My wife went to PAX West, followed by other travel plans, and returned home recently. I didn't attend, so I'm hearing about this now. She enjoyed herself and loved the convention, so don't think this marred her enjoyment on the whole. She tried out one of the Pathfinder one-shot tables, and evidently one of the first things asked as she was signing up was whether she was signing up for her boyfriend. While she was the only woman in the room at the time, that's not a good sign.
The pregenerated 1st level rogue she was handed was heavily modified - no weapons except flasks, race switched to halfling, only knew Common while everyone else in the party only knew Elven (RP was thus difficult for her). At one point she threw a flask, rolled a 19, and was told she hit herself with the weapon. Enemies repeatedly saw through her +11 Stealth (no rolling) and bee-lined to attack her character, provoking AoOs from flanking PCs to get to her. There was no stated story reason for the aggro. No PC got below half HP through the entire adventure, except her due to the focus fire - survival was only because the players recognized what was going on and the cleric spent most (all?) of their time healing.
I'm certain that's not all that happened, but just this bit is frustrating to hear about. I am disappointed that Paizo had such a DM representing their company at PAX, and I can only hope my wife's survey/review made it through the process.
The character had other rules-issues going on.
Otherwise, that's actually a good question. It was something she had to sign up for in one of the rooms, but she's not used to con-gaming and so didn't pay attention to whether it was a Paizo-sponsored table or some basement-dweller having a power trip.
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My wife went to PAX West, followed by other travel plans, and returned home recently. I didn't attend, so I'm hearing about this now. She enjoyed herself and loved the convention, so don't think this marred her enjoyment on the whole. She tried out one of the Pathfinder one-shot tables, and evidently one of the first things asked as she was signing up was whether she was signing up for her boyfriend. While she was the only woman in the room at the time, that's not a good sign.
The pregenerated 1st level rogue she was handed was heavily modified - no weapons except flasks, race switched to halfling, only knew Common while everyone else in the party only knew Elven (RP was thus difficult for her). At one point she threw a flask, rolled a 19, and was told she hit herself with the weapon. Enemies repeatedly saw through her +11 Stealth (no rolling) and bee-lined to attack her character, provoking AoOs from flanking PCs to get to her. There was no stated story reason for the aggro. No PC got below half HP through the entire adventure, except her due to the focus fire - survival was only because the players recognized what was going on and the cleric spent most (all?) of their time healing.
I'm certain that's not all that happened, but just this bit is frustrating to hear about. I am disappointed that Paizo had such a DM representing their company at PAX, and I can only hope my wife's survey/review made it through the process.
That's completely horrible.
To help make sure this get handled the way it should may I suggest you send a e-mail to Louis Manko Levite at [ VLTaenia @ gmail.com ] and Steven Huffstutler at [ steven.huffstutler @ gmail.com ]
If you could please give them the info of what happened, what day and time it happened, and the Number and of the GM on the bottom of the Chronicle Sheet and if the signature is legible the name of the GM as well.
I believe those two were in charge of recruiting for the PFS events and they are probably the best suited to make sure the GM is handled appropriately and the best way to make sure things like this don't happen again.
The more important issue is if they were representing themselves AS Paizo with their game, and they did this, that could be... significant.
I see a fair number of people who GM with their own created modules +pregens doing non-Society Pathfinder tables. This might be one of them. In that case he's representing no one but himself and the open gaming coordinator.
I'll see my wife late tonight and find out if she retained any paperwork from the event. There actually is a chance this DM didn't pose as a representative. I wasn't there and I don't know how Paizo separates itself from casual tables, while she isn't experienced with con-gaming and thus wouldn't be familiar with the differences. Hell, *I* needed three conventions before I could differentiate worth a damn.
I'll see my wife late tonight and find out if she retained any paperwork from the event. There actually is a chance this DM didn't pose as a representative. I wasn't there and I don't know how Paizo separates itself from casual tables, while she isn't experienced with con-gaming and thus wouldn't be familiar with the differences. Hell, *I* needed three conventions before I could differentiate worth a damn.
Open Gaming tables are pretty much done by the gamemaster in question completely on their own, just as they have been since the D+D days. It's how all of the other games not run by the Big Two get represented for the most part. Pretty much the only oversight that's done over open tables would be the convention person in charge of open gaming.
Typically they're run in a distinct open gaming area, separate from the Network campaign tables.
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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My wife went to PAX West, followed by other travel plans, and returned home recently. I didn't attend, so I'm hearing about this now. She enjoyed herself and loved the convention, so don't think this marred her enjoyment on the whole. She tried out one of the Pathfinder one-shot tables, and evidently one of the first things asked as she was signing up was whether she was signing up for her boyfriend. While she was the only woman in the room at the time, that's not a good sign.
