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Luriel is part of the warden of the natural world's team. With her other team mates, they try to ensure that the area surrounding the city remain at least relatively safe from threats, both from native creatures and intruders from the elf gate.
Personally I think you'll get more submissions if you can put all the campaign info and character build rules in a single post(I.e races allowed,), point buy, starting gp, what happens to metal tools and weapons(I.e what substitutes them, how much it costs). Its hard to build a character when everything is in flux.
Don't feel afraid to just say all elves only, no other races, just for the sake of your sanity.
I played/watched ROTR, jade regent, skulls and shackles, carrion crown, curse of crimson throne, legacy of fire, serpents skull - that leaves me very little else to play, thus the search for homebrew. If the casting system is going to be changed to spheres of power only, then I'm not interested as its too much work learning new systems.
*Raises hand*
So... the party would be Elfs?
We'd be goin' from some where...?
To some where else?
Would we all be natives to where we's at? Or is we discoverin' tha' place, as it were?
Sorry I is confuzzled..
Lookin' forwards ta' playin' with folks! (^_^)
Personally I think you'll get more submissions if you can put all the campaign info and character build rules in a single post(I.e races allowed,), point buy, starting gp, what happens to metal tools and weapons(I.e what substitutes them, how much it costs). Its hard to build a character when everything is in flux.If the casting system is going to be changed to spheres of power only, then I'm not interested as its too much work learning new systems.
Spheres of power doesnt have to be exclusive to vancian casting, Im using both together in a game Im starting back up by tomorrow, no issues letting the two co exist so far.
But you do bring up a good point, if the character options are pooled into one post, it will be easier to parse for players. I for one, am not even sure what class or race I can let my Ice mage be so its hard to give a real submission.
I'm discussing the validity of the races with the GM anyway. If it's decided that my concepts are too complicated for use than so be it. Otherwise, I'm currently tweaking the Lightborn builds on my profile according to requests. As a simple point, aasimar have no ability score negatives. Hence no negatives with Lightborn. Darkborn, however, will feature significant negatives, being half born of evil and whatnot.
Also, I have alternate, Castrovel-based core race builds(excluding gnomes who did not come to Golarion until after the elves left. more explained if I get that far) on the burner. Something to consider.
Once aeryk gets back to me I'll crack down on the remaining races but for now the Lightborn are up to specs I think. Please check my profile for the revisions.
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@vetus: Oh yes, evil is defiantly my thing. just finding a DM that understands that I play evil better than they think is hard :P bing a DM, I'm supposed to be Evil...
here's how i classify the spectrum(or basically how i build my characters of these alignments):good=Caring and kind, Lawful= orderly and consistent, chaotic= free and energetic, Evil= sick and sadistic.
plus if there is one palidain applicant i am immediately shunted off to the side :( however i also like Chaotic neutral and Lawful neutral characters too, and good is more of a side thing for me. all my good characters are... over-caring. they are all healers as well :P
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Hey, everyone. Lots of good discussion! I'll try to cover everything here, but let me know if I missed you. Sorry if it still feels in flux. It is. I like the collaboration, though. Let's keep the ideas flowing and once everything is settled we can start a fresh thread and of course all of you will be given priority.
Character builds
Classes
By default I'm allowing all the core and base classes, except gunslinger. And summoner seems a bit broken, but if you want to play one we can make sure it's balanced with everyone else. I'm not as familiar with the hybrid classes, but I like the idea of them. Again let's make sure everything is balanced.
Races
I like the options Vetus Relator has been creating. If you'd like to make some elven race options that are comparable that would be great. william Nightmoon I'm still deciding on drow, but maybe we could have a rare half-drow race. There would be discrimination, though.
@Vetus Relator I'm wary of racial abilities that step on the toes of class abilities like rage and favored enemy. Also to me Strength bonuses are weighted more than other stats since it affect attacks and damage. Maybe just one race option with +2 Strength.
