Anything stopping you from using Lunge with Whirlwind Attack?


Rules Questions


Whirlwind Attack strips you of bonus or extra attacks from other feats but the extra 5' reach is not an extra attack. Or is it?


Extra reach =/= extra attacks, this combo is completely legit.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies, Representative - D20 Hobbies

+1 you can lunge with whirlwind.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I have used Lunge with Power Attack and Whirlwind with a scythe.

Crit fish!!


I like it with a reach weapon and spiked armor.


For extra credit, grab a Large whip and get Enlarge Person cast on you. Then have fun searching the rules forums to figure out what your reach is.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The reach is based on the character size, not the weapon, so there is a start.

Yeah, the 10' lethal vs. the 15' non-lethal with no effect on armored folk is a pain, then add in lunge (20' vs. 30?), it can get confusing.

Whip it. Whip it good.


Actually, the reach is based both on character size AND weapon size. Otherwise Large creatures using reach weapons would have reach of 15 rather than 20.

I was just (kind of) making a joke about how the whip's reach is uncertain when size increases are applied. As you note, 20', 30'? who knows? I just like the idea of having a martial battlefield controller with comparable AoE to the spell Stone Call with Widen metamagic applied.


a large whip with lunge and whirlwind is a single attack against every enemy within... 35'? It kind of makes it worth it to take Whip Mastery.


Thanks everyone. Am writing up an encounter to duplicate the fight against the Skeleton King in Diablo 3 and was looking for a way to duplicate his spinning attack so will be using an Earthbreaker as his greatmace and whirlwind attack with lunge to get his large area spin attack.

Shadow Lodge

Weapon size does not affect reach. If galahad2112 and torbyne can cite the rule saying otherwise, I would be interested in seeing it :)

One of the wonkiness of PF rules is that medium creature with a long spear, whether the longspear is medium sized or small sized or large sized, still threatens the same squares regardless of weapon size.


Sammy T wrote:

Weapon size does not affect reach. If galahad2112 and torbyne can cite the rule saying otherwise, I would be interested in seeing it :)

One of the wonkiness of PF rules is that medium creature with a long spear, whether the longspear is medium sized or small sized or large sized, still threatens the same squares regardless of weapon size.

Look up the rules and templates under thr space, reach and threatened area in the rules, reach weapons double your natural reach. For medium creatures 5 goes to 10, large have their 10 go to 20. It is not spelled out by the assumption is a whip which is 15' of reach would go to 30' on a large creature if it followed the same rule. I would add the 5' lunge after doubling but you could that gets doubled too I suppose.


Look at the statblock of a Balor Demon. It's a large creature with a whip, and its reach is 20 feet. This would suggest that a whip adds a static 10 feet to a creature's reach.


Torbyne wrote:
Sammy T wrote:

Weapon size does not affect reach. If galahad2112 and torbyne can cite the rule saying otherwise, I would be interested in seeing it :)

One of the wonkiness of PF rules is that medium creature with a long spear, whether the longspear is medium sized or small sized or large sized, still threatens the same squares regardless of weapon size.

Look up the rules and templates under thr space, reach and threatened area in the rules, reach weapons double your natural reach. For medium creatures 5 goes to 10, large have their 10 go to 20. It is not spelled out by the assumption is a whip which is 15' of reach would go to 30' on a large creature if it followed the same rule. I would add the 5' lunge after doubling but you could that gets doubled too I suppose.

That's not what he's saying. There's a difference between weapon size (small, medium, large, huge) and a reach quality. There's no rule giving reach to weapons larger than medium. So a colossal great sword (if you could somehow use one) doesn't have reach, but a medium spear does.


The dwarven dorn-dergar is more fun than a whip.


Let's bring in some examples from the NPC codex while we're at it, right? //sarcasm

From the Melee and Ranged Weapons section:

Reach Weapons: A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

From the Whip text:

...The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack.

While there is no rule (that I can find)stating that the weapon's size determines the reach granted, it IS stated that "...Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack..."
This evidence leads me to believe that the size of the weapon does have some bearing on how much reach it grants. Exactly what is open to debate.

What the whip does is differentiate itself from "...Most reach weapons..." described in the Melee and Ranged Weapons section. What this distinction causes as levels of abstraction sizes increase is unclear.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It might mean that smaller than the wielder weapons might not have reach, though this is not clearly stated anywhere I have seen.


At this point I believe that the OP's question has been effectively answered. Would all who wish to continue the reach discussion care to move to a dedicated topic?

I've created a new thread here

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