Hello Rules!
If I were to take the Pact Wizard Archetype (Horror Heroes) for the Wizard (which grants an Oracle curse at 1/2 progression starting from 5th level) and a level of Oracle, what happens?
Do I get two Curses? Do they stack together? Are they separate? Can I take the same one twice?
So if I had a Wizard 5 / Oracle 2:
Curse Level
Wizard = 2.5 (Half level)
Oracle = 2 (Full)
1/2 HD Other than Oracle = 2.5
For a total of 7 (at 7th level)
It would never actually exceed character level unless you use FCBs.
I know this is the rules forum so are there any other interpretations?
Oracle Curse (from Oracle) adds half non Oracle levels to determine your Curse progression.
There is no rule to my knowledge.
I'd rule the same as sorcerer bloodlines, you must take the same curse. Then I'd stack it like monk levels stack: 1/2 at 5th plus levels in Oracle.
I don't know if that follows. You can have two bloodlines and you can have two curses so I don't know if you'd be forced into adding them together unless you wanted too.
What ruling are you talking about with sorcerer bloodlines? Maybe I've missed something as I've been away from the board for a while.
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There is no rule to my knowledge.
I'd rule the same as sorcerer bloodlines, you must take the same curse. Then I'd stack it like monk levels stack: 1/2 at 5th plus levels in Oracle.
I don't know if that follows. You can have two bloodlines and you can have two curses so I don't know if you'd be forced into adding them together unless you wanted too.
What ruling are you talking about with sorcerer bloodlines? Maybe I've missed something as I've been away from the board for a while.
Bloodrager has a specific call out that if you take levels of Sorcerer the Bloodlines have to match.
If the bloodrager takes levels in another class that grants a bloodline, the bloodlines must be the same type, even if that means that the bloodline of one of the classes must change. Subject to GM discretion, the bloodrager can change his former bloodline to make them conform.
Okay so it says levels instead of Sorcerer, so that means it would cover VMC too. The only thing that would be up in the air would be Eldritch Heritage.
Seems to me that if it's lacking any language indicating that they would stack, then they'd instead be tracked independently - more like various instances of channel energy.
On the other hand, Sneak Attack from different classes stacks, I've personally always seen that as evidence that similar class features with a level-based progression should stack, even if there isn't specific language calling for it.
I believe there's a quote in monster advancement to the effect of "If the creature possesses class features (such as spellcasting or sneak attack) for the class that is being added, these abilities stack. This functions just like adding class levels to a character without racial Hit Dice."
Hmm yes, the FAQ is probably the best lead here.
In my opinion, this paragraph also points to separate curses:
If an oracle curse would add spells to the oracle’s list of spells known, the pact wizard instead add those spells to the wizard’s spell list as well as to his spellbook.
But actually, it doesn't matter that much. With separate curses you gain more benefits, but it takes a lot of levels to collect them and you are plagued with a second drawback early on. So I'd probably leave it to the player.
Oracle Curse (from Oracle) adds half non Oracle levels to determine your Curse progression.Which is a rule you'd have to ignore if the other class has a "calculate oracle level this way" rule.
I don't see why you would ignore it though. Its the Oracle adding the 0.5 per non Oracle level, not the Wizard. This seems to be opening up some worms that I didn't expect at first glance.
Either way I'm going to try to phrase this better in the off chance a Dev takes a look.
If a Character has two Oracle Curses from two different sources (such as combining the Pact Wizard Archetype for the Wizard and Oracle levels); how do the Curses interact with each other?
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I don't see why you would ignore it though. Its the Oracle adding the 0.5 per non Oracle level, not the Wizard
If you don't ignore it, you have each of those levels counted twice for the same thing. You don't see that as a problem both in the RAW and RAI and balance and math? If I had someone suggest to count the level twice by counting the 0.5 per level rule also, I'd need to do a meticulous audit of their PC.
I don't see why you would ignore it though. Its the Oracle adding the 0.5 per non Oracle level, not the WizardIf you don't ignore it, you have each of those levels counted twice for the same thing. You don't see that as a problem both in the RAW and RAI and balance and math? If I had someone suggest to count the level twice by counting the 0.5 per level rule also, I'd need to do a meticulous audit of their PC.
Balance wise you end up with the exact same Oracle level as if you took straight Oracle. No more, no less. The only cost is the almighty Caster Level. *Cue sarcasm here*
The thing is, the Wizard levels are telling you that its not full progression (even though its a class feature built into the Archetype), and the Oracle level is something else entirely.
Though discussing balance here is probably just going to derail.
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Balance wise you end up with the exact same Oracle level as if you took straight Oracle.
Though discussing balance here is probably just going to derail.
Which is higher than the rules for the Wizard "Oracle" rules permitted with it's "ignore 5 levels" rules.
Yes, derail. But balance is irrelevant really, as counting a level you've already counted isn't something the rules are written to assume someone would do. Kinda like the rules didn't expect parts of the flanking rules to be independently interpreted by some to allow for ranking flanking. Basically, you must understand what the rules are saying to follow the RAW.
So if I had a Wizard 5 / Oracle 2:
Curse Level
Wizard = 2.5 (Half level)
Oracle = 2 (Full)
Oracle "1/2 other" = 0 since the Wizard Level count already.
For a total of 4 (at 7th level)
If you used Wizard 4 / Oracle 2:
Wizard = 0, Oracle = 2, Oracle "1/2 other" = 2 for a total of 4