Summon Eidolon with no Eidolon?

[Dr Styx]

I had an odd thought...

If a Summoner created a Wondrous Item that could cast the Summon Eidolon spell. That was then used by a Rogue with the Use Magic Item skill. When the Summoner did not have his Eidolon currently summoned.

1)Would it appear?

2) Would it be under the control of the Rogue, or the Summoner (if the Sommoner was in the area)?

3) If it did, would it appear at the Rogues level, Summoners level, or the Magic Items level?

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Dr Styx wrote:

I had an odd thought...

If a Summoner created a Wondrous Item that could cast the Summon Eidolon spell. That was then used by a Rogue with the Use Magic Item skill. When the Summoner did not have his Eidolon currently summoned.

1)Would it appear?

2) Would it be under the control of the Rogue, or the Summoner (if the Sommoner was in the area)?

3) If it did, would it appear at the Rogues level, Summoners level, or the Magic Items level?

1. The spell would have absolutely no effect for the Rogue. The spell does not create an Eidolon for the caster, it brings forth one that already exists.

Since the Rogue has no eidolon there is no target for the spell.

2. and 3. See 1. above.

[QuidEst]

No need to get custom magic items approved, just consider a scroll or a wand.
1) No.
2) No, see above.
3) It doesn't.

[Gallant Armor]

There really should be a clause in the spell that says something to the effect of "This spell has no effect if the caster doesn't have the Eidolon class feature". But yeah I agree with above, it won't work.

[Cuup]

Summon Eidolon wrote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

You can't have an Eidolon without the Eidolon Class Feature. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If there was a spell called Summon Animal Companion, and it said "You summon your Animal Companion", I don't think anyone would assume they suddenly get a free animal companion.

[Gallant Armor]

Cuup wrote:

Summon Eidolon wrote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

You can't have an Eidolon without the Eidolon Class Feature. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If there was a spell called Summon Animal Companion, and it said "You summon your Animal Companion", I don't think anyone would assume they suddenly get a free animal companion.

I agree that the wording in context is clear, but I could see a case where someone new to the game without the proper context might interpret "your eidolon" as "an eidolon", and the eidolon page refers to summoner level, which again someone could misinterpret as "wizard who summon's" level. I think a clause in the spell indicating the restrictions could be helpful. I doubt it is worthy of an errata or FAQ, as I'm sure the vast majority of players are either unaware of the spell or know how it is intended to be used.

[Rysky]

Gallant Armor wrote:

Cuup wrote:

Summon Eidolon wrote:

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon.

You can't have an Eidolon without the Eidolon Class Feature. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If there was a spell called Summon Animal Companion, and it said "You summon your Animal Companion", I don't think anyone would assume they suddenly get a free animal companion.

I agree that the wording in context is clear, but I could see a case where someone new to the game without the proper context might interpret "your eidolon" as "an eidolon",

Not really, no.

[Saethori]

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you do get an eidolon if you use such a scroll or wand with UMD. Purely devil's advocate.

If you had no eidolon prior to this, that means you have zero levels in Summoner. Extrapolating upward on the table, that means you have an eidolon with zero hit dice, zero feats, and more or less nothing else.

It would be summoned with zero HP (its maximum), and as per the rules for conjuration (summoning) spells, it goes away immediately. So you still do not benefit from having an eidolon.

[SodiumTelluride]

Saethori wrote:

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you do get an eidolon if you use such a scroll or wand with UMD. Purely devil's advocate.

If you had no eidolon prior to this, that means you have zero levels in Summoner. Extrapolating upward on the table, that means you have an eidolon with zero hit dice, zero feats, and more or less nothing else.

It would be summoned with zero HP (its maximum), and as per the rules for conjuration (summoning) spells, it goes away immediately. So you still do not benefit from having an eidolon.

+1 for what is essentially a proof by contradiction.

[deuxhero]

Gallant Armor wrote:

There really should be a clause in the spell that says something to the effect of "This spell has no effect if the caster doesn't have the Eidolon class feature". But yeah I agree with above, it won't work.

It's a general rule

Quote:

If you ever try to cast a spell in conditions where the characteristics of the spell cannot be made to conform, the casting fails and the spell is wasted.

[Dr Styx]

Could you think of it this way...

When creating a Wondrous Item, you set all the parameters for the spells involved. So for the above item, it is set to call "your Eidolon". The spell in question, uses "your Eidolon" for the name of what you are calling. Instead of thinking "your Eidolon"' think of it as calling "Aztonane, the Azata Outsider".

[Gallant Armor]

Dr Styx wrote:

Could you think of it this way...

When creating a Wondrous Item, you set all the parameters for the spells involved. So for the above item, it is set to call "your Eidolon". The spell in question, uses "your Eidolon" for the name of what you are calling. Instead of thinking "your Eidolon"' think of it as calling "Aztonane, the Azata Outsider".

If a GM were lenient enough to allow this, I would use the Summon Monster lists to determine the relative strength of the Eidolon and determine costs accordingly.