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So I got my Tiefling boon, and for it, I was considering making a fighter that is obsessed with wielding the largest weapon he can find.
Starts off with 1-3 levels of Titan Fighter (1 just to get the ability to wield a large 2 handed weapon, 2 for the bonus feat, 3 for the 1 point reduction in attack penalties)
Takes at least 8 levels of primal companion hunter next, with one level of living monolith for my 6th character level (to be able to enlarge). After my pet dies, I'd enter a period of indefinite mourning for it, not replacing it and gaining access to the evolutions for myself. At 8th level, I'll be able to evolve myself to large for 8 minutes a day. With the swift enlarge from Living Monolith, I'll go huge.
Equipment wise, I'm going to need a Large 2hander for when I'm not eidolon size increasing, and a huge 2hander for when I am. (Yes, I know huge weapons aren't always available, so I'll need the fame. I'm not going to need this till 8th level, I'll be able to afford at least a +1 enhancement on the huge weapon) I'm thinking either a great sword or an earth breaker as a primary. Eventually, I'd like to have both just for DR purposes, but as a primary, I'm trying to decide between the higher crit mod, or the higher crit chance. Either way, they are both going to have the impact magic special ability to treat the weapon as a size category bigger.
So the way combat against a BBEG looks is: Round One: Buffs! Double Enlarge (YAY, I'm HUGE now!) Lead Blades. Round 2: Charge! So, starting off with the 2d6 for a medium sized Greatsword: 3d6 Large, 4d6 Huge, 6d6 Gargantuan (because the enlarge also enlarges my equipment) 8d6 Lead blades 12d6 Impact. My STR is +10 from both the enlarges (+2 from enlarge, +8 from evolution).
The advice I'm seeking: Are there any other damage dice increasing effects that I missed? Are there any PFS legal ways to decrease the penalty for wielding a weapon that's too big for you? I see that effortless lace isn't legal for PFS... Is there anything that I might have missed?
I don't think enlarge can stack like that.
Did you get the oversized limbs tiefling ability? Because you would just always be able to wield huge weapons, and they grow with you.
By the way, a Huge Great sword would be 20 ft. Long and weigh 32 lb. As a reference point, a froghemoth is 22 ft. Tall.
Edit: Big problem is accuracy. At level 3 Titan Mauler (soonest you can wield oversized weapons) you get a -5 accuracy penalty, that gradually decreases with more barbarian levels.
I know that this might be a dumb question, but Tiefling's Oversized Limb abilities only negate the Penalty for using large weapons? "allowing you to use Large weapons without penalty" never, by RAW, allows you to use Large 2H weapons because they are still not built for your size. I'm pretty sure you'll still need 1 level of Titan Fighter.
That being said, if you have a Tiefling Boon with oversized limbs, why not go Vital Strike Natural Weapons ranger? There are no restrictions that say you HAVE to go Natural Weapons (bonus feats like Weapon Focus (Great Sword), Vital Strike, and Improved Vital Strike for free). 1 Level of Titan Fighter gives you 2H weapons of Large creatures. Oversized Limbs negate the penalty from Titan Fighter.
If I am wrong, and Oversized Limbs give 2H fighting without penalty, then 10 levels of Ranger gives you Vital Strike 1 level early, gives you access to Lead Blades, and allows you to pick a different enchantment other than Impact when casting spells on yourself.
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Multiple seperate size increases do not stack. Additionally, multiple "effective" size increases do not stack (ie: lead blades and impact).
Titan *fighter* not mauler. Fighter archetype, not the barbarian archetype. When I'm huge and something like 30 feet tall, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have a problem with a 20 foot greatsword ;)
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I don't think enlarge can stack like that.
Did you get the oversized limbs tiefling ability? Because you would just always be able to wield huge weapons, and they grow with you.
By the way, a Huge Great sword would be 20 ft. Long and weigh 32 lb. As a reference point, a froghemoth is 22 ft. Tall.
Edit: Big problem is accuracy. At level 3 Titan Mauler (soonest you can wield oversized weapons) you get a -5 accuracy penalty, that gradually decreases with more barbarian levels.
Titan *Fighter* not mauler. Fighter archetype. Gets the ability at level 1. Also, when i'm something like 30 feet tall, I'm sure I wouldn't have a problem with a 20 foot greatsword!
