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I've been thinking about running a sci-fi themed game in Pathfinder and have already found some great material for it (in my opinion of course) with the "Star Tramps" 3pp line.
Star Tramps doesn't add any new classes, but it does give list of existing Paizo classes which fit the theme, as well as some minor adjustments for them. As far as casters go, for the setting as given in the book, they are stated as not recommended flavor wise, but nothing is stopping you from using casters in a more science fantasy setting.
But, I'm curious. What are some ideas to give casters a more sci-fi feel. Just saying their spells are gadgets they make at the start of the day is okay, but it doesn't really help to make wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc, look unique to each other.
I look forward to your all's thoughts...
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I honestly always wanted to run a game setting with a concept I call "digital alchemy" or "digital arcana." This involves computerized devices that artificially replicate the process of spellcasting. So you might have a smartphone-like device that casts cantrips. Spellcasters are essentially like programmers where wizards have a cyberdeck-like device instead of a spellbook.
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In my PF Modern setting sorcerers are a result of genetic experimentation rather than heritage.
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In my PF Modern setting sorcerers are a result of genetic experimentation rather than heritage.
Are their powers still "magic" or are they referred to as some other force?
I honestly always wanted to run a game setting with a concept I call "digital alchemy" or "digital arcana." This involves computerized devices that artificially replicate the process of spellcasting. So you might have a smartphone-like device that casts cantrips. Spellcasters are essentially like programmers where wizards have a cyberdeck-like device instead of a spellbook.
You might be interested in looking at The Irregular at Magic High School - it's a... weird... series in some regards, but the world-building is kind of phenomenal.
But, I'm curious. What are some ideas to give casters a more sci-fi feel. Just saying their spells are gadgets they make at the start of the day is okay, but it doesn't really help to make wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc, look unique to each other.
I look forward to your all's thoughts...
Arcane Spells would be more Steempunk.
Make each Spells Known as a gadgets, that have to be powers every morning.Wizards would carry more smaller gadgets.
Sorcerers would have less bigger gadgets that could be powered on the fly.
Divine would be more single programming.
Clerics would carry a Labtop Computer from there Corporate God.
Paladins and Rangers would carry a Tablet or Smartphone from a Corporate God.
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The technomages from Babylon 5 are one approach, the Flux and Anchor books another.
Standard wizards actually make more sense as technological tricksters.
For the 3PP Magic:
Spheres of Power would work very well for Implant/Augment based magic.
Akashic Veils would fit very well as tech based.
Psionics, crystals and all really don't need a reskin.
Are their powers still "magic" or are they referred to as some other force?
If you've ever played bioshock, it's seen as magical as plasmids are magical in Rapture. It's not realistic that altering your genetics would let you shoot bees out of your arms, but it happens because splicing.
But the setting technically doesn't refer to anything as magic... since if it's physically possible, it must be physically possible and thus isn't magic.
I've always thought a wizard/sorcerer could work as a programmer using a hand-held tablet with limited battery power (enough to do your daily spell slots and serving as the spellbook), then either activating ship/station systems to work as spell effects - a fireball is igniting a gas line through the vents in the area of effect (it's not magic, though it works exactly as the spell). Optionally, the programmer could posses a storage unit of nanobots that you command and perform spell effects - from fireballs to healing spells. Mechanically it's no different than any spellcaster, you just adjust the fluff, process and explanation. I'd imagine they could use a laser sidearm and small vibro-blade, no armor, etc.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
I like the idea of a powerful programmable tablet for wizards (a "spell book") capable of a number of potent effects, but limited based on the programming ability of the wizard ("spells known/spells per day.") You could go with something like the Protoss from StarCraft, here, where the magical effects are already produced somewhere, and the effect is just summoning/teleporting them to the location that you're aiming at. So a fireball, for instance, wouldn't be the tablet actually producing a fireball, it would be executing a program that teleports a small orb of fire from, say, the sun, and launches it at someone. Having a higher "caster" level means designing a better .exe file, and drawing more of whatever it is that you're doing. And so on.
