Seeing how this adventure path begins, the player's lack of memories, and the eventual reveal...how do I handle a TPK? Is it just Game over? Do I have them roll up another group of amnesiacs? Who would carry on the quest?
But that's basically invincibility.
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This AP is based on the Call of cthulhu game, in which it's understood that your character is going to die or go insane (or both). It's a question of When, not if.
In my humble opinion, the Strange Aeons campaign ought to reflect that spirit of the CoC game, rather than a watered down PF game, masquerading as a CoC game. I say wipe the party out, and let the chips fall where they may.
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This AP is based on the Call of cthulhu game, in which it's understood that your character is going to die or go insane (or both). It's a question of When, not if.
In my humble opinion, the Strange Aeons campaign ought to reflect that spirit of the CoC game, rather than a watered down PF game, masquerading as a CoC game. I say wipe the party out, and let the chips fall where they may.
That does sound like something a "Killer GM" would say. :)
What if the PCs die? DOOM, that's what! DOOOOOOOOOM!!! :P
Yes, but is it in "I'm Too Young To Die" mode, "Hey, not too rough" mode, "Hurt Me Plenty" mode, "Ultra-Violence" mode, "Nightmare" mode, or "Ultra Nightmare" mode?
If you want to GM fiat them all not dieing without making death seem irrelevant, tack on a price. for example they are now afflicted by a corruption.
That does sound like something a "Killer GM" would say. :)
I imagine it does.
I have played in real call of cthulhu games. I probably averaged at least 1 character demise as a player, every 2 game sessions. In some sessions I actually died more than once in the same day. It is a great game, and seeing how long your character can stay alive and sane becomes the goal. During the finale of "Horror on the Orient express", I had 10 (that's right, TEN) character demises that day alone. The CoC game allows you to improve your character's skills, but you remain at low HP, and you're always a "Keepers 01 roll" away from an unpleasant (but often humorous) character squish. The Pathfinder system doesn't remotely translate to the CoC rules system, which admittedly makes it a lot easier for Pathfinder characters to survive in Strange Aeons. A GM who wants to capture the spirit of the actual CoC game, during Strange Aeons for the Pathfinder system, will need to play heavy handed, and ideally inform the players what they're getting into from the get-go.
For the curious, the GM of my "Horror on the Orient express" campaign, posted his write up on the campaign journals on these (paizo) message boards. Have a look and a laugh, and read what an actual CoC game is like. The GM (Turin the Mad) took no prisoners during the entire campaign, and we died in droves. It was a blast.
That does sound like something a "Killer GM" would say. :)I imagine it does.
I have played in [a] real call of cthulhu games. The Pathfinder system doesn't remotely translate to the CoC rules system, which admittedly makes it a lot easier for Pathfinder characters to survive in Strange Aeons. A GM who wants to capture the spirit of the actual CoC game, during Strange Aeons for the Pathfinder system, will need to play heavy handed, and ideally inform the players what they're getting into from the get-go.
The Players' Guide for the AP handles some expectations up front fairly well, especially for those able to 'read between the lines'.
A GM expecting to run a heavy-handed Strange Aeons campaign will not have a campaign for long if they do not disclose such in advance.
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From the perspective of someone playing in the campaign and having only gotten halfway through the accursed Iris Hill: when the entire original party dies, there might not be any super-compelling reason for the non-amnesiac portion of the party to keep on with the quest.
"Okay, those things just killed Ragnar and Elsa, Flynn died yesterday, and we lost Mikhaila and Zigi-wi the day before that. Also it's creepy here. Let's beat it, guys. We're not strong enough to take on this Count or these weird monsters we've never heard of before!"
The original PCs do appear to have two compelling reasons to continue their quests if the party doesn't wipe out early:
1. Regaining their lost memories
2. Revenge against Lowls--not only for themselves, but maybe on behalf of those who were hurt by the Count in pursuit of his goals. If the party is good this works. But a neutral/lightly evil party?
Without at least one original PC, why *would* other PCs stay? Sure, maybe they'd save Thrushmoor just because they're "heroes" but after that?
I started my two players with two characters each, fully intending to pull no punches and have at least one die in ISoS (I warned them this would be the play style). I figured 3 PCs would be ok to get through the AP (with occasional NPC bolstering).
The first character death was shortly after they opened the front door. They insisted (despite the hungry flesh and scary noises from deeper in the fog) on trying to make a break for it through the mist rather than explore the asylum. The faceless stalker that knocked out the inquisitor and then sunk his ogre hook into the leg of the unconscious rogue, while the monk was being dragged off into the mist by a squamous tentacle (stats of a giant octopus), and the oracle was ineffectually flailing at the stalker, convinced them to run back to the asylum...
If you lose players in ISoS I'd use survivors in the chapel or elsewhere in the asylum, these could easily also be amnesiacs associated with Lowls. (Or not).
