|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is what I have so far, and have the eventual goal of having diplomacy skill of at least 40 by level 20 if my character ever reaches that point.
Of note, unless I made a mistake somewhere, this is a 1st level character that has a base Diplomacy of 20. The core roleplaying idea I have for this is that she was chosen for a special purpose by her goddess because of her "gift" of being able to convince others to her way of thinking and end conflicts non-violently. With this, my eventual goal being for her to be able to end wars, unite nations and races, or redeem the irredeemable with words and her conviction of beliefs at the forefront.
My request is not only your thoughts and advice on the initial 1st level build but on how to continue forward to not only make it so that she is still a fairly decent fighter but can continue to improve to the point where she can do what I have set out for her to be capable of... that of using Diplomacy to its fullest extent and perhaps become a great and inspiring leader.
Also in how to maximize the potental of her familiar companion and in what Improved Familiar to pick for it to transform into.
------------------------
Name: Susanna
Race: Human
Racial Trait: Silver Tongued
Deity: Sarenrae
Class: Chosen One (Paladin)
Embassy Familiar: Thrush
Traits: Redeemer (Faith), Ambassador (Religion)
Feats: Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Persuasive
Str: 14, Dex: 10, Con: 15, Int: 10, Wis: 11, Cha: 18
Diplomacy Total: 20 (Rank 1 + Bonus 19)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The divine anthology has a paladin oath that replaces smite evil with bardic preference. You might want to look at.
I don't recommend putting this many resources in any one thing. I have a bard at level 12 with 23 diplomacy. It has become overkill for many levels. As it's a set target number that doesn't change much.
I will recommend you trade out you're starting Str with your Cha. As your ability to fight overall is based on Str. Cha is important to paladin's. However what happens when you are fighting something you can't smite? You lose most of the characters combat effectiveness.
You might want to consider trading one of your starting feat's for toughness. To increase the charters survivability at lower levels.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Be sure that for Racial Trait, you get Focused Study: in place of your bonus feat, you gain Skill Focus at 1st, 8th, and 16th level.
I'd save Persuasive for 3rd level: you still have a +18 Diplomacy, and can pick up Power Attack, the one feat you really need to still be effective in combat.
+2 Diplomacy (Human)
+3 Familiar
+2 Trait Bonus
+3 Feat Bonus
+1 Rank
+3 Class Skill
+4 Charisma
---------------
+18, so I think your math is correct.
You should be well over +40 at 20th level: it's almost unthinkable that'd you not pick up a magic item that'd grant a bonus to diplomacy, and you'll probably want to boost your Charisma at least once.
I'm not sure what form to pick for your Improved Familiar.
Edit BTW, what feats are you looking at to make the most use of that high Diplomacy? Call Truce? Quick Favor?
Maybe some lay on hands stuff...
You have a high cha, which is good for that. And I kind of find it does help the role of the diplomat.
When looking at paladin, I view them as a perfect diplomat/emissary for the party. Because they are a class well known of goodness and lawful behavior with a focus on cha, with strong incentive to avoid conflict by simply asking "can we talk this out"... nd they are some of the best tanks for when the answer turns out to be "no".
Basically, I view tankiness as a strong compliment to the role of diplomat. Let your allies hang back, go into stealth, and ready actions to "attack anyone taht looks at goody two shoes the wrong way". Meanwhile, you go out alone and try to use diplomacy...and you can survive a couple hits when that fails. You get to both try to talk things out and serve a tactical role as a decoy.
Basically, you are naive, but you can survive being a bit naive with heavy armor and lots of healing abilities.
A lot of diplomacy on a divine character?
Get authoritative vestments. With your silver tongued trait you have a chance at diffusing encounters since you can turn them from hostile to friendly.
Do those take a slot? It really seems like they should (probably chest) but the d20pfsrd entry doesn't mention it.
|
|
@Calagnar
So I had to do a little searching, but I found the Oath mentioned above and I very much interested. Really I actually want to add this, but it would admittedly greatly decrease my character's offensive ability giving up Smite. Hmm... maybe I could possibly consider focusing on a Support/Healing instead of Front Line/Heavy Damage role?
Hmm, though technically a Paladin's BAB is the same of the Fighter so I can still see her being fairly offensive just with less feats. Her other class abilities I feel make of for this personally, and I am willing to give up
I will be honest, I would not want her strength any higher then 15 at 1st level since I've considered for her backstory that she is a young woman of age 16 to 17 who did not truly start her combat training until after meeting her familiar. As she levels up, her strength and combat ability can more be readily focused on.
