I'm curious about this. Two girls in my gaming group were discussing it a couple weeks back. One happily self-identified as a Gamer Girl, while the other said she was just a "girl who games"—but clarified that this was because she didn't believe she gamed enough to be considered a "true gamer", not because she had any particular antipathy to the identifier.
I'm mainly interested in what women on the forums think of the term, of course. Do you use it? And do you like the label, or dislike it?
Yeah, "gamer girl" sometimes sounds divisive. It irks me when someone posts a video of a girl or woman shredding a guitar on FB and they label it "Female guitarist tears up song" or whatever. I listen to a lot of metal bands that are either all woman or fronted by a woman, but I just call them metal, not "female fronted" or whatever.
Incidentally, Terquem is older than I am by 15 days.
Honestly haven't ever given it much thought. I personally don't mind either 'gamer' or 'gamer girl' though I can see why other women would prefer 'gamer' or no label at all. Thinking about it though, I usually just describe myself as a gamer so there's that.
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I dislike it and I would never use it to describe myself when meeting someone.
First of all, it's a diminutive (girl/boy) that isn't applicable once the person becomes an adult. It's also a cultural put down: we call women 'girls' even when they are elderly, which diminishes their standing in any conversation. If you call me a 'girl', I'm going to have serious doubts about your ability to deal with me as a person instead of a caricature.
Also, while some people use questionable descriptors self-referentially, that doesn't mean it's a good idea for other people to use them.
I do sometimes use it within a group of women with a lot of computer/technical/engineering backgrounds, or gaming/fan cons. In that case, it's a shorthand for my long-term interest and personal involvement, but again, I wouldn't use it in a mixed-gender group.
The other place I've used it has been in f2f games when we're adding a new player and are going around introducing ourselves. In that case I use it exclusively in the phrase "I've been a Gamer Girl since my teens", which is meant to emphasize the importance of this hobby in my life. Almost everyone recognizes that being a woman who games intensely means that I've put up with a lot of opposition in order to do so, and that I've dealt with a lot of abuse over the years for daring to do so.
However, my Samoan relatives used to call me Davy Boy, when I was young
My brother didn't lose that suffix until after he had a family (in Hawaii)
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You know I actually had someone get upset with me because when asked about I specific persons gender I referred to her as a girl instead of a woman. It's always weird for me with most of these kinds of topics because I've always had the opinion of, "call me whatever you want", boy, guy, man, a grilled cheese sandwich. I guess I don't put "that" much thought into my words as others seem to assume. If I refer to someone as a "Gamer Girl" that is simply because I wished to explain that she is a girl who also plays games in the fewest combination of possible words.
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If I refer to someone as a "Gamer Girl" that is simply because I wished to explain that she is a girl who also plays games in the fewest combination of possible words.
And the fact that someone was upset by that has not changed your behavior?
Perhaps you could afford the few microseconds it takes to use descriptions that aren't offensive. Or even just call her a Gamer. That's even fewer words.
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I'm personally a big fan of using their names, rather than labels. :-)
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I generally dislike the use of diminutives in this context, personally. And lack an understanding of how 'gamer' is not acceptable as a unisex term.
You know I actually had someone get upset with me because when asked about I specific persons gender I referred to her as a girl instead of a woman. It's always weird for me with most of these kinds of topics because I've always had the opinion of, "call me whatever you want", boy, guy, man, a grilled cheese sandwich. I guess I don't put "that" much thought into my words as others seem to assume.
I think the fact that you don't think about it at all is exactly what most people assume results in that attitude. And, really, most of the problem. It's not that you're being intentionally offensive, it's that the attitude, by both you and society, that such terminology is acceptable is kind of a problem and is related to some bad attitudes.
Would you call a fully adult man a 'boy' or 'gamer boy'? No? Then consider carefully why you think calling a fully grown woman a 'girl' is acceptable. And why others might find it troublesome.
To be clear, I don't use this label to describe people. Up until last week, I'd never met anyone who could stand it. To me, it seems patronizing—like only a special kind of girl games, or only a special kind of gamer is a girl. But it's not really my place to judge the label one way or the other. As such, I'm mostly curious about people who choose to self-identify with the label, or choose not to. So though I do appreciate the insight from those who've elaborated on how they refer to other gamers, I'm mostly interested in the "self-referential" terminology CrystalSeas alluded to. :P
Though she's also a gamer, my wife has generally been proud of her self-declared "geekgirl" identity. And she's 47 and was over 30 when she took that identifying label on. So as far as "-girl" or "-boy" being a putdown, a person's mileage may vary.