In TTT you could have a local townsperson or member of the Sleepless Agency be motivated to bring Lowls back to justice, or an agent of the Pharasmin church or Royal Accusers or servant of an academic or academic of Miskstonic University- I mean the Thingy School of Sciences, whose been sent to investigate Lowls. Or perhaps a reformed cultist whose arrived in Thrushmoor to stop Melisenn, etc.
In DotYK it could be any number of the TTT ideas above, hot on Lowls' trail, or someone they meet in the Dreamlands who is able to come back with them (perhaps they are natives of Golarion). I'm intending to allow the player who lost his rogue to the faceless stalker have a dreamlands cat character at this point - using the rules in Sandy Petersens Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder).
Haven't thought about the later books yet, but you get the idea.
How do you handle a TPK in a normal AP?
I think the extra complication here is that the 'original' PCs are special and tied into the AP story explicitly at various points. Most notably:
Association with Lowls
Oasis in DotYK
Time loop in book 6
My big question is how you run the time loop scene if you end up replacing one or more or all of the 'original' PCs due to character deaths.
I handle TPK by starting a different AP. A TPK ends the story.
In the first book, I had a death and replaced the PC with the guy being tortured in the first scene, retconing him to also being a Lowlz partner.
Beyond that, Raise Dead counters most deaths. Right now, in book 6, we have a player permanently dead who cant be raised. Player uses Winter momentarely, until they get their hands into a Wish (there is a Luckblade, which I moved from random treasure to Avaric's offering in Yellow Chap r l)
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Thread necromancy feels appropriate here...
I'm planning on keeping my original characters in the game despite their best attempts to die.
I want them coming back to life if they die, and I want them to bring a little something back with them from the other side.
I've a few ideas of how to accomplish this mechanically:
-Lowering their maximum sanity by 1 point each time
-Utilizing the d20 taint system to corrupt them
-A penalty to saves versus the powers of aberrations
Of course this could be an opportunity to grant a flash of insight to them as well to help progress the story or clue them into how to beat a soon to be encountered obstacle or whatever killed them.
Any other ideas, especially in regards to bringing something back from the other side?
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Nice angle! Will there be cost to the knowledge?
If I can swing it, I'd like it to be kind of a self-fulfilling/cursed prophecy sort of deal. Like it'll warn them about some future negative event, and if they use the information to avoid it, something else bad will happen (that might be better for Nyar, given his whole role as a mastermind of all bad events on Golarion). I'm not that killer of a GM, but I figure the more it happens the harder the final areas of the campaign will be. I'm really trying to work to make the PCs just, super paranoid all the time.
Similar to Isthill I've built in a few backup plans. Involved in some of my PCs backgrounds I wove some individuals and a Great Old One (I used Dagon instead of Nyarlathotep) that have some vested interests in the PC's sucess.
Replacing someone while in the first two campaigns however is fairly easy.
During ISOS if a PC dies, they are replaced by a PC found elsewhere in the asylum who also worked for Lowls but got seperated from the group in the chaos.
During TTT it's easy enolugh again to work in another PC who used to work for Lowls that lost his/her memory and was left in Thrushmoor instead of in the asylum.
It's after that where replacing PCs gets complicated.
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I had (I believe - they're in the obituary) 2 or 3 deaths in Thrushmoor. At this stage, the players had enough cash to pay for a raise, so this wasn't a huge issue...the bigger issue was that the closest place to get a Raise Dead is Caliphas, since there are no real clerics in Thrushmoor at the moment.
A TPK would be a very different story - in Thrushmoor, a TPK could potentially lead to some crazy shenanigans where the leader of the bad guy forces in Thrushmoor arranges for the raising of the party, for some nefarious reason or another, and perhaps the fugue state reasserting and interfering with that plan. Prior to Thrushmoor, A TPK would be more problematic. Once you hit the Dreams of the Yellow King...while in the Dreamlands, TPKs are no longer a really big issue, and seem to be the likely outcome in a couple of encounters. I don't feel that any of the Sellen River encounters are anywhere near dangerous enough to threaten a TPK.
Just had a couple near deaths to a charging voonith, which reminded me of this thread.
In addition to a small, permanent penalty, I'll be handing out a random Dark Tapestry themed powers with each forced rez: Gloom Sight, Emptiness, Planar Scent, Touch of Blindness, Shadow Claws, Searching Shadows, Umbral Weapon, Haunting Mists, Shadowform, Shadow Jaunt, Shadow Dragon Aspect, Vampiric Shadow Shield, Cloak of Shadows, Shadow Endurance, and Rift of Ruin.
The abilities are at will, but have a sanity cost. Which one each player gets will depend on what level they are when they die.
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Well, this got complicated...
Anyone care to critique/proofread/offer suggestions?
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Created some over-sized Tarot-style cards for the gifts
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If you have attempted to get to my linked file(s) above and found that you needed to ask permission, you have my apology. I was not regularly checking the e-mail address attached to the account.
I have now removed the google security update from hundreds of my shared files, so hopefully no one will have to ask permission to view them.