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Am I the only one who absolutely loves the Gillmen? The lore for them is fascinating and they're a good fit for almost any class.
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Seconded.
One of my favorite characters was a gillman dual-cursed oracle. You can read about her here (link to my blog).
Dot for interest.
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I have tried to bribe my players into playing one for my horror campaign but no one would. :( I suspect the only time anyone I know will play one is if we run the upcoming ancient Azlant AP.
On the one hand they are aquatic, on the other the are weak to Aboleths. No Bueno in that AP.
They are a very good race. Water dependency is a thing, but not impossible, simply taking a bath will do. I'd argue casting Hydraulic Push on oneself would work or even spamming Create Water and sitting in a barrel.
Mentioning spells is relevant because they make superb Sorcerers. +2 Cha and Con, -2 Wis and the Wis penalty is decently offset by a +2 save vs Enchantments. They also have the Human and best FCB for Sorcerers, they extra known spell. At this point the difference between a gillman and a human is the feat and skill point vs. amphibious and a swim speed. It's not a swap for everyone, but it is probably an upgrade in certain games.
I'm also glad they are sleek and attractive rather than barbarians with fish heads.
Cool race. And if someone is running Skulls and Shackles, pencil me in for a Gillman Sorcerer.
Not a huge fan. The mechanical weaknesses are severe (yeah, simply taking a bath works, but if things go wrong it could easily be a death sentence). No real niche other than being amphibious, but I'd rather go full Merfolk in most cases. Stronger flavor, better stats, easier weaknesses to navigate around. Gillmen are nice if Merfolk are banned, but most campaigns either ban both or allow both.
Not to mention, I can't help but imagine them as having the "Innsmouth look". (I know there's another race for that now, but still!) I can't help but have them look extremely awkward in my mind's eye.
I have given all my non-mammal love to the Grippli already, but Gillmen are pretty neat too. btw PK, what race is it that has the Innsmouth look?
Yeah, that's what I was thinking of.
(PS: Grippli are fantastic and one of my favorite races.)
If you like gillmen, JBE's Advanced Gillmen has a whole bunch of nifty new stuff in it.
I have tried to bribe my players into playing one for my horror campaign but no one would. :( I suspect the only time anyone I know will play one is if we run the upcoming ancient Azlant AP.On the one hand they are aquatic, on the other the are weak to Aboleths. No Bueno in that AP.
There is an alternate racial trait that gives them a save bonus against aboleths only. In most campaigns, that save bonus is too situational to see much use (and, conversely, the standard aboleth's weakness against aboleths should rarely come into play), but in a campaign where it is expected that aboleths will eventually be encountered, that trait should be strongly considered.
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I have tried to bribe my players into playing one for my horror campaign but no one would. :( I suspect the only time anyone I know will play one is if we run the upcoming ancient Azlant AP.On the one hand they are aquatic, on the other the are weak to Aboleths. No Bueno in that AP.There is an alternate racial trait that gives them a save bonus against aboleths only. In most campaigns, that save bonus is too situational to see much use (and, conversely, the standard aboleth's weakness against aboleths should rarely come into play), but in a campaign where it is expected that aboleths will eventually be encountered, that trait should be strongly considered.
Flavorful as all get out too.
"For generations you have controlled my family, but no more!"
The Riverfolk trait seems a little odd to me since I’d think that being oily enough you’re vulnerable to fire would make you stand out a bit. I’m kind of imagining a gillman with slicked back hair and an “oily” personality - perhaps a used boat salesman?
The Throwback trait is even odder since it seems to basically make you a human with slightly different ability scores and no bonus feat. The Eldritch Raider archetype looks kind of interesting though. Since its Detect Magic ability counts as Minor Magic you can pick up Major Magic at 4th level and then both Minor and Major Eldritch Magic at 6th level (with the favored class bonus). Since the Eldritch Raider doesn't give up much it could also be mixed with a fair number of other archetypes.
Mat's face it; aquatic races have a limited interest when conducting a non aquatic campaign... riverfolk have a bad vulnerability, and throwbacks... are those true gillmen?
Thinking about it, gillmen would make awesome kineticists...
