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This is going to sound like a very minor niggle, but it's been something that's bothered me for a while. This came about largely from a one-off game I was doing where the players were playing their Pathfinder alternate selves (think of the old D&D cartoon), and I was purchasing armour for my cavalier character.
Now, for full disclosure, I am an armoured fighter in the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA), and I fight in a maille hauberk. I *adore* chainmail, and think it's great. Whilst SCA combat certainly is divorced in a lot of ways from actual combat, the wearing of armour is one part that is - or can be- very authentic.
I also want to point out that I'm aware of the dangers of trying to apply real-world physics and logic to D&D.
With that said... I think the design of Medium Armours is really wonky.
If we look at Light Armours, most of them are pretty well designed (except for Leaf Armour... I can think of no reason why you'd shell out 500 gp for armour that is functionally identically to Masterwork Studded Leather or Parade Armour, which only costs 175 gp).
At the top end of the light armour, we have Chain Shirts at 100 gp, which is quite a bit more than most other armours, but it's the only one that gives a +4 armour bonus. It's a bit heavier than the others, but only by about 5 lbs, which is reasonable. It's slightly higher armour check penalty also means that some of the less protective but less encumbering light armours remain in play, depending on build and stats. The Armoured Kilt is also a nice option for customizing armours. Personally, I think that the Quilted Cloth should only a 5% Spell Failure, as the 10% makes it worthless to the people most likely to wear it - Arcane Spellcasters - but overall, I think the designers did a good job here. There is a enough variety in Light Armours without making most of the armours here rubbish.
Heavy Armour is also fairly well balanced. The only thing that raises an eyebrow is Field Plate. I like the mechanics, but it's overpriced - 1,350 gp is a heck of a price to pay just to have 1 fewer Armour check penalty over Masterwork Banded Mail, which is 400 gp. (And even more minor niggle... why is Iron Lammellar more protective than Steel Lamellar? Surely Iron is softer and more brittle a material... but I digress). Splint Mail is really the only red-headed stepchild of the lot, but it's designed to be the super cheap heavy armour option, so I give it a pass.
But Medium Armour?
As I've said, I adore maille. I would also point out that maille was THE armour for most of the medieval period, as well as in late antiquity, and it was used almost world-wide. But in Pathfinder, you'd have to be stark raving mad to choose chainmail as your character's armour.
Let's compare chainmail to a breastplate. The breastplate is 50 gp more expensive than the maille, which makes sense - after all, chainmail is demonstrably less protective than a solid steel plate. But why on earth does the breastplate weigh less, have less armour check, and less Arcane Spell Failure? Yes chainmail is supposed to be the "budget" option, but at only 50 gp difference almost every character is going to wait for one measily encounter to scrape up the difference and then buy breastplate. Either breastplates need to be more expensive so it's worth it to buy chainmail ever, or else chainmail needs to be improved.
It keeps even more bonkers when you start factoring in the eastern armours. Why would someone dish out 150 gp for chainmail when you can get the exact same thing in Four-Mirror armour for 45 gp? Yes, it weighs 5 lbs more, but for a 105 gp discount I'd take Four Mirror over chaimail any day. (This gets sillier when you realize that, historically, Four-Mirror armour was worn OVERTOP OF MAILLE.) Steel Lammellar has the same problem - it costs the same as chainmail at 150 gp, but is either identical or better than chainmail. So why would you EVER buy chainmail?
Since I'm on the subject, Horn Lamellar and Scale Mail are completely identical stat wise, but Horn costs twice as much. Finally, Mountain Pattern Armour is beyond useless. It's either equal to or worse than a breastplate in every way, and it's 50 gp more.
Pathfinder is, on the whole, a brilliantly written and overall well-designed game, and commend the people at Paizo for so much. However, I can't help but feel this small area of the game desperately needs a rework of some kind.
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I was under the impression that breastplate only covers the torso, while chainmail covers the whole body: torso, legs, arms, and head. I could be wrong, though, but if that's so, seems feasible that it would weigh more and encumber more. I have no idea how thick the breastplate would need to be to match its weight, though. If anything, I'd wonder why breastplates give more AC than chainmail does.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Just FYI, the price on Four-mirror armor got bumped up to 125gp in the errata to UE.
It would be nice if there was a reason to want every armor on the table. Make one armor have the lightest weight, one have the best AC, one have the best ACP, and one have the best ASF and then there would be a reason for various characters to choose different armors within a category.
