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I have a really stupid character that I've enjoyed playing as of late. He uses a musket and vital strike on the first round of combat, then promptly drops it and closes for melee. Hes a Gunslinger (Techslinger) / Swashbuckler (Guiding Blade). He's a terribly optimized character but he's a hell of a lot of fun to play. He uses armor spikes as his light piercing weapon. He uses opportune redirect/riposte... with his shoulder. He's an idiot. I love playing him.
Talking about PFS, right? I don't believe the Techslinger is PFS legal.
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The problem with most switch hitters is that when you get to around level 5 you realize there is no reason to drop your bow, and you're actually just an archer who took power attack.
I guess I'll have to decide if I'm going to make him an archer then, and not take PA, or leave him with PBS and PS and start building a different focus.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I have a really stupid character that I've enjoyed playing as of late. He uses a musket and vital strike on the first round of combat, then promptly drops it and closes for melee. Hes a Gunslinger (Techslinger) / Swashbuckler (Guiding Blade). He's a terribly optimized character but he's a hell of a lot of fun to play. He uses armor spikes as his light piercing weapon. He uses opportune redirect/riposte... with his shoulder. He's an idiot. I love playing him.Talking about PFS, right? I don't believe the Techslinger is PFS legal.
There's a boon for that.
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I agree about not switching. When your bow is a +1, and you have stuff to make your bow awesome, and you have 2 attacks, and maybe 3 with your bow, Spending a move action to pull out a sword and swing doesn't seem like the smart choice. Especially since it'll be less accurate because of the lower str than dex and anything that is for bows, like weapon focus or weapon training.
Then this problem just gets worse and worse as you get higher and your bow is more and more awesome.
Or the inverse. If you take 2 archery feats and then focus on your sword, then the bow becomes less and less good. It's not worth having your bow out and then needing to draw your sword as a move action when you want to full attack. Or spending extra rounds shooting a bow when you should be running in to melee.
An archer should have like a backup morningstar to use when grappled and since it's a real backup option you don't need to spend any feats for it.
And a melee should have a backup bow, dex 1 or 2 and full bab is pretty accurate for the times you're using a bow. Times when the enemy is like 100+ ft away, or flying and never getting into melee range and no fly exists (really, you should have access to flight more than relying on your bow) because these times you have a clear shot and no one is in combat with it, since if anyone should it's you being a melee focused guy.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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How does Lethal Grace factor in?
You have used a Vigilante talent to get Dex to hit and a level dependent bonus to damage. The problem is it is only for melee attacks and only available to Vigilantes.
If you are going mostly archery, it could help you when you need to pull a weapon. The problem is that the Vigilante's class features appear to work best with a melee build. It has many of the same problems as a rogue when it comes to getting their Hidden Strike off in the case of a stalker.
I may well have missed something, but I don't see it helping a vigilante become a switch hitter.
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If you're an archer and are literally out of talents to take and then take that to make your backup attack better then okay. But this shouldn't happen because of signature weapon and the ability to get combat feats as if a partial fighter to help get all the archery feats.
If you're an archer and pick that up then for 90% or more of the time you have a wasted ability. Because you're still down the magic item bonus, any bow specific stuff like Signature Weapon and PBS and rapid shot and manyshot and..., and the question is, WHEN are you going to switch? When is it worth switching to a different weapon that has the same or less damage die, and less bonuses. The only time I can think of when a bow isn't a good option is if you're grappled.
If your a melee using that, then it makes the backup bow more accurate, but again, if someone is in melee so that you'd need precise shot, you should be in melee, so you don't need to spend any feats on it.
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All of these arguments seem to miss out on the fact that sometimes one facet of combat is impossible. Archery through wind walls, fickle winds, underwater...melee combat against someone with antilife shell up...dead magic zones, intellect devourers against mages...
Having game for when your M.O. isn't an option is often the difference between life and death.
I've been happy with all of my switch-hitter builds. Quick Draw helps with the action economy of you have a feat to spare.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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The character was built with an intention of switch hitting. I'm asking for a simple answer. Continue, or go melee?
Go Switch Hitter, and get Opening Volley
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All of these arguments seem to miss out on the fact that sometimes one facet of combat is impossible. Archery through wind walls, fickle winds, underwater...melee combat against someone with antilife shell up...dead magic zones, intellect devourers against mages...
Having game for when your M.O. isn't an option is often the difference between life and death.
I've been happy with all of my switch-hitter builds. Quick Draw helps with the action economy of you have a feat to spare.
And those situations are handled by spending no feats or real money and just having a backup one handed weapon for your archer and a backup bow for your melee guy.
One handed can be wielded two handed for extra damage, and it'll work underwater. No need to blow a feat for something that should only happen 5% or less of the time.
If there's wind wall and the like, then move so it's not an issue and use your better bow, or accept this again, fairly uncommon tactic that is negated by a magic item enhancement, and do your morningstar. full bab and +3 to hit for masterwork and 1d8+3 damage, while not a lot, is to me acceptable for this backup situation.
For the anti-life shell, there should be nothing in melee so no need for feats.
And quickdraw is now another feat to take to support this idea. If I'm using a bow, having 2 feats for rapid shot and deadly aim seem better than focusing on the backup melee of power attack and quickdraw.
If focusing on melee, getting even toughness and iron will seem better options than PBS and precise shot.
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The character was built with an intention of switch hitting. I'm asking for a simple answer. Continue, or go melee?Go Switch Hitter, and get Opening Volley
Thanks.
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There's a boon for that.I have a really stupid character that I've enjoyed playing as of late. He uses a musket and vital strike on the first round of combat, then promptly drops it and closes for melee. Hes a Gunslinger (Techslinger) / Swashbuckler (Guiding Blade). He's a terribly optimized character but he's a hell of a lot of fun to play. He uses armor spikes as his light piercing weapon. He uses opportune redirect/riposte... with his shoulder. He's an idiot. I love playing him.Talking about PFS, right? I don't believe the Techslinger is PFS legal.
Yep, he's PFS and has the boon from [REDACTED] to open up that option.
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All characters should have a plan for melee and ranged combat, even if the plan regards avoiding one of them.
That melee/ranged build sounds nice. I recommed Bayonets and either a Firearm or Crossbow. I like the bayonet because it's a two handed weapon that weighs almost nothing and doesn't require you to drop your ranged weapon.
The downside is that there is some table variation regarding the actions required to "drawn" the bayonet and then attach it, since it doesn't specify where the bayonet is when you are using the move action to attach it. Personally, I think the intention is that action to draw it is included in attaching it, but that's not backed by rules so I expect different GMs to rule it different ways.
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The problem with bayonets is that, last I checked, PF uses plug-style bayonets that go into the barrel and stop you from being able to shoot.
You are correct. It's a move action that doesn't provoke to attach or remove it. Doesn't require dropping the ranged weapon, and it is a 2-handed weapon (1.5x strength).
And despite the idea that the bayonet mounts in the barrel, there is no language to suggest that the gun or crossbow cannot remain loaded while the bayonet is attached. You still can't fire with it attached, but you could move action to remove the bayonet and then fire as a standard action provided it was loaded at an earlier date.
As I read it, the bayonet mount obstructs firing of the weapon, but doesn't actually mount in the barrel or in place of the bolt. Kinda silly, but that's how it reads.
I just wish they'd clarify what happens if you try to use the bayonet while it's not attached. You'd think it just gets treated as a dagger, but the actual item description/rules fails to say.
I'm tempted to pick up one with a crossbow to brawler flurry with it. Just for the silliness.
-j