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Multiple seperate size increases do not stack. Additionally, multiple "effective" size increases do not stack (ie: lead blades and impact).Titan *fighter* not mauler. Fighter archetype, not the barbarian archetype. When I'm huge and something like 30 feet tall, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have a problem with a 20 foot greatsword ;)
I don't think I want to do vital strike, as that requires a standard action. I think I'd rather have my 2-3 attack at that point.
@Siegebeast - How are you going to get Pounce/Ignore Difficult Terrain? Otherwise, have fun with those 2-3 attacks per turn without Pounce and Ignore Terrain effects. Unless your DM is being kind to you when it comes to enemy placement and using bad positioning. :P
It must be nice.... I've never once had a DM that used an encounter that allowed PC's to use full attack actions. I think I only ever done it once, because I had 15ft. reach when he thought I only had a 10ft. reach, and he never made that mistake again, lol.
Personally, I'd rather take an option that gives me Free Combat Feats and access to Lead Blades through level up, and deals max damage 25-50% of the time, and the option to deal near-max damage the rest of the time when I can't get a full attack option off.
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Did you get the oversized limbs tiefling ability? Because you would just always be able to wield huge weapons, and they grow with you.
In PFS you don't get to choose (or roll) any of those "random" variant Tiefling abilities, so no Oversized limbs.
You'll probably want Irongrip Gauntlets. They'll reduce the penalties for oversized weapons.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/e-g/gaunt lets-irongrip
Irongrip Gauntlets are not a PFS-legal item.
So the way combat against a BBEG looks is: Round One: Buffs! Double Enlarge (YAY, I'm HUGE now!) Lead Blades. Round 2: Charge!
Both Primal Transformation and Soul Stone are swift actions. You can only use one swift action per turn, so it will be two rounds before you get to max size. Not a big deal if you aren't planning to attack until the second round anyway. As multiple people have pointed out, lead blades does not stack with impact.
I don't see anything prohibiting the Primal Transformation and Soul Stone from stacking. Soul Stone specifically calls out enlarge person, which is a polymorph effect, but the Large evolution is untyped. Incorrect, see below.
Overall - eh. You're going to be level 10 at the earliest before you can do all this. Those to-hit penalties are nasty, though the big strength bump from Primal Transformation will cancel some of them out. And Druid's Local 704 Union will be very angry at you for letting your companion die... It's not particularly powerful, but I do like the roleplaying idea of this character demanding he get the biggest weapons he can find.
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@Siegebeast - How are you going to get Pounce/Ignore Difficult Terrain? Otherwise, have fun with those 2-3 attacks per turn without Pounce and Ignore Terrain effects. Unless your DM is being kind to you when it comes to enemy placement and using bad positioning. :P
It must be nice.... I've never once had a DM that used an encounter that allowed PC's to use full attack actions. I think I only ever done it once, because I had 15ft. reach when he thought I only had a 10ft. reach, and he never made that mistake again, lol.
Personally, I'd rather take an option that gives me Free Combat Feats and access to Lead Blades through level up, and deals max damage 25-50% of the time, and the option to deal near-max damage the rest of the time when I can't get a full attack option off.
Never a full attack off a charge, but never a vital strike off a charge either. After front lines clash, there isn't much movement beyond five foot shifts - where you can still take a full attack afterward.
@Siegebeast: You've never actually fought against Wizards or Archers who actually try to keep a distance from you, have you? Full attack damage is hypothetical damage that must have all the stars align perfectly for you to perform 100% of the time in combat. I mean, I guess you could take Power Attack at level 2 instead of level 1 and Furious Focus at level 6 instead of level 3. But then what, Cleave? Carnage? Improved Sunder? You're using 2H fighting, not 2W fighting so the 2W Fighting Style is useless. Underhanded if you wanted to make an Oversized Weapon with Dirty Tactics. Additionally, 1 level Titan Fighter, 11 Ranger gives you Magic and access to Stacking Archetypes that you don't get with Titan Fighter. Same HP and BAB, and 4 more Skillpoints, the only reason you would take more levels in Fighter is to improve the number of Combat Feats you get.