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Part of the mental disconect here is the mashup of historic, or ratber technogical, periods. In typical fantasy fashion we have scale armor, full suits of maille, splinted armor and articulated plate side by side. There are reasons that armor types changed and were replaced in history, but we want them all present in our game. Keeping all the options is going to leave some odd realism questions. You either need to accept this or tinker it up (in a home game.)
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I was under the impression that breastplate only covers the torso, while chainmail covers the whole body: torso, legs, arms, and head. I could be wrong, though, but if that's so, seems feasible that it would weigh more and encumber more. I have no idea how thick the breastplate would need to be to match its weight, though. If anything, I'd wonder why breastplates give more AC than chainmail does.
Your thinking on this lines up perfectly with mine. If a breastplate covers less, it should be less protective; otherwise, if it's a breastplate but with leg and armour armour (of maille or some other type) it should be heavier and more encumbering.
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Just FYI, the price on Four-mirror armor got bumped up to 125gp in the errata to UE.
I didn't know that! Thank you. That makes Four Mirror far more sensible.
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There's nothing wrong with reskinning, but the other option is for a DM to talk to players about their ideal armor aesthetically. That way when loot, especially magic loot is dropped, you can give the players what they want. Are you gonna wear that full plate you bought? Or this super cool plus two fortification scale mail??
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Part of the mental disconnect here is the mashup of historic, or rather technogical, periods. In typical fantasy fashion we have scale armor, full suits of maille, splinted armor and articulated plate side by side. There are reasons that armor types changed and were replaced in history, but we want them all present in our game. Keeping all the options is going to leave some odd realism questions. You either need to accept this or tinker it up (in a home game.)
Fully understood. I'm not arguing that Pathfinder should limit itself technologically when it comes to armours. My point is purely from a mechanical standpoint; so many of the Medium Armours are mechanically worthless. Surely we should have a reason to want to use them in our games, if we're going to even bother making rules for them.
Tinkering with them for my home games is something I plan on doing; but I don't think it's too much to mention my concerns in a broader context. Other people may be thinking the same thing, and if enough people think that a rule doesn't make sense, perhaps it time to change the rule?
Food for thought.
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There's nothing wrong with reskinning, but the other option is for a DM to talk to players about their ideal armor aesthetically. That way when loot, especially magic loot is dropped, you can give the players what they want. Are you gonna wear that full plate you bought? Or this super cool plus two fortification scale mail??
In my view, a good GM should be doing that anyways. :)
they recently fixed the eastern armor, in a Errata of the ultimate equipment book I think, or maybe it was a FAQ. they are now priced better for what they do.
Can you provide a link?
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No disagreement, just laying out some context. Another point concerning horm lamellar and similiar armors, the fact that they are non-metallic is part of their value, this makes them immune to certain magical effects, and usable by druids. So they have advantages that will makes some characters choose them, in spite of increased cost or slightly reduced performance.
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Another point concerning horm lamellar and similiar armors, the fact that they are non-metallic is part of their value, this makes them immune to certain magical effects, and usable by druids. So they have advantages that will makes some characters choose them, in spite of increased cost or slightly reduced performance.
I had failed to consider that (although bizarrely, I did think of that when looking at Stoneplate in heavy armours).
Alright, fair enough. Horn Lamellar gets a pass. Iron being better than steel is still silly though. :)
In addition, the entire weight of chain mail rests on your shoulders, making it feel heavier than some heavier armors whose weights are better distributed.
Another point to remember is that not all armor styles and types are available in all cultures or settings. Eastern armors are call that because of their regional availability in certain geographic areas where the culture makes them the armor du jour.
Some armors with identical game stats but difference in price are because those armor designs are usually not prevalent in the same cultural regions.
Also it is my understanding that chain mail is so expensive because it is massively labor intensive. Mailsmiths I have talked to said it is far quicker and easier to work with metal plates to make plate armor than to make chainmail (even way more so when your doing riveted mail).
In the end for things like this I remind myself that if the stats work in game then overall that is a win to me. Much like Pathfinder is not supposed to be a perfect economic simulator (buying and selling loot) or accurate treatise on ethics or morality (alignment system) neither is it supposed to be a perfect recreation of technology or combat.
It is a game and sometimes you need to turn a blind eye to generally minor things in the name of fun and playability.
