I'm starting a new PFS character and I'm considering a Magus, but I'm getting a bit concerned about losing spells, On my bard and wizard I've never had to roll a concentration check, let alone cast defensively. I'm hoping to get some insight to help me figure this out.
1) I know I can decrease my to hit score to increase my concentration, but with half BAB and already taking a -2 for spell combat how much can I really decrease my to hit and still expect my attacks to hit my target?
2) Is concentration the reason people recommend shocking grasp as the major damaging spell? so I could prepare it in higher level slots with metamagic and not increase the concentration check?
3) I see a lot of people saying that combat casting isn't necessary, but it seem like you'd still have a substantial chance of losing your spells, something like 35-40% at level 5, is this just a "cost" of playing a magus?
4) Would I be better off taking wand wielder at 3rd level and casting shocking grasp for a little bit of magic damage and a free attack?
Combat casting is a great feat. Also, you should be taking advantage of your free 5 ft step as often as possible.
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It's only at early levels where concentration is a major issue.
I will say - a Magus is probably the only class which I'd ever seriously consider Combat Casting - though even then I'd probably retrain the feat later. Though if you're making a Dex Magus, you likely don't have a spare feat early on.
Also of note - there is a Trait which gives +2 to ALL Concentration checks. (While Combat Casting only gives a +4 to cast defensively.) I take it with many of my casters.
People like Shocking Grasp because it's solid damage for a low level spell and doesn't give a saving throw (and Magi tend to have a mediocre save DCs). Plus that +3 to hit against many targets is nice. Also - the damage can crit, and most Magus builds use a 18-20 crit weapon (eventually critting on 15-20).
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Also of note - there is a Trait which gives +2 to ALL Concentration checks. (While Combat Casting only gives a +4 to cast defensively.) I take it with many of my casters.
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For those interested in taking it, the trait is Focused Mind.
Combat casting is a great feat. Also, you should be taking advantage of your free 5 ft step as often as possible.
I will be using my 5 ft step, but once you hit second level, which I'll be starting at from a few 1st level runs using iconics, you lose out on that free attack from spell strike part of the time, which is why I'm trying to get a firm grasp on this.
It's only at early levels where concentration is a major issue.
I will say - a Magus is probably the only class which I'd ever seriously consider Combat Casting - though even then I'd probably retrain the feat later. Though if you're making a Dex Magus, you likely don't have a spare feat early on.
Also of note - there is a Trait which gives +2 to ALL Concentration checks. (While Combat Casting only gives a +4 to cast defensively.) I take it with many of my casters.
People like Shocking Grasp because it's solid damage for a low level spell and doesn't give a saving throw (and Magi tend to have a mediocre save DCs). Plus that +3 to hit against many targets is nice. Also - the damage can crit, and most Magus builds use a 18-20 crit weapon (eventually critting on 15-20).
I keep seeing people saying that concentration is only an issue at early levels, but it seems to still be an issue, to me, at level 5 which is almost halfway through a PFS career, at what point would you say concentration is no longer an issue?
I'm aware of the trait and will probably take it, and likely combat casting as well, I intend to build a strength magus.
Maybe I phrased my question about shacking grasp wrong, I know all of the things you've mentioned factor into it, though I expect some table variation on the +3 bonus to hit with spellstrike. I was more interested in should I be using shocking grasp nearly exclusively to keep my concentration checks low, rather than using higher level touch spells when I have access to them?
I keep seeing people saying that concentration is only an issue at early levels, but it seems to still be an issue, to me, at level 5 which is almost halfway through a PFS career, at what point would you say concentration is no longer an issue?I'm aware of the trait and will probably take it, and likely combat casting as well, I intend to build a strength magus.
Maybe I phrased my question about shacking grasp wrong, I know all of the things you've mentioned factor into it, though I expect some table variation on the +3 bonus to hit with spellstrike. I was more interested in should I be using shocking grasp nearly exclusively to keep my concentration checks low, rather than using higher level touch spells when I have access to them?
It's a little bit backwards from that, actually. The recommendation for magus to cast shocking grasp is for several reasons. It's great damage for your slot, does not allow spell resistance, sometimes gives a bonus to-hit, and comes in one of the least resisted energy types available.
The next consideration is that with metamagic, it becomes even stronger. An intensified shocking grasp scales far better than any 2nd level touch spell. An intensified shocking grasp when you take the metamagic master trait now occupies a first level slot and out-does every 2nd level spell and most 3rd level spells.
Basically, everyone recommends shocking grasp because it's quite simply the best spell available and is so strong at higher levels due to metamagic options. It's because of this that the magus is considered to have little to no problem with concentration checks. Most likely the only spell you'll be casting in a threatened square will be shocking grasp, which will be a dc 17 concentration check. The extra to-hit that shocking grasp also makes up for the lowered attack from using spell combat for a bonus to your concentration check, because the spell is most of your damage. At caster level 6 and assuming 18 Int, you're rolling up to a +14 modifier on your concentration check, which means a 90% chance to succeed at your check (succeed on 3 or more). At caster level 8, you're now rolling a +14 modifier before even giving up attack, and that goes up to an auto-success by only giving up a -2 to hit.
With you at level 5, assuming 18 int, you're rolling anywhere from +9 to +13 on your concentration checks, which ranges from 65 to 85%.
Consider this on top of the fact that if you use 5-ft steps well, you can possibly cut down on the # of concentration checks you need to make by half.
TL;DR: Shocking grasp is recommended quite simply as the best damage dealing option for several levels, and this coincidentally makes the concentration checks for the magus become trivial.
It's a little bit backwards from that, actually. The recommendation for magus to cast shocking grasp is for several reasons. It's great damage for your slot, does not allow spell resistance, sometimes gives a bonus to-hit, and comes in one of the least resisted energy types available.