Yet if I must, if such a concept could get her killed too soon, I can change the concept for her to be more capable in combat.
@Anonymous Warrior
Thanks, updated. What other feats are there involving Diplomacy that could benefit the build? I am definitely willing to consider Call Truce and Quick Favor.
@Lemeres
Thanks, updated and have me ideas to considered.
@Omnitricks
Thanks, had to get a drawback to do it but I added your suggestion.
---------------------------
Updated Information
Name: Susanna
Race: Human
Racial Trait: Silver Tongued, Focused Study
Deity: Sarenrae
Class: Oathbound* Chosen One (Paladin)
*Oath of the People's Council
Embassy Familiar: Thrush
Drawback: Attached
Traits: Redeemer (Faith), Ambassador (Religion), Rich Parents (Social)
Feats: Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Toughness
Equipment: Authoritative Vestments
Str: 14, Dex: 10, Con: 16, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Cha: 18
Dot.
|
|
A Dex based Paladin build was actually something I was strongly leaning towards, but I wasn't certain how I should go about such. That, and there is those who have issue with the Dexterity being used for combat as they feel it invalidates Strength. Also if I were to go that route I would just take a one level dip in Inspired Blade.
|
|
... Maybe. I would need the right archetype, as default rogue would not I feel be an appropriate multiclass for a Paladin.
I admit that a 3 level dip may be more then I prefer, that and I am the sort of player that needs to justify such a multiclass In Character.
Actually I think I'll consider a reflavored Consigliere archetype as let's say a trusted mediator and adviser of city/town guard and law enforcement instead of crime families and criminal organizations... All of which nets with weapon finesse, and dex to damage but not evasion. Instead I gets Persuasive for free and, going Unchained Rogue, the certainty [Diplomacy] rogue talent.
Biggest issue is that sneak attack is completely useless or at least unusable for a Paladin so an archetype that switches that out would be preferred. Maybe a True Professional (UnRogue).
Plus as an unchained rogue you can get the Diplomacy skill unlock, which is quite nice. A paladin could get it with Signature Skill if your GM allows that feat, but paladins are feat-starved.
|
|
Though there would be benefits doing so, can't really see dipping Rogue working with my character as long as the class offers sneak attack as a class feature.
That is not unless the DM I have might allow me to dip an Unchained Consigliere... with that of the True Professional*... Which I believe could be stack without any or too much issue. This would also allow a couple extra feats.
Would a dex paladin be that good? I have mostly thought of it as 'a way to do a TWF paladin for smiting'.
Paladins just have less incentives to do dex than most. They already add cha to reflex, and you have that high. And dex AC when compared to heavy armor is.... meh. Light+dex is technically a bit worse unless you have a +10 dex mod (so rather high levels).
The only immediately important thing dex gives you is initiative... and for the resources spent, you could just grab improved initiative.
Just grabbing something big and 2 handed and going with heavy armor seems like less resources overall.
|
|
Hmm... to take this in a different direction, perhaps I could build her as something of an Oradin and following a path of lesser resistance? Going with build that feels more natural to the character concept.
Considering my resistance to having her start with a Strength greater than 15 given her concept, possibly switching to Dexterity, and with a Charisma of 18 having taken interest in the Oath of the People's Counsel to gain the equivalent of Bardic Performances instead of Spite. This and the fact that she has a Embassy Familiar instead of a Divine Bond which can offer the means of her providing Lay of Hands at a distance with other more supportive benefits. Finally, the focus on Diplomacy which can allow for conflict to be resolved without violence.
Really, the way I look at it Dexterity based Paladin could very well make more sense than Strength... either that or simply wait to increase her combat ability by playing less of a Frontline role then what is expected, at least at first. Have her perhaps grow into a strong combative, or perhaps try a different path then common.
|
|
Name: Susanna the Diplomatic
----------------------------
Size: Medium
Age: 16 to 17
Height: 4' 10"
Weight: 125 lb
Eyes: Hazel
Hair: White* Wavy
Skin: Tan
Race: Human
Racial Traits: Silver Tongued, Focused Study
Deity: Sarenrae
Drawback: Attached
Class: Oathbound* Chosen One (Paladin)
*Oath of the People's Council
Embassy Familiar: Thrush
Traits: Altruistic Diplomat (Regional), Patient Optimist (Religion), Redeemer (Faith)
Feats: Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Toughness
* Relates to the regional trait in how it is for the nation of Hwanggot. I’m looking it up I read following, from a link involving human ethnicity Tian, “Occasionally, Tian are born with pure white hair, which is viewed as a sign of greatness.” Yet I have been second-guessing making use of this detail as part of me is considering that she doesn’t have any outward signs that point to her having a destiny of greatness, apart from what her embassy familiar has told her.