As a further example my GM has a degree in animal science and is a horse owner and equid fanatic. You should hear her go on about how stupid and wrong Pathfinder animal stats are and how animals should have more INT than the game gives them etc.
My point being if an expert in the field looks hard enough at anything in the game it will break down somewhere. Are those little things important enough to really worry about?
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The heavier part is pretty straightforward. Traditionally when you wear chainmail you aren't just wearing chainmail, you're wearing padding over you skin and rigid leather to provide additional support and protection.
You're wearing padding for any of the medium and heavy armours (except for the armoured coat and hide). Even with a breastplate or full plate, they would have rigid leather and padded gambesons underneath. Any number of historical texts will back me up on that.
In addition, the entire weight of chain mail rests on your shoulders, making it feel heavier than some heavier armors whose weights are better distributed.
Having worn and fought in the stuff, that's demonstrably false. Chainmail is always worn with a belt specifically to distribute the weight away from your shoulders.
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Having worn and fought in the stuff, that's demonstrably false. Chainmail is always worn with a belt specifically to distribute the weight away from your shoulders.In addition, the entire weight of chain mail rests on your shoulders, making it feel heavier than some heavier armors whose weights are better distributed.
Thanks -- noted for future reference.
Another point to remember is that not all armor styles and types are available in all cultures or settings. Eastern armors are call that because of their regional availability in certain geographic areas where the culture makes them the armor du jour.
Some armors with identical game stats but difference in price are because those armor designs are usually not prevalent in the same cultural regions.
Also it is my understanding that chain mail is so expensive because it is massively labor intensive. Mailsmiths I have talked to said it is far quicker and easier to work with metal plates to make plate armor than to make chainmail (even way more so when your doing riveted mail).
In the end for things like this I remind myself that if the stats work in game then overall that is a win to me. Much like Pathfinder is not supposed to be a perfect economic simulator (buying and selling loot) or accurate treatise on ethics or morality (alignment system) neither is it supposed to be a perfect recreation of technology or combat.
It is a game and sometimes you need to turn a blind eye to generally minor things in the name of fun and playability.
My point being if an expert in the field looks hard enough at anything in the game it will break down somewhere. Are those little things important enough to really worry about?
Maille is absolutely a (litany of expletives) to make, but making good quality steel for plate armour required more specialized skills and knowledge, so on that point I'd argue it's a wash.
The point about eastern armours is completely fair, but even without them we're still left with the chainmail vs. breastplate issue.
Ultimately though my argument isn't purely about realism, it's about mechanics. If I chose to purchase chainmail for my character, I'm at a not insignificant disadvantage over the breastplate. While chainmail is cheaper, it's not budget enough to be worth buying (1st level characters almost always by Scale Mail first, and then go straight to breastplate).
I grant you it's a minor point, but I think it would be better if chainmail fulfilled a role that made it a viable option.
As a further example my GM has a degree in animal science and is a horse owner and equid fanatic. You should hear her go on about how stupid and wrong Pathfinder animal stats are and how animals should have more INT than the game gives them etc.
*Laughs* I can appreciate that! Your GM might appreciate "The Last Book on Mounted Combat" by Dire Destiny. Should be on the Paizo store.
I agree 100%. I'd also like to point out how worthless Hide is, outside of that brief time at level one that a Chain Shirt isn't affordable (and even then, 99% of the time I just go with Studded Leather instead of Hide because at that point the armor check penalty hurts). And it only gets worse once Mythril quality armor becomes available.
I wish it gave like, Ice Resistance 2 or something. And that there were better item qualities for Non-Metal Armors (if anyone knows of an obscure item material that would make Hide Armor worth using, please, enlighten me!)
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I agree 100%. I'd also like to point out how worthless Hide is, outside of that brief time at level one that a Chain Shirt isn't affordable (and even then, 99% of the time I just go with Studded Leather instead of Hide because at that point the armor check penalty hurts). And it only gets worse once Mythril quality armor becomes available.
I wish it gave like, Ice Resistance 2 or something. And that there were better item qualities for Non-Metal Armors (if anyone knows of an obscure item material that would make Hide Armor worth using, please, enlighten me!)
Well, for magic items, Hide comes with a cheap charging Armor enchancement: Rhino Armor (+2, only -1 ACP, +2d6 damage on a charge) for 5K.