Personally, here is what I would do for an Oversized Weapon guy:
Class: Fighter [Titan Fighter] 2, Ranger [Shapeshifter/Wild Hunter]
Weapon of Choice: Vicious Greatsword(Greataxe) w/ Effortless Lace
Secondary Weapon: Composite Longbow
Combat Options
The Dream: Full attack action with 6d6 Melee
The Most Likely: Full attack action with 4d6
Backup Plan: 18d6 Attack after a Move Action
Backup Plan vs Running Opponents: 12d6 after a Move Action
@Belafon: Effortless Lace from PPC: Giant Hunter's Guide might be the best item you're going to be able to get in PFS. Decrease penalty by 2 is a nice bonus for titan fighters.
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Multiple seperate size increases do not stack. Additionally, multiple "effective" size increases do not stack (ie: lead blades and impact).
Okay, I went hunting through the FAQ and the Core Rulebook. The Core Rulebook has no particular section dedicated to what happens if two size increases are done to the same creature. However several spells - including enlarge person - say (bolding mine)
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.
And of course bonuses of the same type do not stack, they overlap. That isn't actually important for this discussion because the Large evolution gives untyped bonuses, not size bonuses.
So at first I thought these would stack, but then I took a closer look. While the evolution is untyped and is an (Ex) Extraordinary ability (non-magical) the granting effect is actually Primal Transformation. Primal Transformation is magical: (Su) Supernatural to be exact.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like.
So both sources are magical size increases; they wouldn't stack.
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@Siegebeast: You've never actually fought against Wizards or Archers who actually try to keep a distance from you, have you? Full attack damage is hypothetical damage that must have all the stars align perfectly for you to perform 100% of the time in combat. I mean, I guess you could take Power Attack at level 2 instead of level 1 and Furious Focus at level 6 instead of level 3. But then what, Cleave? Carnage? Improved Sunder? You're using 2H fighting, not 2W fighting so the 2W Fighting Style is useless. Underhanded if you wanted to make an Oversized Weapon with Dirty Tactics. Additionally, 1 level Titan Fighter, 11 Ranger gives you Magic and access to Stacking Archetypes that you don't get with Titan Fighter. Same HP and BAB, and 4 more Skillpoints, the only reason you would take more levels in Fighter is to improve the number of Combat Feats you get.
Personally, here is what I would do for an Oversized Weapon guy:
Class: Fighter [Titan Fighter] 2, Ranger [Shapeshifter/Wild Hunter]
Weapon of Choice: Vicious Greatsword(Greataxe) w/ Effortless Lace
Secondary Weapon: Composite LongbowCombat Options
The Dream: Full attack action with 6d6 Melee
The Most Likely: Full attack action with 4d6
Backup Plan: 18d6 Attack after a Move Action
Backup Plan vs Running Opponents: 12d6 after a Move Action@Belafon: Effortless Lace from PPC: Giant Hunter's Guide might be the best item you're going to be able to get in PFS. Decrease penalty by 2 is a nice bonus for titan fighters.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Giant Hunter's Handbook
Archetypes: all archetypes on page 20–21 are legal for play; Equipment: all equipment and kits on pages 24–25 are legal for play; Feats: all feats on page 19 and pages 22–23 are legal for play; Magic items: all magic items on pages 28–29 and the back inside cover, except effortless lace, are legal for play including the two special abilities...
Isn't it funny, how you make 1 mistake on a forums that doesn't allow you to edit, and people are so foolheartly blinded by that mistake, they completely ignore the completely valid arguments other than that one mistake. Please read the rest of my post. Please don't begin saying "Polly want a cracker" - repeating someone else's argument and ignoring the other valid points to post for no reason other than to mirror another post, doesn't do anything to promote your argument. In fact, it serves to show that you can't argue against the main section of the post, not even meant for you, so you choose to nitpick the post in a section not meant for the debate we were having.
@Belafon - I am proven wrong, yet you have a Parrot mimicking you. lol
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Multiple seperate size increases do not stack. Additionally, multiple "effective" size increases do not stack (ie: lead blades and impact).Do you have something saying from the CRB? Because talking about it with my venture captain, he didn't see a problem with any of it.
This faq FAQ
States that size increases (from any source) do not stack. Same for weapon damage.
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From a build peespective, using a large bastard sword will give you very similar damage with a much lower accuracy hit.
Abyssal bloodrager goes large at level 4, which is the fastest, action economy efficient way, for a full martial to go large.
So far as the whole full attack argument, this kind of build can make excellent use of vital strike, given the end state of the weapon damage dice. In pfs, vital striking 4d8 to 8d8 should cover you.