I'd probably run sorcerers - as they're essentially like wizards without the spellbook, but greater limitations - as using similar technology, but executing their abilities through cybernetic implants and enhancements. So knowing jump is less a matter of running an .exe that temporarily imports lesser gravity, and more a matter of turning on the little boosters you installed in your calves. Like a wizard, higher caster level means better cybertech.
Druids work in a similar regard to sorcerers, but here you go into gene-splicing and mutations rather than cybertech.
Clerics seem trickiest for me, for some reason. I suppose their holy symbol should be a powerful medical device, similar to a Star Trek tricorder. That's probably the cleanest method, and retains their need for their "holy symbol" as a focus as well as keeping their identity as doctors and healers.
Bards could genuinely have some great personal media tech - think an iPod on steroids (or, of course, actual musical instruments - or a vocal implant.) We're already designing sound-based technology that disrupts and alters behavior, so an advanced form of that kind of tech seems appropriate for the bard.
Just some initial thoughts off the top of my head. Hope they're helpful.
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While it won't give you any help mechanics-wise, you may want to take a look at the Red Star graphic novels. They portray magic in a technological world-setting in a somewhat clever way (mostly, bulky technological material components).
Though it's not specifically for Pathfinder, this was my entry into this year's One Page Dungeon Contest which earned the Penultimate Winner's Circle Award, as a FREE product from my DTRPG publisher page. Rather than just one page, I've created a more detailed room-by-room gazetteer aboard a large star ship or space station with an interesting story line, that would work best as the start of a sci-fi arc. Although it is game system agnostic (by contest rules), I did design it with PF in mind and I think it plays like a PF one-shot. The included Manta 6 man 100 ton star ship includes Traveller RPG ship stats, because I didn't have an alternate ship rules to use. It includes a layered PDF map allowing you to shut off labels, effects, grid and escape ship for player use if you want. Download it and tell me what you think. The mini-adventure is called Rude Awakening
The technomages from Babylon 5 are one approach, the Flux and Anchor books another.
Standard wizards actually make more sense as technological tricksters.For the 3PP Magic:
Spheres of Power would work very well for Implant/Augment based magic.
Akashic Veils would fit very well as tech based.
Psionics, crystals and all really don't need a reskin.
The Technomages of Bablylon 5 are merely tricksters with Shadow tech. Their tricks are effective against the ignorant, but to advanced creatures such as the Vorlons, (who would exterminate them on sight), and the Shadows, who can turn them off at will.) Which is why they pretty much ran off into hiding when the war started to heat up.
There was an old Anime series called Scrapped Princess where the incantations were essentially command phrases, combined with visual effects that resembled glowing circuit boards in mid air.
For example casting say Magic Missile might be something like
"System access request, Class 1 Tactical Invocation Magic Missile, Single Target, range 15 meters. Release"
Mechanically nothing really changes but the basic feel is very different
I agree with a lot of this thread.
For Magus, use the voice command gun tech of Judge Dredd in a melee weapon.
I second nanites as a good tech for this, very versatile, possibly best for the wizard.
Robotics and 3D printing for Summoner's eidolon and spells.
Mutations via gene editing seem like a natural for the sorcerer blood lines. If X-Men show anything, it's how varied genetic mutations effects can be within limited focuses.
Alchemists don't need reflavoring. Big Pharma.
Cleric: Advanced AI that others not in the know think is a god, not a Corporate Product Branded Intelligence. Leveling is upgrading the AI.
Oracle: Scavenged damaged AI tech, maybe?
Witch: I feel like one of the classes should be the primitivist, and this is the one I chose. The familiar could be a connection to the old gods, Gaia, or to ley lines.
Inquisitor and War Priest: Mecha suit, as a lot of their tech is self-buffs, and it could be connected to divine powers through the Corporate Products that clerics use.
Bards: Psychic powers from advanced brain structures of the future allow for buffs, charms, and sonic effects.
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Other techs to consider:
Instantaneous crowd-sourcing for either buffs or divination.
3D printing has a lot of applications, although I like it best for summoning.
Frickin' lasers for the gunslinger, of course.
Cloning could be a good way for the summoner.