So designers realized how sucky Hide is so made a cheap item that gave better ACP and charge damage for 650 gp (4K for +2 armor, 150 gp for masterwork, means they gave a discount for ACP and Charge or it is cheap effect).| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree 100%. I'd also like to point out how worthless Hide is, outside of that brief time at level one that a Chain Shirt isn't affordable (and even then, 99% of the time I just go with Studded Leather instead of Hide because at that point the armor check penalty hurts). And it only gets worse once Mythril quality armor becomes available.
I wish it gave like, Ice Resistance 2 or something. And that there were better item qualities for Non-Metal Armors (if anyone knows of an obscure item material that would make Hide Armor worth using, please, enlighten me!)
The nice thing about Hide though is, whilst mostly useless, is also dirt cheap, making it useful for at least a short window. The same can't be said of chainmail; it's too expensive to be the budget option, but not good enough to be worth buying later on.
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I buy hide shirts exclusively for barbarians for the sole purpose of destroying them.
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About the leaf armor: Druid. Some a#~%!*@ GMs will get on your ass about the studs being metal so it counts.
It also works for primitive nature peoples who have magic.
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I agree 100%. I'd also like to point out how worthless Hide is, outside of that brief time at level one that a Chain Shirt isn't affordable (and even then, 99% of the time I just go with Studded Leather instead of Hide because at that point the armor check penalty hurts). And it only gets worse once Mythril quality armor becomes available.
I wish it gave like, Ice Resistance 2 or something. And that there were better item qualities for Non-Metal Armors (if anyone knows of an obscure item material that would make Hide Armor worth using, please, enlighten me!)
Well, for magic items, Hide comes with a cheap charging Armor enchancement: Rhino Armor (+2, only -1 ACP, +2d6 damage on a charge) for 5K.
So designers realized how sucky Hide is so made a cheap item that gave better ACP and charge damage for 650 gp (4K for +2 armor, 150 gp for masterwork, means they gave a discount for ACP and Charge or it is cheap effect).
That's very good to know- my biggest knowledge weak spots in this game is knowledge of specific magic items (there's just so many of them...), so I didn't actually know of this armor. I shall make sure to make this item available and known to my players.
@: Dietrich von Sachsen
As for the cheap price, I don't really see that as being significant. It's somewhat significant in the short term, if you start at level 1, but that isn't what I build a character around. If I make a character who uses Hide Armor as a significant feature (and it's a flavorful choice for a lot of character types!), then it's going to continue using Hide Armor long after the price point is a factor in the decision. And again, at that earliest point in the game, I'm more likely to pay 10 gold more for Studded Leather and have to suffer much less of an armor check penalty (albeit at a slightly lower AC, but in the short time before I get a Chain Shirt, it's livable.)
I'd argue that Chainmail, while *completely* useless, is also easier to reflavor. Hide is actually fairly unique aesthetically in being a non-metal medium armor (Armored Coat exists, but is mostly in the same boat as Hide outside of it's gimmick.). Which means you lose more from it's relative uselessness than you do from Chainmail's complete uselessness, IMO. That matters to me.
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You're wearing padding for any of the medium and heavy armours (except for the armoured coat and hide). Even with a breastplate or full plate, they would have rigid leather and padded gambesons underneath. Any number of historical texts will back me up on that.I'm not disagreeing, but I am saying that there there tends to be more weight involved (outside the armor proper) when you're dealing with chain. *shrugs*
You're wearing padding for any of the medium and heavy armours (except for the armoured coat and hide). Even with a breastplate or full plate, they would have rigid leather and padded gambesons underneath. Any number of historical texts will back me up on that.I'm not disagreeing, but I am saying that there there tends to be more weight involved (outside the armor proper) when you're dealing with chain. *shrugs*Like what, exactly?
Another point concerning horm lamellar and similiar armors, the fact that they are non-metallic is part of their value, this makes them immune to certain magical effects, and usable by druids. So they have advantages that will makes some characters choose them, in spite of increased cost or slightly reduced performance.I had failed to consider that (although bizarrely, I did think of that when looking at Stoneplate in heavy armours).
Alright, fair enough. Horn Lamellar gets a pass. Iron being better than steel is still silly though. :)
Actually, depending on your tech level, iron can be better than steel, it's not as hard, but is tougher, it will notch and bend where a low carbon steel object might break plain and simple... so it resists being struck better than a low steel equivalent and actually makes better armor.