Also I’m still struggling to make the final decision of what I want her ability scores to be. Whether or not I actually want to relent and gave her stronger offensive capability. The concept as is changes her to being more of a Frontline Supporter at best and given what I have worked out in my head she won't be as combat focused as is normally expected or demanded from a Paladin... At least she won’t be at first. That, and the fact that in concept she's still a fairly young character that only recently started her training as a Paladin under the instruction of her embassy familiar... so I don't want her strength to be too high starting out.
Because of this the consideration was made for her be a DEX Build, yet there is a slight issue that I don’t want to deviate too many levels outside the main class. Inspired Blade could work out with only a single level deviation and focus combat on using rapier. Yet the suggestion was made for dipping into the Rogue for 3 levels despite the fact that this is the one class that seems to clash the most conceptionally… especially sneak attack. That and that is the roleplay consideration of how she learns the skills of a rogue without at least some refluffing.
Sighs, all in all though I may be overthinking things. ^^;
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You make a fair point, I will discuss it with my DM whenever I’m able to join a campaign but for now I think I’ll go with strength as it is least complex. That, and there is this line “Tian-Hwan people have strong ideas about gender roles, although these differ from many other cultures: large percentages of Tian-Hwan women are soldiers and scholars, while men more commonly are farmers, craftsmen, or artists”.
After much thought and consideration I have finally decided on my ability scores for Susanna, as well as decided on what I’ll be increasing at each level I’m able to do so. In this case the order of an ability increase will be Strength, Wisdom, and then Charisma. This may change when I discuss a Dex build my DM for my character as an alternative.
Str: 15 Dex: 10 Con: 16 Int: 12 Wis: 9 Cha: 17
The idea being that she learns how to better protect and defend, fight for what is just and good. As she faces the many challenges that may come before her, she will grow in strength and wisdom, as well find herself becoming even more confident and self assured in her beliefs so her Charisma shines brightly.
I’m open for any suggestions on how to advance forward after first level, particular when it comes to feats and when to take which one at each level.
----------------
Of note, a small detail, is that someone pointed out to me that the way The Chosen One archetype and the Oath of the People’s Counsel are worded I cannot legally use them together by RAW… but since the detail in question is simply the Chosen One delaying Smite Evil until 2nd level and gains her second use at 4th level… with the fact that the ability Stirring Monologue replaces it completely I can see if my DM is willing to allow me to combine the two if I simply delay when I receive Stirring Monologue until 2nd or 4th level. Which I believe would be fair and reasonable.
|
|
Sighs, just found that I can't take Patient Optimist as it has the requirement the character must worship Erastil.
... As such I will be replacing that trait with Blade of Mercy, which can be helpful in combat by allowing my character to deal non-lethal damage without penalty as well +1 bonus to non-lethal damage when using a slashing weapon.
Lastly, I need to change her name.
|
Major Update:
So for some background information which will explain certain details of this build:
This is for a 6th level Kingmaker campaign, Non-Pathfinder Society, 15 point buy, three traits, and 8,000 gp to spend. The Dungeon Master agreed to let me combine Oath of the People’s Council and Chosen One because by 6th level there is no discernible difference when it comes to the progression of Stirring Monologue compared to Smite at 6th level and onward between the two.
I give you Kyra the Diplomat.
|
|
Does it have to be Sarenrae?
Deific Obedience for Iomedae gives you +4 to Diplomacy.
Hmm, that does sound nice. Especially since I could then add in another 4 ranks to max out Diplomacy... but I have for quite some time been toying with the idea of one highly proficient Diplomacy yet with the focus of redeeming others, particularly redeeming those who most would call irredeemable.
Iomedae is more the straight-lace paladin who'd smite the wicked and evil not try redeem them. More, given how I have given us so much combat ability by replacing smite and having only a single combat feat. Well, I don't think the Goddess of Paladin would see Kyra as one of her favored, especially if Kyra tries anything like redeeming those she feel deserves to die and be taken down.
Sarenrae is the Goddess of Redemption, and while yes she too does have a combative aspect it is to a lesser degree I feel. Especially because of a certain act she did in anger which she regrets. No, I feel out of all the deities she would most likely see a mortal highly skilled in Diplomacy who could in time redeem even the most innately wick or evil as of merit and use.
