way to avoid them, I'd skip the combat.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    Grumpus wrote:
    ... All the different saves and rolls made this combat quite the slog to keep track of, so if your pcs find a way to avoid them, I'd skip the combat.

    Thanks. I might have to give some extra thought to that encounter. Plus there is the chance of weapons breaking, which will really hamper further fights unless they are mended.

    RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

    I think some monsters make decent solo fights for lower level groups, like the cephalophore. But make terrible options for higher level groups to fight multiples of.

    good luck!


    Yeah, that part of the adventure was a little hard for me to conceptualize spatially due to the lack of maps. I realize stuff gets squeezed out for space, so it'll be an interesting challenge when I get to that part. I'm probably a couple months away from this in my campaign, so interested to see how others approached this and other parts of this book.

    I actually really like the Cephalophore fight in theory, it seems very atmospheric. In the shadow of the mountains, overlooking this giant gaping chasm, the perfectly cylindrical waterfall, two headless statues step off their pedestals.. I don't mind the weapon breaking thing since my only party 'member' who uses a weapon is the summoner PCs eidolon, and that thing is a powerhouse, so taking it down a peg will make for some good drama. The gaze with the stunned condition and the SR will make this fight a lot harder for my party.


    Has anyone put together a sketch of the The Long Walk for their PC's to "follow"?


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    Ballistic101 wrote:
    Has anyone put together a sketch of the The Long Walk for their PC's to "follow"?

    no, but will have to start thinking about this in the near future.

    The first 130 miles of the Long Walk shouldn't require a map. It's the only primary tunnel in Nar-Voth and if I'm interpreting the map in Into The Darklands correctly, the PCs will be starting at pretty much the only known route up from the Long Walk between Fellstrok and Hagegraf.

    They'll encounter Novvi 50 miles from Kraggodan and the side tunnels to there begin on the other side of the lake near the Five-Eyed Matron. IMHO there shouldn't be a map of the last 30 miles - it is just a series of narrative vignettes where you can throw in an encounter or two if you want; the pathway to Kraggodan is only known by a few duergar smugglers and their greed "ensures that the tunnel’s existence remains a well-guarded secret".
    Novvi could let them know the rumor she has heard about the tunnels, or the party could cast Find The Path, or overhear some duergar smugglers, use Zanathura’s note, or more simply just track Kharazhar. I think I'll play it by ear when I get to that part as to how to let the PCs know - maybe let them come up with their own idea :-)


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    The long walk itself is too basic to be worth a grid map. It might as well be a featureless plane. Instead, I would recommend bringing the Longwalk to life with interesting encounters, including many that don't necessarily result in combat. I came up with a list of encounters and rolled to determine when they would occur on the week long journey. If anyone wants it, I can post it, though I'm late to the party here and y'all might have moved on.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    Captain Morgan wrote:
    ... If anyone wants it, I can post it, though I'm late to the party here and y'all might have moved on.

    Perfect timing for me. My group is still in the Morlock warrens.

    I am finding though that the quality of Siege of Stone is a lot poorer than the previous ones. Major grammar mistake in Zanathura the Second's journal handout, references to maps that don't exist, the morlock chapel looks like a dead-end (still to see how it works in play), as well as the possibility that the Blightburn Sickness in the Fissure room could effectively TPK the party. And that's just Part 1.


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    (Apologies for lack of formatting, but ain't nobody got time for that.)

    I had the same character die twice in the Warrens. They were pretty much the only deaths I had after switching to PF2. But they also start dropping Raise Dead scrolls like candy about then, so. The later books account for the rocket tag nature of high level PF1 by handing out a lot of ways to come back from the dead. And the rest of the book isn’t as lethal, unless you play Elacnida really dangerously. As written she has a fair amount of plot induced stupidity that makes her more fair.

    As to the Long Walk:

    I did this by creating list of fun encounters, and then rolled a d8 for each to determine which day of the 7 day journey they would occur on—on an 8, I rerolled and the encounter occurred during that night instead. Note that these use the PF2 bestiary, so you may need to make replacements. I was unimpressed with the random encounter bestiary of this book (it has artic creatures attacking in the same trip as volcanic creatures) so I didn’t bother converting them.