Evil Characters
I think this leads to interparty conflict which can be interesting, but also problematic. I think everyone would have to have clear goals of why they are adventuring together. Or we could do something like Lost and see where it takes us. Could end up splitting into teams which could be interesting or evil characters are shunned. Let me know your thoughts.
Spheres of Power
This sounds interesting. Vancian magic definitely is far from perfect and forces characters into certain roles. I'm open to having these side by side and seeing how it balances out.
Campaign
I'm seeing the campaign as being being a bit more wild and on the fringes. I may shrink Threshold's size. I definitely like the exploratory angle. Maybe something like the show Terra Nova.
As far as character options the aiudara "elf gates" allow for travel across the planet, so people could be from far flung parts of the continent.
@Gnomezrule That sounds like a great idea. Definitely would want to keep this to a minimum, so there would probably only be one PC from Golarion.
@aeryk: I reworked the Frenzy of the Fallen trait to be more flexible and unique, removing the Str boost in favor of a specified to hit and damage boost as well as a changed penalty suite. My profile has the finished versions of everything I have so far.
Lastly, I'll also be adding the Golarii, a chimeric race of Golarion refugees that crossed over through the elfgates with the elves. They'll include racial builds for mostly human, human halfling, human half-elf, human half-orc, and human half-dwarf hybrids(one for each) with a short backstory on their history and culture on Castrovel since crossing over. Nothing too heavy, just something to build on I hope.
If I gauge my time right I can foresee completing them all by Friday if that's reasonable for everyone? Of course tweaking them as I go according to critiques.
just gonna say personally i'm not a fan of bringing in custom races, it's a good idea in theory but when designing races in general speaking as one who makes a lot of races designed to be balanced in the system.
if we are going to bring in subraces there needs to be a general consensus from everyone involved that no race is obviously more overpowered than any other.
otherwise we will end up with a Aasimar situation where they are obviously better than most races which is bs btw.
I've found that rp isn't actually a very accurate measure of power when designing. certain traits are way more powerful or weaker than given credit for
As for Scent, pinpointing a source only reveals its square, so an invisible enemy still has total concealment. Recommend this one go down to 2 or 3 RP.
I'd have gone with Speech of the Wilds being a 1/day Speak With Animals SLA. Possibly limiting it to an animal that the Soul mark shares resemblance to. Extra language is good too.
Angel: This one is pretty solid over all, but that partially depends on what exactly Attitude shifts are supposed to mean.
Planetars Visions is definitely not worth 2 RP though. There's a handful of weapons that get anything resembling mileage out of it.
Archon: They already have access to a Constitution or Wisdom bonus, the static feats are entirely redundant. If the PC picks one, they still have nearly (or exactly) the equivalent of another. This is less "offering a choice", and more "making sure to not have weaknesses." It also highlights the problem I mentioned of RP being a bad mechanic to measure by. Static Feat: Iron Will? 2RP. Dual-minded, which is untyped, gives the same bonus and stacks with Iron Will? 1RP. This is exactly what I was talking about. Alike options aren't even weighted well.
Azata: I'm noticing a pattern with these Celestial Noun Verber abilities, in that they're all very specific and weak. I'd reconsider these. Recommend either reducing costs to 1 for each, or removing them.
Other than that, the azata seem really over specialized. Silver tongued, lillends harp, object of desire, and seducer? I'd cut the list down to two, and add something different. This seems to again be less "adding options" and more "hyper-focusing."
Garuda: I'd just be repeating myself here, but Jnasinis lesson=too expensive. Otherwise, pretty good. Side note: Talons are usually restricted to legs only. Claws are for hands for PC races. Tengu for example.
Peri: Dual-minded, as I noted above, is a very solid universal defense boost. Should probably cost 3 RP. Fire in the Blood is not very powerful. Remember it's 1/day, and a small fraction of HP at that. Recommend 1 RP. I like Frenzy, it's cool and unique, but you've only made it stronger than before. A +4 to intimidate is unnecessary, the race can already have a Cha bonus. That's why I suggested a +2. The penalized skills aren't really something the frenzied PC will be doing anyway, so they don't change much as it seems. AC penalty is good, perhaps a -1 to reflex or will saves would work? If not, I would say to put a type on the bonuses, remove the non-AC penalties and call it a day.
