So, looking into making a Slayer (sniper) but I am not sure I understand one aspect of the Sniper archetype. Also, I think this may explain the debate of why Deadly Sniper does not require a loss of talent.
The Deadly Sniper ability says
Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon's first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper's presence.
Most of that is simple, and very cool, but the last line is what is throwing me. Does this mean that you cannot make a SNIPING attempt as described under the Stealth skill? Or is this to mean any additional attacks that round do not get sneak attack damage?
I am hoping it is the latter of the two. Opinions, please.
The Deadly Sniper ability says
Deadly Sniper (Ex): At 2nd level, when the sniper makes an attack against a target who is within his weapon's first range increment and completely unaware of his presence, that attack ignores the 30 foot range limit on ranged sneak attacks, and if it is a sneak attack, he adds his sniper level as a bonus on his sneak attack damage roll. After this first attack, the target is aware of the sniper's presence.
The target is aware of your presence, but it never says it's aware of your location. That line is mostly there to keep you from getting the benefits on a full attack action. Note that the Stealth skill never says anything about "presence" being a factor. The target of a snipe always realizes they were targeted, even if the attack misses. They know there is a sniper "present".
It means you only get to use the Deadly Sniper ability on the first attack. For Deadly Sniper to work, the target has to be completely unaware of your presence. After you make your first attack, the target is aware of your presence.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't combine this with the Sniping option of the Stealth skill. But all that does is prevent the target from knowing your exact location; that you are present somewhere is still known.
EDIT: Ninjas! Ninjas everywhere!
Thanks for the response and advice.
And Deadly Sniper is almost certainly supposed to take the place of a talent, but it isn't currently written that way. So, enjoy it while it lasts, but don't be surprised when it gets errata in a few years.
Ok, since this thread is about rules questions for Deadly Sniper, I have one (maybe it's clearly obvious to everyone else, but it's puzzling me).
Deadly Sniper is gained at 2nd Level, and gives a range bonus and damage bonus to a specific use of Sneak Attack (as described in the first post).
However...Slayers don't get Sneak Attack until 3rd. I suppose this is applicable to dualclassed Rogues/Slayers. But otherwise, why give a Sniper a benefit that they can't use (yet)? The commentators above mention this should perhaps have been a replacement for the Talent chosen at 2nd. But why then? Why not replace the talent at 4th? Or if it's not a replacement for a talent, why not award this at 3rd?
Does this mean that a Sniper gets a limited use of Sneak Attack? Meaning, once the whole party is in combat, the Sniper can't flank an enemy and get a Sneak Attack that he normally would at 3rd. However, if he can get that first shot off before the enemies are aware of his presence, that one attack does get the Sneak Attack (and Deadly Sniper) benefit.
I admit that's it's strange, but the ability normally doesn't actually do anything till level 3. The exception would be if you already had sneak attack dice from another class. The sniper isn't unique in this setup though. The bounty hunter archetype also gets a sneak attack based ability before it normally has access to sneak attack.
Ok, since this thread is about rules questions for Deadly Sniper, I have one (maybe it's clearly obvious to everyone else, but it's puzzling me).
Deadly Sniper is gained at 2nd Level, and gives a range bonus and damage bonus to a specific use of Sneak Attack (as described in the first post).
However...Slayers don't get Sneak Attack until 3rd. I suppose this is applicable to dualclassed Rogues/Slayers. But otherwise, why give a Sniper a benefit that they can't use (yet)? The commentators above mention this should perhaps have been a replacement for the Talent chosen at 2nd. But why then? Why not replace the talent at 4th? Or if it's not a replacement for a talent, why not award this at 3rd?
Does this mean that a Sniper gets a limited use of Sneak Attack? Meaning, once the whole party is in combat, the Sniper can't flank an enemy and get a Sneak Attack that he normally would at 3rd. However, if he can get that first shot off before the enemies are aware of his presence, that one attack does get the Sneak Attack (and Deadly Sniper) benefit.
The deadly sniper is just a two-fold add-on to sneak attacks in a specific situation.
So if the enemy is not aware of YOU (so if your mates gone and charged in while you're in the shadows you can still use this) your next attack on them within the first range increment counts as a sneak attack AND adds your level as damage. (So at lvl 2 you get 2 bonus damage on a unawares enemy)
After that you sneak attack as normal
So if there's more than one enemy, and I snipe one. He survives, knows I'm there but I pass my stealth check so he doesn't know where I am.
Can I still use deadly sniper on the other guy?