The pregenerated 1st level rogue she was handed was heavily modified - no weapons except flasks, race switched to halfling, only knew Common while everyone else in the party only knew Elven (RP was thus difficult for her). At one point she threw a flask, rolled a 19, and was told she hit herself with the weapon. Enemies repeatedly saw through her +11 Stealth (no rolling) and bee-lined to attack her character, provoking AoOs from flanking PCs to get to her. There was no stated story reason for the aggro. No PC got below half HP through the entire adventure, except her due to the focus fire - survival was only because the players recognized what was going on and the cleric spent most (all?) of their time healing.
I'm certain that's not all that happened, but just this bit is frustrating to hear about. I am disappointed that Paizo had such a DM representing their company at PAX, and I can only hope my wife's survey/review made it through the process.
First of all, I would like to apologize to your wife for the experiences she had at the checkin and game tables during PAX. The person who checked her should not have made that comment as Paizo does pride itself on being inclusive to all. The pregen should never have been altered to begin with let alone to that extreme. Now on the 19 attack roll and I could be mistaken on this (I do not have the quest in front of me at this moment) should have hit anything in the quest even with the improvised weapon of the flask and throwing in to melee.
Second, I did see that one of our Venture-Captains for Seattle did send you a message so I am glad you are in good hands. Unfortunately, the harder part of all this will be to identify the GM due to the quest chronicles being signed by our Organized Play Coordinator. It is my hope that the Venture-Captain in that area can identify the GM and counsel them on this incident.
In closing, I hope that this does not cause her to give up on PFS as it is a great program and to have one GM completely spoil the experience is not good for a campaign that is always growing.
The Pathfinder Society Quest and demos for the Adventure Card Game were the only games running in the Paizo rooms. No open games were present as I know all the tables in those rooms were assigned to either a part of the quest or card game demos.
I checked with her, and from the sounds of it, this was not in an official Paizo room; it was evidently one of the free-for-all tables and she just got horrific luck.
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I checked with her, and from the sounds of it, this was not in an official Paizo room; it was evidently one of the free-for-all tables and she just got horrific luck.
I'm sorry that she wandered into a bad game. And I'm extremely glad it was not the Paizo room. That is not how we roll at all and I could not imagine that ever going on in a space that we run.
I would still let PAX know about the experience. It could not hurt and might even help. Personally, I find that experience unacceptable, and what I know of the folks at PAX, they would as well.
Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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I would let PAX Know as well. I think that a strength of PFS is that you have venture officers who can address concerns.
Open gaming tables can vary greatly in quality. I hope that you find much better GMs in the future.
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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I checked with her, and from the sounds of it, this was not in an official Paizo room; it was evidently one of the free-for-all tables and she just got horrific luck.
On one hand, I am glad this was not in the Paizo room as what happened would never have flown. On the other, I am sad that it was a free-for-all table and she had that kind of luck. As mentioned earlier, PFS has the structure that if a PFS GM did something like what was described, there are Venture-Officers and others who will address these issues to resolution. With open gaming, it is really hit or miss on the quality of the GMs available and I would strongly encourage you (as others have) to bring this to the PAX organizers. The actions taken during the game your wife played are still unacceptable and should be dealt with quickly.
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It sounds like this has been sorted out, but while I would hope a 19 on the die would hit anything at level 1, it's not guaranteed. The GM having known what the character's bonuses were (since he apparently altered it to uselessness) would have a good idea of what's a hit or not.
In addition to that, a character could have an effective -8 to hit in ranged combat if they're not built for it. (+4 to the target's AC due to cover and -4 due to targeting someone engaged in melee via a ranged weapon).
A lvl one rogue I'd hope would have a +2-4 to hit via dex, so at best (assuming the above penalties) it's a 15 to hit touch. I would hope that would hit anything's lvl 1 touch AC. While it's basically unheard of for a 15 to miss touch at level 1, if the rogue only had +3 dex (so 14 to hit instead in the given scenario) that would miss something like a generic goblin that someone had cast shield of faith upon.
It sounds like this has been sorted out, but while I would hope a 19 on the die would hit anything at level 1, it's not guaranteed. The GM having known what the character's bonuses were (since he apparently altered it to uselessness) would have a good idea of what's a hit or not.
In addition to that, a character could have an effective -8 to hit in ranged combat if they're not built for it. (+4 to the target's AC due to cover and -4 due to targeting someone engaged in melee via a ranged weapon).
A lvl one rogue I'd hope would have a +2-4 to hit via dex, so at best (assuming the above penalties) it's a 15 to hit touch. I would hope that would hit anything's lvl 1 touch AC. While it's basically unheard of for a 15 to miss touch at level 1, if the rogue only had +3 dex (so 14 to hit instead in the given scenario) that would miss something like a generic goblin that someone had cast shield of faith upon.
Miss? Maybe.
Hit yourself instead?
Nope.
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Hit yourself instead?
Nope.
That could just be lost in translation along the way. She may've taken splash damage because it fell short. I'm just simply trying to defend possible situations because the guy isn't here to defend himself. I come off as a jerk enough to know that stuff can simply be taken out of context or just misreprsent the intent.