    Most of this is to make this part feel like a living, breathing world and not video game that scales to your level. As such, several encounters are too easy to bother rolling initiative for and a few call for the party to hide instead of fight.

    I also wrote some little rhymes because my party liked to use three castings of Read Omens before bed every night. For days where there wasn’t three clues worth of events to foreshadow, I simply inserted random proverbs. A few are specific to my particular party.

    Day 1 Deculis: Deculi use their Shadow Sanctuary to lie in wait in the ceiling above the road. They attack but retreat if badly their HP drops low enough. Parties who successfully identify them may realize they can dispel the sanctuary to trap the bat monsters inside, but that means damning them to starve, which is a decent moral quandary.
    Gibbering Mouther: A whole pack of these attacked a duergar trade caravan, wiping almost everyone out (see below.) When the party encounters these, don’t bother rolling initiative for such weak creatures. Just ask the players what they want to do. They will likely say they want to destroy the dangerous aberrations, at which point you can handwave that they do.

    What do we do with this boy?: The lone survivor of the Gibbering Mouthers is a duergar boy by the name of Thurbek. He’s distrustful, but if the party offers to let him join them he has no real choice but to accept after losing his family. This encounter mostly serves to make the party consider “what do we do with this boy?”
    Grikkitog: Pretty standard encounter. The creature flees if it has less than 30 hit points. Look to Pride from Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood for visual inspiration.

    “Light casts no shadow in the darkest lair.
    By five crowns glory, can you stare?”
    “One cannot fight the entire earth.
    Find the center that gives birth.”

    Day 2
    Ropers: However many you feel are level appropriate. However, if the players spot them ahead of time, allow an opportunity to parley with them. My own players traded some texts of Zon Kuthon they obtained from a Velstrac Evangelist while Shadow Walking for safe passage, coupled with a demonstration of fire to show the alternative.

    Toll Patrol: Straight out of the book. I may have added an opportunity to use Intimidate to make the duergar back down, but at a very high DC.
    Slurk herd: These creatures are indifferent to the PCs and a non-threat to high level adventurers. The complications is if the PCs fall in love with the saber toothed frogs and want to bring them on the journey, at which point protecting the slurks from later threats is hard.

    “When one must cut the ties that bind, even the Midnight’s word is kind.”
    “Fear is a more powerful emotion than greed.”

    Day 3
    Cloaker: One of these stalks the party from above. When they spot it, they can probably casually shoot it out of the air. Don’t bother with initiative.
    Drow and Drider: A slaver hunting party of these encounters the PCs. Unlike their duergar equivalents, these folks are smart enough to spot a fight they shouldn’t pick, and after some brief whispered conversation they simply step to one side of the road to let the PCs pass, nodding respectfully. The question is whether the party goes for this: the drow have manacles and nets and are obviously slave hunting.

    Ghouls: A hoard of these flees right by the party, foreshadowing…

    Mukradi: This lone beast is an extreme encounter, but one the party should have an opportunity to hide from as it chases the ghouls.
    “When the death’s diners dash, better find a place to stash.”

    Day 4:
    Gogigeths: Have one or two of these attack the party and try to carry someone off. If the players succeed at identifying them, tell them that these are hive creatures and there may be dozens nearby. Create an opportunity for them to hide from this assured TPK using stealth, survival, or appropriate magic, such as using stone shape to hide the party.

    Shulns: The road is blocked by a dead purple worm, currently being feasted on by three Shulns. The shulns do not immediately attack but are initially hostile to anyone approaching their kill. Solutions may include Wild Empathy or using flight to ferry the entire party over the worm while staying out of reach of the mole rats—a wise move give this would be an Extreme encounter.
    “The hive of horrors has now stirred. Your Survival is not Assured.”
    “Hungry beast defends their kill. Your way is blocked til they get their fill. “

    Night 4
    Slave Lord – A CR 13 duergar ranger comes after Kisegar, using her invisibility to try and sneak in and abscond with her. In my game the party awoke find Kisegar had a knife to her throat. While the slave lord tried to negotiate the party allowing the Slave Lord’s departure with her quarry, Thurbek tackled her from behind giving Kisegar the chance to escape. This moment formed a bond between the two duergar, and Kisegar offers to take Thurbek on as an apprentice, thus providing a solution to “What do we do with this boy?”

