Gun-wielding Witch

[Tamago]

I'm looking at making a Witch character for my next campaign who uses a firearm (probably a rifle) as her weapon. However, looking through the rules, I'm not seeing any options designed to support this particular combo.

Right now, I'm thinking of foregoing Gunslinger levels entirely, and instead taking Witch (and later Winter Witch) as my class levels, and using feats to learn the gun stuff. I've gotten my GM to agree to let me take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at level 1 even though I don't have a +1 BAB yet. I was also considering skipping Gunsmithing and relying on Mending spells to repair misfired guns. Then I could spend my feats on things like Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot.

Any thoughts or suggestions for bringing guns into the Witch class?

Thanks!

[AoiShogunate]

I would take a look at the Legendary Games Deadeye Hexer.

http://www.makeyourgamelegendary.com/products-page/all-products/legendary-h ybrids-deadeye-hexer/

Even if 3rd party isn't a go, it could be good for inspiration.

I don't own it but I do own the Shinobi in their Hybrids collection and it is fantastic.

[Gulthor]

If you can get this to work, you'd be like...

The Gunwitch Horror!

Hohohohohoho...

Okay, now on a more serious note, what's your goal for your gun use? Just as an alternative to hexing/casting? Do you want it to empower your casting in some fashion? Are you open to taking a 1-level dip into another class?

Half-Elf with the Ancestral Arms alternate racial feature is a nice, easy way of picking up EWF if you're uninterested in snagging a level in another class. With your other 1st level feat, you could start yourself down the Point Blank Shot path or consider picking up Amateur Gunslinger.

If picking up a level in something else isn't a problem, I'd consider taking a look at the Spellslinger Wizard archetype. Nets you your proficiencies, and best of all, neither Arcane Gun nor Mage Bullets specify that they only work with Wizard spells, so you'd be free to utilize your witch spells with them.

[Tacticslion]

Dot.

[Tamago]

AoiShogunate wrote:

I would take a look at the Legendary Games Deadeye Hexer.

http://www.makeyourgamelegendary.com/products-page/all-products/legendary-h ybrids-deadeye-hexer/

Even if 3rd party isn't a go, it could be good for inspiration.

I don't own it but I do own the Shinobi in their Hybrids collection and it is fantastic.

Hmm, I'll need to run it by my GM, but that sounds like exactly what I'm looking for! :-)

[Zabraxis]

There are a few options:

Spellslinger Wizard for enhancement bonus to DCs and burn a spell to add enchantments to your gun. Witch doesn't have to worry about the banned schools.

Seige Gunner Gunslinger for Int based Grit and quick clear.

Havocker Witch if you reflavor Kinetic Blast as a gun. Giving up Hexes is a little rough but a scaling blast you can use all day long could fit the gunslinger motif w/ a little reflavoring.

[Decimus Drake]

What about the Unchained multiclass variant gunslinger? Sacrifice half your feats for a number of gunslinger class features. However the progress could be a little slow and maybe the cost too steep though if I was happy with the rate of progress I would choose this option over sacrificing a level of a spell caster .

It might be possible to mitigate this cost if you play a gnome as they get 1/6th of a hex as a favoured class bonus and since one of the most common feats for a witch to choose is extra hex it's like you're getting an extra feat every six levels.

Out of curiosity does the human racial heritage allow them to pick a favoured class bonus of another race? If so it gives you a little more freedom to choose. Also if you were planning to take Skill Focus at all the Focused Study alternate human racial nets you three bonus Skill Focus feats (at levels 1, 8 and 16) at the "cost" of your 1st level bonus feat.

[Backlash3906]

Decimus Drake wrote:

What about the Unchained multiclass variant gunslinger? Sacrifice half your feats for a number of gunslinger class features. However the progress could be a little slow and maybe the cost too steep though if I was happy with the rate of progress I would choose this option over sacrificing a level of a spell caster .

Please don't do this. Losing one level of spellcasting by dipping Spellslinger is FAR superior. Let's take a look at the Gunslinger VMC.

Firearm Proficiency: At 3rd level, she gains proficiency in all firearms.
You can do this with a feat.

Gunsmith: At 7th level, she gains the gunsmith class feature.
This can also be done with a feat, and is really unnecessary if you have Mending available as scrolls or to cast.

Deed: At 11th level, she gains the Amateur Gunslinger feat.
If you want this, you want it way earlier. If you've got the feat to spare by foregoing Gunsmith, take Combat Stamina if your GM allows it. It grants a combat trick to AG that gives you an additional first-level deed. (Having both Deadeye and Gunslinger's Dodge is nice.)(ETA: If you're getting an actual advanced firearms rifle, you can ignore Deadeye and instead take Quick Clear. Yes, mending does the same job, but spending a grit point lets you do the repair as a move action.)