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At the top end of the light armour, we have Chain Shirts at 100 gp, which is quite a bit more than most other armours, but it's the only one that gives a +4 armour bonus. It's a bit heavier than the others, but only by about 5 lbs, which is reasonable. It's slightly higher armour check penalty also means that some of the less protective but less encumbering light armours remain in play, depending on build and stats. The Armoured Kilt is also a nice option for customizing armours. Personally, I think that the Quilted Cloth should only a 5% Spell Failure, as the 10% makes it worthless to the people most likely to wear it - Arcane Spellcasters - but overall, I think the designers did a good job here. There is a enough variety in Light Armours without making most of the armours here rubbish.
In my experience, the efficient stats of a Chain Shirt mdkes every other liht afmor a completely moot point, save for Leather as your go-to armor on 1st adventurers. It's like the alternatives might as well not exist. If armor check penalties are an issue, of you have super high dex, just get it in Mithral.
And when it comes to the next catagory, that lightweight material throws off medium armor even more. A Breastplate suddenly has a near nonexistant check penalty and a max dex mod that even an archer could appreciate. Hell, if you knock the check penalty down wih a trait, you don't even need to be PROFICIENT to wear it without an issue. All this without hampering your movement speed.
I've had high-level rogues who've gone to Darkleaf Cloth leather armor when their Dex bonus got above +6... but other than that, yeah, chain shirts are always the go-to light armor. Honestly, I rarely see anything other than the top-AC-bonus armor in each category being used, except at the lowest of levels.
Studded Leather is fine on a medium DEX (ie, no more than +5 DEX) character until the point where you can scrounge enough money to buy a +1 Mythril Chain Shirt. After all, a +1 Studded Leather Armor is about as expensive as a normal Mythril Chain Shirt, has the same amount of AC, and neither have an armor check penalty. It's only when you start to upgrade that armor further that the Mythril Chain Shirt really starts to pull ahead in efficiency.
I find I can afford a Mythril Chain Shirt around level 4, but I usually have enough other things to buy to delay it until level 5 or even 6. In some campaigns, that is a very long time that Studded Leather is relevant.
It's still a shame that after that Mythril Chain is the way to go from that point on, but it's not quite as bad as Hide Armor, which is outclassed by level 2.
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One thing that people haven't talked about is the historical aspect.
Not the historical aspect of armor creations, but rather the historical evolution of role-playing games up to Pathfinder. Most early RPG rules were derived from historical combat simulations. Which were often far more robust "rock-paper-scissors" interactions than the straightforward "hit roll vs. AC" that is used today. Wherein some armor types were more effective against piercing or slashing weapons while others protected better from bludgeoning. In some systems an attack angainst an appendage was normal strategy (or a common result on a "hit location" chart).
In those systems a breastplate provided amazing protection for the torso but nothing at all for any other part of the body. The price was correspondingly low. As the armor rules have simplified over time, it kept the core protection characteristics but the negatives of not protecting your extremities have fallen out of the rules system. The breastplate pricing has not been updated to keep pace.
TL;DR - The breastplate's AC is too high for the current combat system.
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I have a related issue with magically strengthened primitive armor. Magically strengthening a material (say, bone) costs 100 gp per pound. So, for a bone breastplate to perform (mostly) like a steel breastplate, it would cost 3200 gp. Compare with a Dragonhide breastplate, which costs 700 gp.
That is to say, if you want to wear a non-metal breastplate, it's more cost effective to kill a colossal dragon than to magically strengthen bone. Consequently, killing colossal dragons for armor is the preferred method of making non-metal breastplates and using magically strengthened primitive materials puts you at a disadvantage.
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I have a related issue with magically strengthened primitive armor. Magically strengthening a material (say, bone) costs 100 gp per pound. So, for a bone breastplate to perform (mostly) like a steel breastplate, it would cost 3200 gp. Compare with a Dragonhide breastplate, which costs 700 gp.
That is to say, if you want to war a non-metal breastplate, it's more cost effective to kill a colossal dragon than to magically strengthen bone. Consequently, killing colossal dragons for armor is the preferred method of making non-metal breastplates and using magically strengthened primitive materials puts you at a disadvantage.
That process though requires you to, ya'know, find and kill a colossal sized dragon.
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I still remember the days of 3.0, where the 200gp breastplate got you an entire friggin' set of armor, with a breastplate, backplate, greaves, a helmet, and a light suit of studded leather/brigandine.