Being an evocation spell, not conjuration, Shocking Grasp IS subject to spell resistance. You are correct that it does not allow for a saving throw.
At low levels it can be better for the magus to just take the AoO, especially if they have a defensive spell up already. Overall the chance of losing the spell is probably less.
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Combat casting is a great feat. Also, you should be taking advantage of your free 5 ft step as often as possible.I will be using my 5 ft step, but once you hit second level, which I'll be starting at from a few 1st level runs using iconics, you lose out on that free attack from spell strike part of the time, which is why I'm trying to get a firm grasp on this.
How exactly do you lose out on the free attack? there is nothing preventing you from casting the spell, taking a 5 foot step and taking the free attack. In fact a faq clearly states that you can.
Johnny devo, thanks, that actually put a lot of pieces in place
Gloves of Elvenkind are handy too, as are wands which don't provoke. My magus carries around a 5th level shocking grasp wand (with the arcanna of course)
How exactly do you lose out on the free attack? there is nothing preventing you from casting the spell, taking a 5 foot step and taking the free attack. In fact a faq clearly states that you can.Combat casting is a great feat. Also, you should be taking advantage of your free 5 ft step as often as possible.I will be using my 5 ft step, but once you hit second level, which I'll be starting at from a few 1st level runs using iconics, you lose out on that free attack from spell strike part of the time, which is why I'm trying to get a firm grasp on this.
If you are trying to avoid concentration and aoo completely you will wind up in a situation where you are right next to your target and have to attack then 5 ft back casting a ranged touch attack. You can't start every turn 5ft away from your target, so you'd lose every other attack, or every attack considering your target will close the distance most times
An elf with arcane focus, focused mind, an 18 INT, and combat casting can't fail on 1st level spells by 4th level, 2nd level spells by 6th level, and then he'll never fail another check again from 8th level on.
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Once you have Mirror Image, you can also just take the OA for casting, as it is likely to miss anyway. At lower levels, tactical use of your 5' step should keep you from provoking.
1) I know I can decrease my to hit score to increase my concentration, but with half BAB and already taking a -2 for spell combat how much can I really decrease my to hit and still expect my attacks to hit my target?
As you say, you should avoid doing this.
4) Would I be better off taking wand wielder at 3rd level and casting shocking grasp for a little bit of magic damage and a free attack?
You can also use any touch-attack cantrip for this.
I've noticed that no one has mentioned Chill Touch. It looks like a great bet for increasing a magus's damage output, even though she only gets the extra attack with it for the first round. As a GM, with a bladebound magus in my game, it looks fairly nasty to me...
Would I be better off taking wand wielder at 3rd level and casting shocking grasp for a little bit of magic damage and a free attack?
Actually while Wand Wielder works with spell-combat, it doesn't say it works with spellstrike. That means if you cast Shocking Grasp with your wand you can't deliver it through your weapon. And for PFS that wand of SG is going to be a level 1 wand (so it'll be 1d6 damage),whihc is likely less damage than a cantrip delivered through your weapon.
Wand wielder is better used with spells that you cast on yourself (True Strike & Vanish being the classics).
The issue with Chill Touch is that it is not Burst damage. Which is where a Magus can excel at.
A Magus using the Arcane Mark with Spell Combat trick has the potential to do more damage then with Chill Touch while using a high crit weapon.
Ooops, I was writing a long clarification even as you posted an answer! Well, the fact that I've banned using Arcane Mark with spell combat may be the crucial factor. It's just tooooo cheesy for me.
What I was going to say:
The point being, she casts it out of melee, closes for her spellstrike & normal attack, and then the next turn gets another normal attack, this time without the -2 OR followed by an additional spellstrike, admittedly at risk for AoO. Each of three attacks deals 1d6 of what genuinely is the least-resisted form of energy damage, negative, and might do 1 pt. of Strength damage. (Living creatures get no save for the 1d6, but admittedly a Fortitude save for the Strength.)
Mind you, she's done some terrifying things with Shocking Grasp, too. But that's just a one-turn advantage, and then the spell slot is used up. Given that she's 3rd level, Chill Touch's 3d6 negative over time looks at least comparable to 3d6 electrical at once. (Based on what I've seen on these boards, a fair number of creatures have resistance to electrical.) And she definitely can cast Chill Touch before she closes. Hence, no concentration check.
Maybe it's that she's so low level, and doesn't like being made of glass, so takes some defensive spells. Right now, she doesn't have many 1st-level slots. Plus, she doesn't have Spell Recall yet -- is that going to give her extra slots per day? Given her high INT, I suppose 1st-level slots will eventually start looking like water...
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The issue with Chill Touch is that it is not Burst damage. Which is where a Magus can excel at.
The Magus can excel at lots of things. Shocking grasp is merely the most well-known of these.
Chill touch is fun because it forces a saving throw per hit, and because fewer enemies are resistant to it than to shocking grasp.
Actually while Wand Wielder works with spell-combat, it doesn't say it works with spellstrike.
Spellstrike says that wands work with spellstrike. Any Magus can deliver wand-based touch attacks through his weapon; the wand wielder arcana lets you do that as part of a full attack. That said, a better wand to wield would be True Strike.
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Ooops, I was writing a long clarification even as you posted an answer! Well, the fact that I've banned using Arcane Mark with spell combat may be the crucial factor. It's just tooooo cheesy for me.
Note that a variety of other touch cantrips do the exact same thing (e.g. Brand, Touch of Fatigue, or Ray of Frost + Close Range).
Also note that plenty of classes get to make an extra attack for a -2 penalty (e.g. anyone with TWF, flurry, or rapid shot). There's nothing wrong with that.
Thanks for all the advice, I'm getting more excited about trying a magus now.