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I don't remember the name of it, but a friend of mine told me about a series that's set in a more-or-less modern or near-future world with magic. It's pretty much just proper magic, same as you see in fantasy, but the feel all comes from how it's treated in-universe. Namely, that magic is considered by the setting's characters as just another branch of physics, following its own - but still testable, verifiable, and quantifiable - laws. In particular, as I recall, people skilled in magic are treated like computer programmers, and they in turn treat magic like computer code. I don't really know if it is actual code or not, but I think that merely its thoroughly "scientific" treatment is all that's necessary for the effect. Magic spells, enchanted items, even monsters' abilities are never handwaved as being "just magic", but can instead be studied, analyzed, and effects can be directly adapted from one thing to another with a skilled enough technician. For example, I believe a central plot revolved around a terrorist organization analyzing and isolating the effect of a basilisk's gaze (as in the actual monster's ability to petrify those it looks at) and figuring out how to apply it to the nation's security camera network.
Now, I'd have to sit down and really think about this to figure out how you might modify the mechanics to allow for this sort of thing, but again, simply treating spells as being another set of mundane rules of the universe could go a long way on its own.
A similar variation would be alchemy in Fullmetal Alchemist. The effects are so varied and wondrous that most alchemy is functionally magical spells, but every single effect has some sort of explanation that follows other real-world physical laws (at least within the realm of narrative plausibility - there are examples of full-on magicless sci-fi which stray much further from real physics). If you're unfamiliar with it, I recommend watching at least the first dozen or so episodes of Brotherhood to get some ideas for how it handles this. What would probably help is to define, very basically - a sentence or two at most - how your magic system works, and then use that to define what it can - and more importantly, can't - do. I also recommend you use very simple, basic rules for these things (can manipulate matter, cannot create something from absolutely nothing, etc.), and allow your players creative freedom in figuring out how to get around these limitations to produce spell effects that might all in the gray area between these rules.
You are talking about Charles Stross' Laundry Files series on your first description, if I remember correctly, the specific book you are referencing containing the "basilisk effect" was "The Atrocity Archives". It should be noted that magic in the series is Really dangerous, even for the pros. There is nothing warm and fuzzy in the series that isn't hiding some ugly fangs and claws. We are talking about the impending destruction of the human race, the planet, and whatever else the Cthulhu crowd steps on when they return.
That series sounds awesome, also I'm totally stealing that sort of feel for my next game I run
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You are talking about Charles Stross' Laundry Files series on your first description, if I remember correctly, the specific book you are referencing containing the "basilisk effect" was "The Atrocity Archives". It should be noted that magic in the series is Really dangerous, even for the pros. There is nothing warm and fuzzy in the series that isn't hiding some ugly fangs and claws. We are talking about the impending destruction of the human race, the planet, and whatever else the Cthulhu crowd steps on when they return.
Excellent! I'd been trying to rediscover what the series was called so I could check it out. If I got anything woefully off in my description, remember that this was fuzzy memories of what my friend told me about it - plenty of room for error.
Though it should also be said that it's perfectly possible to snatch some ideas from a setting without taking all of them, if they don't suit the setting you're trying to build.
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The Technomages of Bablylon 5 are merely tricksters with Shadow tech. Their tricks are effective against the ignorant, but to advanced creatures such as the Vorlons, (who would exterminate them on sight), and the Shadows, who can turn them off at will.) Which is why they pretty much ran off into hiding when the war started to heat up.
Which is why in my headcanon the Technomages aren't connected with the Shadows at all, they're the descendants of servants of one of the other "First Ones" who left the galaxy a long time ago. The animosity with the Vorlons comes from the Technomages doing everything they can to keep the remaining "magical" artifacts left behind by their creators out of the hands of the Vorlons and Shadows.
Honestly, the "reveal" that the Mages were former servants of the Shadows irritated the hell out of me. Every. Single. Thing in the universe did not have to be connected to the idiotic, whiny little pissing match between the Shadows and the Vorlons!
The Technomages of Bablylon 5 are merely tricksters with Shadow tech. Their tricks are effective against the ignorant, but to advanced creatures such as the Vorlons, (who would exterminate them on sight), and the Shadows, who can turn them off at will.) Which is why they pretty much ran off into hiding when the war started to heat up.