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That process though requires you to, ya'know, find and kill a colossal sized dragon.I have a related issue with magically strengthened primitive armor. Magically strengthening a material (say, bone) costs 100 gp per pound. So, for a bone breastplate to perform (mostly) like a steel breastplate, it would cost 3200 gp. Compare with a Dragonhide breastplate, which costs 700 gp.
That is to say, if you want to war a non-metal breastplate, it's more cost effective to kill a colossal dragon than to magically strengthen bone. Consequently, killing colossal dragons for armor is the preferred method of making non-metal breastplates and using magically strengthened primitive materials puts you at a disadvantage.
That really, really depends on the table. As written, it just costs 700 gp and the vendor worries about materials. Any limitation of availability is strictly on your GM (just like any other special material) and is as much of a solution to this issue as to the problem of chainmail/breastplate disparity.
Also, Stone Plate made of obsidian seems like it would be pretty sexy if it wasn't more than the price of +2 armor…
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In addition, the entire weight of chain mail rests on your shoulders, making it feel heavier than some heavier armors whose weights are better distributed.
Nope. Your belt supports it too. Chain is by far the most comfy armor to move around in, even better than leather.
The PRD still lists four mirror as 45.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/armor.htm l
Actually the worst item on the list is scale mail, which stopped being worn around Roman time- in fact the Romans only used it ceremonially.
Perhaps they meant Brigandine?
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That process though requires you to, ya'know, find and kill a colossal sized dragon.I have a related issue with magically strengthened primitive armor. Magically strengthening a material (say, bone) costs 100 gp per pound. So, for a bone breastplate to perform (mostly) like a steel breastplate, it would cost 3200 gp. Compare with a Dragonhide breastplate, which costs 700 gp.
That is to say, if you want to war a non-metal breastplate, it's more cost effective to kill a colossal dragon than to magically strengthen bone. Consequently, killing colossal dragons for armor is the preferred method of making non-metal breastplates and using magically strengthened primitive materials puts you at a disadvantage.
Which must be easy (or the demand bizarrely low), or the price would be higher. Or maybe adventurers mine it from the Paraelemental Demiplane of Dragonhide.
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Actually the worst item on the list is scale mail, which stopped being worn around Roman time- in fact the Romans only used it ceremonially.Perhaps they meant Brigandine?
Well Scale Armour wasn't exclusively worn ceremonially, and even as late as the 1400's some parts of medieval armour had scale components, typically as a skirt covering the groin. But you're right, it was never very popular for a number of reasons.
That said, if we want to go that route, we need to realize that Studded Leather is a complete fantasy. I suspect that was a mis-reading of brigandine from tomb effigies, which has studs, but the rivets are holding metal plates behind the leather or cavnas.
But studded leather has been around so long that it's pretty much a D&D trope.
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In my experience, the efficient stats of a Chain Shirt mdkes every other liht afmor a completely moot point, save for Leather as your go-to armor on 1st adventurers. It's like the alternatives might as well not exist. If armor check penalties are an issue, of you have super high dex, just get it in Mithral.And when it comes to the next catagory, that lightweight material throws off medium armor even more. A Breastplate suddenly has a near nonexistant check penalty and a max dex mod that even an archer could appreciate. Hell, if you knock the check penalty down wih a trait, you don't even need to be PROFICIENT to wear it without an issue. All this without hampering your movement speed.
I find a lot of my players with high dexterities go for MW Studded Leather for much of their early career because of the armour check and weight. Obviously once they can afford it, mithril is brilliant.
I also see a lot of players use leather, studded leather, and leather lamellar as barding for their horses for the protection, without hampering the horses' movement.
EDIT: Also, Lamellar Cuirass is the best armour for spellcasters. +2 AC, +4 Max Dex, no Armour Check and only 5% Spell Failure. And it's a bargain at 15 gp.
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there is studded leather armour in the old Ladyhawke film... it didn't look particularly ludicrous either, it might have been replaced by chainmail and brigandine in our world, but there's no impossibility against it in a fantasy one.
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Isnt studded leather just mislabeled jack of plate?
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I suspect the historical ancestor of studded leather is the Merovingian "broigne masclee", where you reinforced a leather jack by sewing iron rings onto it it wasn't real chain or scale because there was less metal coverage, but it did reinforce the jack and did not involve studs which would have been a liability as explained above. (unless it's a misinterpretation of chainmail and haqueton, of course... old Viollet le Duc was prone to such fancies) but I read about that thing when I wasa kid, and it stuck