Gillmen have too much baggage for my liking. Grippli are the way better aquaticish race from my experience but you probably wouldn't think that just from looking at me.
Gillmen have too much baggage for my liking. Grippli are the way better aquaticish race from my experience
I totally agree with you.
but you probably wouldn't think that just from looking at me.
Why do you think that? I cant figure...
Froggie POWAH!
With many divine casters water dependant shouldn't be too much of an issue: Cleric, oracle, druid, inquisitor and shaman can have Create Water as an orison. A single level of such a class should get you covered. The daily bath is still a burden, but also has some RP potential.
I like the swim speed with no drawback at land speed, but that's not enough to tempt me. However, there is an interesting racial rogue archetype: Eldritch Raider. Sacrificing trap sense and a bit of skills in favor of more spellcasting (unlimited detect magic, a 2nd level spell, a 3rd level spell) is interesting. If you really push it (burn level 3 & 5 feats), you can get the 3rd level spell at level 5, like a wizard.
The eldritch raider archtype is perfect for the upcoming ruins of Azlant AP. If you want an excuse to play a Gillman that's your AP for sure. In campaigns without a lot of aquatic components they are kind of a liability.
Yeah not aquatic as per swimming or the amphibious subtype, but ideally played as a ranger who can stride swamps with no problem.
And grippli bogborn alchemists can have a swim speed because they have a new aquatic mutagen.
I cant wait for the new archetypes incoming in blood of the beast player companion book. Kroak kroak
Returning to the tread topic, a water kineticist gillmen also can have a bath with his elemental power.
Returning to the tread topic, a water kineticist gillmen also can have a bath with his elemental power.
That idea is actually questionable at best. I recall Mark Seifter saying that it wouldn't work when I brought up the idea. Of course, I was suggesting the use of the defensive power for that purpose, not repeated uses of Create Water in a bathtub.
The Grippli is water themed but lacks the Swim speed and water breathing abilities to be fully effective in watery environments. Gillmen might excel underwater, but if the whole party is made up of gillmen that wouldn't make you stand out in any special way. Being an underwater scout of some sort for a party of surface dwellers could work though, and I'd think the Eldritch Raider would be well suited to that. You'd have to be in the right campaign though since if the DM sends you to the desert or the mountains your underwater abilities might never really come into play.
I guess that, "I'm the noble but potentially compromised amphibious descendant of ancient Atlantis/Azlant" isn't as much of a clear and easy to convey roleplaying angle as "I'm a frog" though. I guess, "I'm Submariner/Krang" could work for the right campaign though.
dolphin man.
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Phillip Fathom, Deep Sea Detective
Arise, deceased thread!
It is worth mentioning that the Player Companion Blood of the Sea has a Gillman Vigilante archetype that appears to have been custom designed for this character.
I was toying around with the idea of a gillman exciter spiritualist last year. Didn't get the chance to actually play 'em but I might end up going with it for a future campaign.
Gillmen look . . . pretty boring, actually.
When my wife ran a short Pathfinder campaign last year, she let us use pretty much anything we wanted from the CRB, APG, and ARG. Apart from our one core race PC (an elf), the gillman barbarian was the most normal-looking member of the party. (The other PCs were a kitsune, a dhampir, a nagaji, and my tengu.)
I still haven't decided whether gillmen exist in my current homebrew Pathfinder game. I ran a big aboleth fight near the end of my last campaign (Freeport), so I'm unlikely to use them again any time soon, which kind of makes gillmen a low priority for the foreseeable future.
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I do want to play as one, but I'm still unsure of what I'd do. Perhaps a shark shaman druid in Ruins of Azlant, joining in because of a desire to help the pioneers but actually a desire to rally the residents of the sea floor to fight back against the stubborn menace that floats around like they own the place.
I have a friend who wants to play as one, explicitly in an adventure with aboleth so she can get brainwashed by one. I'm discouraging that idea.
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With the FCBs given in Blood of the Sea, I would give serious consideration to playing a Gillman Medium. +1/6 to Spirit Bonus is the best FCB for that class, edging out even the Halfling bonus of +1/3 to Seance Boon.