Which is why in my headcanon the Technomages aren't connected with the Shadows at all, they're the descendants of servants of one of the other "First Ones" who left the galaxy a long time ago. The animosity with the Vorlons comes from the Technomages doing everything they can to keep the remaining "magical" artifacts left behind by their creators out of the hands of the Vorlons and Shadows.
Honestly, the "reveal" that the Mages were former servants of the Shadows irritated the hell out of me. Every. Single. Thing in the universe did not have to be connected to the idiotic, whiny little pissing match between the Shadows and the Vorlons!
That wasn't actually in the show right? Even Crusade?
I don't remember it at all.
It comes out in the only novel series that was actually recognised as canon by J.M. Strazynski, The Fall of the Technomages. The technomages totally make sense as renegade pawns of the Shadows as they are obviously wielding tech that's beyond even Minbari levels, but they themselves don't even understand it. And everything about the Technomages, especially their personal ships, screams Shadow tech to me.
And yes every single thing was connected because the Shadow War is the foundation of the whole Babylon 5 story arc, it's literally the reason for the cosmology's existence. Not even the technomages know the full extent of the origin of their powers, and when they find out how their powers come about it's horrific enough to please even James Jacobs.
The Technomages of Bablylon 5 are merely tricksters with Shadow tech. Their tricks are effective against the ignorant, but to advanced creatures such as the Vorlons, (who would exterminate them on sight), and the Shadows, who can turn them off at will.) Which is why they pretty much ran off into hiding when the war started to heat up.
Which is why in my headcanon the Technomages aren't connected with the Shadows at all, they're the descendants of servants of one of the other "First Ones" who left the galaxy a long time ago. The animosity with the Vorlons comes from the Technomages doing everything they can to keep the remaining "magical" artifacts left behind by their creators out of the hands of the Vorlons and Shadows.
Honestly, the "reveal" that the Mages were former servants of the Shadows irritated the hell out of me. Every. Single. Thing in the universe did not have to be connected to the idiotic, whiny little pissing match between the Shadows and the Vorlons!
That wasn't actually in the show right? Even Crusade?
I don't remember it at all.
As Drahliana says above it was revealed in the B5 tie-in novels, and was supposed to be the big reveal at the end of Crusade's first season - but the show was canceled before a full season was filmed.
As Drahliana says above it was revealed in the B5 tie-in novels, and was supposed to be the big reveal at the end of Crusade's first season - but the show was canceled before a full season was filmed.The Technomages of Bablylon 5 are merely tricksters with Shadow tech. Their tricks are effective against the ignorant, but to advanced creatures such as the Vorlons, (who would exterminate them on sight), and the Shadows, who can turn them off at will.) Which is why they pretty much ran off into hiding when the war started to heat up.
Which is why in my headcanon the Technomages aren't connected with the Shadows at all, they're the descendants of servants of one of the other "First Ones" who left the galaxy a long time ago. The animosity with the Vorlons comes from the Technomages doing everything they can to keep the remaining "magical" artifacts left behind by their creators out of the hands of the Vorlons and Shadows.
Honestly, the "reveal" that the Mages were former servants of the Shadows irritated the hell out of me. Every. Single. Thing in the universe did not have to be connected to the idiotic, whiny little pissing match between the Shadows and the Vorlons!
That wasn't actually in the show right? Even Crusade?
I don't remember it at all.
It's fully detailed in the Technomage supplement to the B5RPG.
Maybe take a cue from the Fate anime series, which refers to people having "magic circuits" in a mostly metaphorical sense, and make it literal.
It would be interesting to imagine that spontaneous casters have been infected with some kind of nanomachines that develop into literal circuitry throughout their body as they gain power. In that case, each spell is actually a subroutine that they have formatted into bioelectrical circuitry to mimic. It would also explain why the effects are limited per day, because they tax the nervous system.
You might also want to watch the Tenchi Muyo OVAs. They're clarktech at it's best.
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I find that Alchemists, by and large, work pretty well as is, just noting that their mutagens are effectively either nanomachines or growth hormones/steroids, and their extracts are technological devices.
Bump. Just this once.
I just want to see if anyone else has any ideas or suggestions to add.