    Bondage Comes in the Night. Best prepare to fight.
    “Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.”
    “Friendship is like money, easier made thank kept.”

    Day 5
    Trader in the Dark, as written.
    “All of the treasures of the dark,
    Obtain them or you’ll miss your mark.”
    An apple a day keeps the cleric away.
    “after dinner rest a while, after supper walk a mile.”

    Day 6
    Rust Monsters x 4: Good ol’ rust monsters. They are low level enough to be a non-threat but parties may be reluctant to squash the cute little buggers, even if it means risking their gear.
    “Your bodies is safe, your treasures are not.
    Protect thy claims, or have a pauper’s lot.”
    “Early to bed and early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.”
    “Friendship is like money, easier made than kept.”

    Day 7
    Burstigeit herd: Just some goat bulls. No major interactions planned, just something to add flavor.

    5 eyed Matron: As written.

    “Uphold the tenants of the Father.
    Tricking the tricksters, you need not bother.”
    “Suffer not to live a slaver,
    For their death may grant you favor.
    But if them mercy you must show,
    Demand the treasure the chitinous stows.”

    And for s’s and g’s, here’s the rhymes I wrote for the final stretch of the journey, which pretty much ran as written.
    “To avoid keep your conscious clean you may suffer yet again.”
    “Two serpents in the light may sin,
    But kill the brother and you’ll win.” ‘=
    “Great treasures are warded in the Fallen Vault,
    But great danger must you assault.
    The power of both fire and earth
    The lake of death shall be their birth.”


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    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    Captain Morgan wrote:
    (Apologies for lack of formatting, but ain't nobody got time for that.) ...

    None needed and thanks heaps for the list.

    re my previous comments on the morlock chapel and blightburn sickness - turned in to non-events. Iuwlas can only speak Undercommon, so calls to negotiate were only understood by the wizard, who chose to remain silent, while the rogue got off 4 sneak attacks. I bumped up Iuwlas' hps, but the rogue passed the telekinesis saving throw, and without the ability to do any more actions Iuwlas was promptly dispatched next round. There was at least an "oops" from the cleric once the wizard finally spilled the beans, but trying to get the party to think about negotiation as a valid first option might be more difficult than planned.
    And only the rogue failed the first blightburn save, so the party pulled back and used mage armour (from a wand) on everyone else.
    A roll or two failing rather than succeeding could dramatically swing things in the morlock warrens.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

    Question for those who had their group go from the Morlock Warrens to the Long Walk.
    G15. Path of the Long Walk says "The southwestern door leads to the Darklands and the Long Walk deep below, though the settling of the construction has wedged the door shut (Strength DC 28 to force open)"
    This is on Level 3: 240 feet below the surface.

    F. The Crevasse says "The exposed earth here descends more than 2,000 feet into the Darklands realm of Nar-Voth. After the first 1,000 feet, the fissure angles slightly to the north, naturally obfuscating sunlight to the deeper regions. It then expands into a series of lesser caverns. The bottom of the fissure connects into a larger cavern adjacent to the Darklands highway known as the Long Walk."
    and
    G17. Zanathura's Chamber has notes that say "PCs who can decipher these written languages easily piece together a rough map beginning from the base of the adjacent chasm and leading through the Darklands and into Kraggodan’s lowest levels."

    Did you have the entrance to the Long Walk through the door in G15 or 1760 feet further down at the base of the chasm/fissure? Or both?

    It looks like it should be G15, but unless there are LOTS of stairs, the path beyond the door would have to go a LONG LONG way to descend the extra 1760 feet to the 2000' deep mark at which the Long Walk exists. That's be a mile at a quite steep 1/3 gradient. Even a 10% gradient would be more than 3 miles (and I imagine that even dwarves would have trouble hauling laden carts for 3 miles up a 10% slope).

    Edit addition: wheelchair gradient standards for Australia require no steeper than 1:14 for a run longer than 1900mm and that the recommended range is 1:20 - 1:14. 1:20 would be 6 2/3 miles! A long walk before even getting to the Long Walk.

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