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LucyG92 |
My husband and I are at a disagreement about how clerics get their powers. I was always under the belief that clerics had to undergo some sort of studying like a wizard to learn to use divine magic from their chosen god - so they're normal people who learn to use divine power, as opposed to (as my husband says) being special individuals who the gods choose to grant power to. But I thought that was what oracles were for.
So which of us is right?
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Klorox |
![Half-Orc](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9226-HalfOrc.jpg)
bit of both? they get training indeed, but must have faith and win the approval of the concerned deity (easy to get, there are some bad apples that eventually fall from the cart) before they can use those awesome power. note though that the days when a cleric had to commune with high level servants, or even with the deity itself to get powerful spells are gone, most of the juice comes from the training and experience, but a cleric who strays too far from the straight and narrow willl fall and lose their powers, barring a suitable Atonement or change of deity and induction in the new deity's clergy (essentially the same as Atoning, as proof of devotion will be demanded)
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Bill Dunn |
![Mynafee Gorse](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Paizo-W2-Mynafee-Gorse-HRF.jpg)
As far as the game system is concerned, it's immaterial. This is a question for the GM and how he or she wants religious PCs to work. Maybe the campaign's religions involve initiates learning and mastering the secrets and rituals of the church or maybe faith is enough to call upon at least some miracles. Either can work with the rules. The question is how does the GM want them to feel within the campaign.
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lemeres |
![Dead bird](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/Horrors-birdie.jpg)
Clerics are trained. I suppose the logic is that they are taught how to open up themselves to a connection with their god, and then they turn themselves into vessels for their god's powers.
When gods just up and decide to put power into people without a connection or trained to be a vessel, then they basically shove it into the poor person's head and don't care about the bits that get broken in the process.
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00iCon |
![Truthseeker Wayfinder](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO9435-Wayfinder3_90.jpeg)
In the Nightglass tale, Kuthite clerics are shown to study, perform rituals and torture (iirc, or maybe be tortured). That process forms both arcane and divine casters as the protagonist becomes a wizard and others become clerics or multi-classed. That seems to agree with everyone saying you need both study and faith in the Golarion setting.
You could also look to real-world religions as the original inspiration for the class. Some require study, others rituals, and others still just faith. It's up to the setting and GM in the end.
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Kazaan |
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Clerics are trained, but they also need divine mojo. That's why they are in the third starting age category, along with wizards, monks, etc. So it takes study, faith, and understanding to know how, but they also need a source for that mojo. Paladins are self-taught; they figure out for themselves how to be a conduit for divine mojo. It takes practice and, probably, a bigger dose of mojo to make up for the lack of formal training and certification. That's why they have such a strict code; to handle all the extra mojo. Oracles are intuitive; they get the mojo forcibly crammed into them with absolutely no training or preparation (or even consent in nearly all cases). That's why they have a curse to go along with it.
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Bandw2 |
![White Dragon](http://cdn.paizo.com/image/avatar/PZO1126-WhiteDragon_500.jpeg)
Intelligence isn't their casting stat, they gain their powers regardless of how well they are at studying. They also can be found in cultures that do not have strict teaching regimes and someone can become a cleric without specific teachings, they simply have to believe very strictly in their gods words and teachings. their trained age, might as much be about gods not willing to give powers to younger individuals, who are still trying to figure out what alignment they really are.
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Sir Jerden |
Intelligence isn't their casting stat, they gain their powers regardless of how well they are at studying. They also can be found in cultures that do not have strict teaching regimes and someone can become a cleric without specific teachings, they simply have to believe very strictly in their gods words and teachings. their trained age, might as much be about gods not willing to give powers to younger individuals, who are still trying to figure out what alignment they really are.
However, wisdom, not charisma, is their casting stat. For me, that implies some sort of deeper understanding of their own power than a charisma based character, who relies on sheer force of faith or personality.
I think that clerics have to spend a long time studying holy texts, or meditating on their gods teachings, or preaching to followers, before they understand their god enough to use divine magic.
However, all the game really tells us is that wisdom is "willpower, common sense, awareness, and intuition." So maybe anyone who's spent a lot of time thinking deeply about the world can become a cleric. All it takes is a bit of worldly experience - and so the learned starting age.
It depends on the player and what they want their cleric to be.