Eh? I suppose the term irks me a bit, if only because it sets me apart from my friends. I enjoy gaming as much as anyone else at my table, and don't think it's necessary that someone would feel the need to watch their language around me or alter their speech because I lack an appendage between my legs. It's a bit... saddening, I suppose.
Honestly, I find "Gamer" itself to be a strange identifying label.I'm escalating my stance. The term "gamer" is frankly embarrassing for all involved.
Why? I play games and have been an avid game hobbyist for 35 years. Why shouldn't I be proud to wear the term "gamer"?
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The term 'gamer' is almost always used to refer to video gamers where I am. The video gamers where I am are generally loud and annoying. I therefore try to avoid using the word 'gamer' and any accompanying words to describe anyone I respect. As a rule of thumb, anyone who can sit at a table for a few hours and play games of pure fantasy and act civilly for the duration are deserving of respect.
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Why? I play games and have been an avid game hobbyist for 35 years. Why shouldn't I be proud to wear the term "gamer"?Honestly, I find "Gamer" itself to be a strange identifying label.I'm escalating my stance. The term "gamer" is frankly embarrassing for all involved.
Yeah...I don't usually bother to label that kind of thing, but it's a reasonable self-identifier. A lot of people use similar terms for other hobbies they may participate in ('hunter' and 'fisherman' leap immediately to mind).
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Like "male nurse", it's a term that shows how strongly gender expectations have become entwined with certain roles.
I look forward to a day when gender won't be used to define or limit people, but I don't think I'll live that long.
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Like "male nurse", it's a term that shows how strongly gender expectations have become entwined with certain roles.
I look forward to a day when gender won't be used to define or limit people, but I don't think I'll live that long.
I mean it is natural for our brains to form natural conclusions. To worry that me specifying that my friend is a girl simply other than just referring to her as a friend. We have preset concepts formed by logical conclusions, specifying to avoid confusion and unnecessary conversation is only reasonable. We say, male nurse because we are assuming the nurse is female. Once we no longer have an assumed gender, then when necessary to specify gender, we will again say male or female nurse.
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I talked with about 40+ female gamers for my thesis and none of them seemed very fond of the term. Most of them just wanted to be seen like any other gamer.
Interestingly, some of the sociological literature used the term gamer girl. I thought that was strange, considering how the women and gender studies field is quick to point out the problematic implications of "girl". Then again, even in Sociology that field's perspectives tend to get marginalized.
So its the term Girl when addressing a woman that seems to be the issue so would gamer woman work? admittedly doesn't flow off tongue as easily maybe its cause gamer girl both start with G like how Wonder Woman is two W's
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So its the term Girl when addressing a woman that seems to be the issue
That isn't the issue.
The issue is having to include someone's gender identity in the discussion of their gaming activities. Since having a gender identity has nothing to do with being a gamer, it's probably better not to bring it into the conversation at all.
Sounds like an interesting thesis.I talked with about 40+ female gamers for my thesis and none of them seemed very fond of the term. Most of them just wanted to be seen like any other gamer.
Definitely more fun than poring over NIBRS or the UCR. At least for me.
Ah I see so its more so Like the male nurse mentioned above. things like policewoman firewoman (interesting my spell check catchs firewoman but not fireman but policewoman is fine.)
Hmm I would think some people would get upset about it and others might not care. I would say the best thing would be if someone said it with no intent of insult to explain to them why you don't like it and not to address you in that fashion again.
I don't think Its feasible to be aware of everyone in the worlds "trigger words" But if your intent is not to offend I think the person your offending should try to remember that and then tell you they don't like it in a reasonable manner.
One thing I've heard is that any general term like that 10 years later turns into a derogatory term. funny how nerd went the other direction but nerds made it their own, some people might still get offended by it who knows.
I would hope in another oh 20 years maybe we might root out our gender biased vocabulary (I wonder how that would work for the romantic languages <.< ) one can hope anyways.
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The point of avoiding insulting or unfortunate terminology of this sort, to me, is less worrying about never offending anyone (though avoiding such offense is good) and more about a simple fact:
What we say shapes what we believe every bit as much as what we believe shapes what we say. The words we use matter and have a very real way of shaping our beliefs on a variety of issues in a variety of subtle ways.
Which means that, for most people, if they use diminutives to refer to one gender but not the other they will actually be more inclined to view that gender as less capable and more infantile. And if you use terms like 'male nurse' you will likewise wind up inherently thinking of female as the default gender of nurses, and thus reinforcing that particular stereotype in your own head. Not necessarily in any overt, obvious, way...more those little habits of thought that sneak up on you and you never even think about, but shape your behavior nonetheless. And they reinforce the same in everyone you interact with who respects or listens to you.