Improved Deed: At 15th level, she gains a 3rd-level gunslinger deed of her choice.
3rd level deeds are a bit lackluster to spend a feat for. (Improved Initiative is less conditional than Gunslinger Initiative, and Pistol-Whip is bad because you should have touch spells or other backup plans ready if you wind up in melee.) Instead, if you absolutely must have Utility Shot, take Martial Focus ahead of time (gives your firearm more damage, and gets you access to Weapon Mastery feats), and at this level you'll already have the +6 BAB necessary for Marksman's Utility.

Greater Deed: At 19th level, she gains a 7th-level gunslinger deed of her choice.
Dead Shot needs high BAB to be worth it, and a(n at least) 15th or higher level spellcaster will have their things to do with a standard or full round action to set up flat-footed or the effects of Targeting.

Those feat slots can be put to better use improving your witch's hexes, or obtaining the standard ranged combat feats.

[Rashagar]

Yeah if you're going to VMC for anything do it for Magus.

To be honest I have a friend playing a pistol witch and they seem to get on great with just levels in witch and feats invested in shooting, BAB isn't as much of an issue when you're using firearms.

[Derek Dalton]

If you go Rifle three levels of Musket Master is well worth it. You reload with Alchemical cartridges as a free action. After that go Witch. You don't need Point Blank or Precise since you hit on touch and most monsters touch ac are lower then their regular ac. Dragons being on perfect example of this. If you are going another gun one level gives you some nice abilities enough to take. It depends on what you are looking for but I'd recommend at least one level of gunslinger.

[Just a Mort]

Amateur gunslinger feat.

Half elf for ancestral arms (fire arm proficiency - pistol). because with rapid reload and paper cartridges you can make it a free action.

You want to check with your GM if mending works on the broken condition by a misfire since you will only have 1-2 grit points per day to use quick clear deed.

[MageHunter]

Obligatory Meme

I find this interesting. With Touch AC and buffs you could hit stuff. Could Eldritch Knight work for this? Medium BAB AND 9th-level casting.

[Gulthor]

MageHunter wrote:

Obligatory Meme

I find this interesting. With Touch AC and buffs you could hit stuff. Could Eldritch Knight work for this? Medium BAB AND 9th-level casting.

My favorite method of bringing Eldritch Knight online is VMC Battle Oracle and grabbing Skill at Arms at 3rd level - allows you to enter EK as a full caster.

EDIT: Plus, Oracle is one of the classes that's actually nice to VMC into.

[UnArcaneElection]

Another possibility, if you don't think 1/2 BAB is going to cut it even with attacking vs Touch AC, would be to go Hexcrafter Magus with firearm proficiency.

In addition to Half-Elf with Ancestral Arms (how did a firearm end up being one of your ancestral weapons, anyway?), Humans can trade in their bonus feat for Military Tradition, which gives you 2 martial or exotic weapon proficiencies without needing BAB +1. If you came from a pirate background (or Alkenstar or Numeria), the flavor/backstory even fits.

[Backlash3906]

Derek Dalton wrote:

If you go Rifle three levels of Musket Master is well worth it. You reload with Alchemical cartridges as a free action. After that go Witch. You don't need Point Blank or Precise since you hit on touch and most monsters touch ac are lower then their regular ac. Dragons being on perfect example of this. If you are going another gun one level gives you some nice abilities enough to take. It depends on what you are looking for but I'd recommend at least one level of gunslinger.

If he has an actual rifle, then Musket Master isn't all that necessary. All Advanced firearms, one or two-handed, reduce reloads to a free action with Rapid Reload.

Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms are chamber-loaded. It is a move action to load a one-handed or two-handed advanced firearm to its full capacity. The Rapid Reload feat reduces this to a free action.

[Kazaan]

The half-elf archetype Bonded Witch could work. Just pick the firearm as your bonded object.

[UnArcaneElection]

^You still need a feat or a dip (or an alternate racial trait) for weapon proficiency -- Bonded Item (Witch style and Wizard style) doesn't automatically give proficiency with a bonded weapon.

[Tamago]

Thank you all for your advice!

I ended up going with a level in Spellslinger Wizard, and I'll follow up with Witch levels for the rest of my career. Character creation was last night, so I haven't played her yet. I'll let you all know how it goes! :-)

Thanks!