Sighs, yet that is simply my interpretation of the two. I was going discuss the details with my Dungeon Master and see what he is okay with. Technically I haven't even discussed with him on what or who he would consider redeemable nor confirmed with the other players if they would be okay with such a concept. It would be three days of working on this between my calls at work to complete the character sheet.
Could you elaborate a little on your concept? Nothing in the Chosen One archetype actually seems to fit with your goal or what you described. Is your goal divine powered party face? Because that could be done very well by an Oracle or an Inquisitor. (With the right archetypes or inquisitions, the Inquisitor can get wisdom to face skills.) The Conversion Inquisition also gives you a once per day Dominate Person effect which lasts a minute. This strikes me as a great way to end conflicts non-violently where normal words fail.
ou talk about wanting to be less combat oriented and more focused on a skill, but you're a full BAB class with very limited spellcasting and few skills per level.
Having a high diplomacy score is nice, but to really rock that role you want other skills too, like bluff, sense motive, maybe some relevant knowledge skills. Paladin also lack some key spells like Tongues that are clutch for a diplomat, and will get less casts of things like Honeyed Tongue and Zone of Truth.
If you are really dedicated to being a Pally, you could consider the Enlightened Paladin. It adds CHA to it's max dex bonus for AC, which could enable you to go for a less armor, higher dex route. It also has unarmed features, which works well for A) non-lethal damage and B) not needing to carry a weapon into negotiations. Maybe consider a dip in Unchained Monk (Scaled Fist) in that case. Double check if your DM will allow you to get CHA to AC twice. But even with that, flurry is a pretty great boon.
|
|
The reason why the Chosen One archetype is important to my concept is because I wanted to play a Paladin chosen by their deity, with a servant of this deity guiding and preparing them for their destiny and purpose, of which will make use of their gift for diplomacy.
Also, Oracles don't get familiars, even if they are often "chosen" by their deities. More, I wanted to play a Paladin with a redemption focus. One who does not Smite his foes but instead seeks to dissuaded from their course and embolden their allies. I may take a couple of levels later on to make an Oradin, though such would come later.
I have decided on the concept of a Chosen One "Diplomancer", I ask that you and others help me optimize this idea and don't try to suggest other classes. a Chosen One pally is what I want to play.
One thing that should be noted, for Kingmaker campaign, my character knows the majority of languages that would be necessary for such a campaign and she'll be able to communicate with at least 90% of those that she and the party is likely to meet.
Tongues isn't necessary, especially with the alternate racial trait I picked for humans. It won't take her long to be able to learn all the known languages.
-----------
I plan on Kyra taking the role of Grand Diplomat in the Kingmaker campaign.
Is playing an oracle out of the question? because you have an oracle's stat array and if you're willing to be CG you can do the old Desna's shooting star divine combat style and swap Int with Str for so more skills since so many will be sank into diplomacy.
|
|
Sighs, maybe for another campaign. I have just make my character's first post and her having the emissary familiar is in this case an unwavering required aspect of her character.
Again, I ask, does anyone know of a way for an oracle to gain a familiar? If so, I would be more willing to consider the change. I want her to have a familiar, an emissary familiar, and unless I pick a class that offers such I can't see any more appropriate choice despite its weaknesses given how few skills and spells paladins are able to gain.
It really is as simple as answering this question. Is there any offical ways of giving an oracle a familiar, at level, where I can give it the emissary archetype? More, later then take the Improved Familiar feat. If the answer is yes, sure I would be more then happy to switch classes and go with an oracle... though I may still have her lawful good and play her much like a paladin in outlook and morals.
Oracle's can of course take Eldritch Heritage-Arcane to gain a familiar. I did it for my oracle in Skull and Shackles. Or A Spirit Guide Oracle whose spirit is a "visitor from Serenrae".
Also, if you are still thinking of Dex primary for combat, a one level dip into Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) gives you dex to attack and damage with scimitar, while also being a Serenrae archetype.
This gives you some baseline bard abilities, including a limited amount of battledance (+2 hit/Damage and a few saves to you only), wider class skill list, more skills at level 1 and a few others.
Flagbearer as a feat is a constant "bless" effect that's also a bit of inspire courage (bard or no bard). It also has the RP of a diplomat inspiring others through the authority of a benevolent kingdom.
Strength of the Sun as a Serenrae religion trait gives you a +1 trait bonus to ALL CHA based checks during the day time. This is probably more useful than a +1 or even a +2 trait bonus to "just" diplomacy.