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As one of the GMs for the "Official Paizo Room", rooms 201-203, this did not happen at our area. We had probably just as many women as men come through. Our reception area was the same 4-5 people (all but myself were women) throughout the con, including Tonya Woldridge herself. I was one of the reception folks for maybe half the con, otherwise GMing for both RPG and ACG. We used only the official pregens, via the "Pregen Binders" that Paizo has printed for their larger conventions. Society rules in play, so no friendly fire, and no crit failures. We ran the new Honor's Echo Quests. If anyone has any complaints regarding this year's Paizo event at PAX, I urge you to please PM Tonya Woldridge, or Louis Manko-Levite who was the event organizer. It is sad to hear that this happened at all, regardless of where, and I do hope that she gives PFS a shot as the structure really does not allow for this type of behavior.
(Note: CR3 Giant Scorpions should not be placed in a level one only adventure. Also that a full roleplay finale will take more than an hour, no matter how slimmed down you try to make it. It took me 45-50 minutes, to walk a group that could not complete the quests due to not coming back to the con on Sun/Mon, talking non-stop through the finale. I asked them only which pregen they'd use and for their choices with NPCs. No dice were rolled during that time. We'd sat our last tables for the night and they wanted to know the rest of the story, so we obliged.)
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Like others have said, it sounds like this has been worked out already. I just wanted to add to what Steven G. said about the Paizo room from an attendee's standpoint.
I Went through most of the scenarios there and was ALWAYS signed in by a woman (who managed to recognize me and remember my name every time I came back!). I also had my 15 year old daughter with me and this was her first ever tabletop experience (she had never shown any interest at home). My daughter had a wonderful time and has decided to cosplay as Amiri the next time we go because that pregen was so inspirational to her. The GMs I played with were mostly great, and the others were at least not bad.
I am sorry your wife stumbled stumbled across one of the individuals that can make this hobby unwelcoming. That makes me very sad, but I still would encourage her to try again in the official Paizo room if she goes again. Most of my tables had a solo woman join and I never once saw them given any of this grief.
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I attended the PAX West tables and completed all six sessions of Honor's Echo, had a great time wrecking some face with Crowe while my friend brought Yoon. It was pretty dang fun and all of the GMs and players were great! The organizers were competent and respectful.
It's too bad hearing that someone ran a bad table somewhere at the con :(
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I attended the PAX West tables and completed all six sessions of Honor's Echo, had a great time wrecking some face with Crowe while my friend brought Yoon. It was pretty dang fun and all of the GMs and players were great! The organizers were competent and respectful.
It's too bad hearing that someone ran a bad table somewhere at the con :(
You weren't at my table where Yoon told Crowe "It's ok, you can hide behind me..." were you?
I laughed so hard at that...
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I attended the PAX West tables and completed all six sessions of Honor's Echo, had a great time wrecking some face with Crowe while my friend brought Yoon. It was pretty dang fun and all of the GMs and players were great! The organizers were competent and respectful.
It's too bad hearing that someone ran a bad table somewhere at the con :(
You weren't at my table where Yoon told Crowe "It's ok, you can hide behind me..." were you?
I laughed so hard at that...
Hahahaha sounds like us but I can't remember that instance precisely.
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Hi, I was the organizer for PAX West. As Steve G. said we were in 201 - 203 and have been for the last few years. Please let me know if you come back next year so we can arrange to get you some fun Pathfinder games with some of our great GMs. We do try to provide an inclusive atmosphere and while there maybe a bit of a wait, the games are well worth it. If you have any questions feel free to contact me, I will do my best to make sure your next PAX West Pathfinder experience is more enjoyable.
Next year we will be making sure we will be easier to locate and will put signage in the open gaming area to let people know where we can be found.
Louis Manko Levite.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Because on some level, when someone has been hurt like this, it is important to rebuild trust.
Because at some level, when stuff like this happens, it is important to call it out and make clear that some things are not acceptable.
Because most of these posts have been directing the person on where they can find safe spaces or rescue.
It's sad to hear that this person was making no effort to differentiate himself from being a legit Pathfinder table.
At conventions, there are going to be all sorts of games available, using a wide variety of game systems. None of them are really illegitimate. They were using the PF rules, even if badly, that makes them as legit as anything else. There's no implication of fraud or anything here.
What they seem to have been was a jerk table, run by crappy GM. That's a completely different issue from legitimacy, though no less disappointing for the unfortunate participants.
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Venture-Lieutenant, California—Los Angeles (South Bay)
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Because on some level, when someone has been hurt like this, it is important to rebuild trust.
Because at some level, when stuff like this happens, it is important to call it out and make clear that some things are not acceptable.
Because most of these posts have been directing the person on where they can find safe spaces or rescue.
Wherever we can correct a problem, even if we did not cause it, we should. My hope is that the original poster and his wife will think better of PFS because we tried to address our concerns.
Trust often has to be earned. By treating others with concern and respect, we can begin to build trust with people who have had poor gaming experiences.