I don't want to think of almost any profession as inherently gendered, nor do I want to even come close to thinking of women as less mature or capable. And I especially don't want to reinforce either of those thought patterns in anyone else. So I don't use terms that reinforce those thought patterns. The fact that this also avoids offending people is a nice side benefit, but not actually the point. At least for me.
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Perhaps we should start using the term "gamer boy" if its important that we include the gender when referencing someone who enjoys role playing games.
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I think it would be "gamer guy" to keep the alliteration that goes with "gamer girl."
"Gamer man" and "gamer woman" wouldn't roll off the tongue and sound like two very dorky superheroes.
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I used boy because some females don't like being referred to as girls, as they feel it is immature or deeming. Boys and men are not likely to be offended by "guys" that's why I didn't use it.
Personally it's all the same to me.
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"Gamer boy" could work as I'm not aware of "skater boys" being bothered by the diminutive - though they often spell it with a z (boyz) in the plural.
I can't remember if the Bad Boys/z movies with Will Smith and Martin Lawrence used an "s" or a "z".
As "Gamer Man", my superpower would be the ability to properly execute the rules for grappling including creatures with the Grab special attack.
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I'd never use the term to identify a woman as a "gamer girl" However, I do know a few who like the term and wear it like a badge of honor. In that case, I would use it only because they own it. For them it points out how they are women playing in a traditionally boy's sandbox. I don't mind that aspect as much as the youth factor. For these women being referred to as a girl denotes their youth and actually take offense to being called "Mam" by strangers. There seems to be something inherently rebellious and cool about the term for these friends of mine.
Also, in my experience, the term "gamer" to most people means video gamer, so I try to avoid using the term anyways. I've used it once or twice for myself when meeting folks then they dive into the latest vids, which i'm nearly in complete ignorance of.
I have never heard the term "gamer girl" used as anything other than a self-identifier, so I'm not seeing where the derogatory bit comes in. It's disliked because it's seen, rightly or not, as either a cry for attention from someone who's "not a real gamer", or because the term is applied to someone who doesn't want it.
The latter does not make the term itself derogatory, just misapplied.
The term 'gamer' is almost always used to refer to video gamers where I am. The video gamers where I am are generally loud and annoying. I therefore try to avoid using the word 'gamer' and any accompanying words to describe anyone I respect. As a rule of thumb, anyone who can sit at a table for a few hours and play games of pure fantasy and act civilly for the duration are deserving of respect.
The weird sense of superiority displayed by some people in this hobby is the more annoying thing, to me. Playing RPGs is no more worthy of respect than playing video games, or knitting, or playing basketball, or any other hobby. It's something you do in your spare time. Say what you will about gamers being "loud and annoying", at least those sounds are the sounds of someone having fun rather than the deafening slap of your hand on your own back.
The latter does not make the term itself derogatory, just misapplied.
The 'former' is about as derogatory as it gets.
So the main meaning is derogatory, but when it's applied to someone who doesn't want it, it's "just misapplied"?
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The latter does not make the term itself derogatory, just misapplied.The 'former' is about as derogatory as it gets.
So the main meaning is derogatory, but when it's applied to someone who doesn't want it, it's "just misapplied"?
I'm confused by how a self-label that is often INTERPRETED AS something else is, in itself, derogatory.
It's the same as the nerd/geek/whatever split.
Some people self-identify as a nerd. They do not see the term as an insult, because it's what they think of themselves as, and in their eyes it is a good thing.
Others do not. Call someone in this group "nerd" is going to insult them.
That does not make the term itself insulting. The offense comes from the fact that the person does not identify as it, and sees it as derogatory because it lumps them into a group they have no desire to be a part of. In essence, it is insulting because they see it as a bad term (or at least an incorrect one) and do not want it applied to them.
If you want a more politically charged example the (as far as I know, heavily waning thankfully) trend of insulting people by calling them gay/homo/queer/whatever. Some people take offense to that, because it is meant as an insult, and does not apply to them regardless. And some take extra offense because, to them, being gay is a bad thing and it's a grievous insult to be "accused" of such.
Does this make the term "gay", even when self-applied, a derogatory term?
Or is it just insulting to be called something you don't want to be called?
You thinking something is insulting can be correct as it applies to you, in the context it's in...but it does not make that combination of words derogatory in every context.
I could crank out examples of this pretty much all day, if you need more.