Side-note: A flat bonus to damage and to-hit is actually an upgrade from the Str bonus oddly. I count 5 ways to get Dex to damage in first party sources, as well as one for Wis. An untyped bonus would help those as well.
The attitude shifts seem to be built as the drawback here, but only some are negative. It's also nebulous in what it's supposed to mean.
All in all, the fact that these races are supposed to be upgrades to the already powerful Aasimar (and evidently, the other races too) doesn't sit right with me. There's no need, and just having fun with it isn't a good reason to push all the first party material out the window. Remember these are supposed to be the options everyone has.
Edit: Looking through them, I do kinda want to give the Peri-blooded ones a try out.
@william Nightmoon Having only half the normal darkvision of a drow makes sense. We could lessen the light blindness to a save to balance this out. Also I'm a little wary of spell resistance, but let's see how it compares with the other races.
@Vetus Relator Sounds good. Thanks for doing all this setup! Feel free to PM me anything you think would be for DM eyes only. I'll start incorporating these races into the campaign.
@Ammon Knight of Ragathiel Agreed game balance is key. As long as we're all having fun then it's all good.
*Nods*
Okeys... so seems tha' Dm want mostly every one ta' be native ta' tha' place we's bein' at, right?
So's... whut be tha' DM's thoughts on'a Elf whut's not from here but from, say, over there...like GOlarion?
Thank'e muchly an' bestest wishes ta' every one! (^_^)
I crashed for work and woke up to a 3 and 1/2 hour old post I could have addressed then, lol, is what I'm saying.
Alright, to address each critique:
-The Prehensile Tail trait was more or less a filler, to be perfectly honest, and one that I felt gave the more of a kind of evolutionary feel. As though when mixed with elven blood, agathion blood produces unexpected possibilities. Something along those lines.
-Scent, as well as other sensory abilities are scaled with that RP cost to represent a very defining feature. Nothing more complex than that. Scent is a pretty awesome tool if used right, much like the prehensile tail.
-I'll reevaluate Plantar's Visions.
-Hm, I understand that the RP costs don't quite pan out if you're evaluating them on an RP for Reward basis, but ultimately it represents that different sources a particular bonus can come from. Like, for instance a Dual-Minded bonus comes from a constant inner struggle that sharpens one's will, whereas Iron Will(as a Feat) is derived from honing ones mind through training of some kind. It's a subtle difference, I know, but in terms of roleplaying, pretty big I would think.
I was more leaning towards the very combat-oriented mentality of Archons in general with feats than anything else. Flavor, just flavor.
-The more celestial-specific traits are exactly that, very specific. I'll consider reducing costs but ultimately I may just rework them to be worth it.
-The point of these subsequent racial options is 'hyper-focusing', plain and simple. Guilty as charged. Each Soul Mark is a melding of Elven and a specific kind of celestial's blood, the former of which is(again, for flavor's sake) focusing the possible features of the resultant being. More or less, I am giving the finger to the massive list of possible options aasimar/tielfling lovers have to look at when deciding what heavenly being they want in their genealogy.
-May boost the Janisini's Lesson to accommodate cost. Garuda seem to bear talons on their hands and feet, I'll peruse some material and get back with you on those.
-Dual-Minded, already talked about it in this post. Frenzy was changed to represent the state of mind that comes with it. You lose self-control, thinking critically becomes an issue(Intelligence and Sense Motive penalties indicative of the fallen angel forebear's indecision and mental weakness) and become hyper-aggressive(Savage in appearance, lips curled back to bare teeth and such, and you attain some level of combat ascension, also linked to the fallen angel's blood). Like I said before, guilty as charged for hyper-focusing.
-Attitude Shift is outlined briefly in the Otherworldy Heritage spoiler, but it's basically the effect a halfbreed elf on Castrovel has socially on other pureblooded elves. Basically, they see a claw-handed, pug-nosed, and beady-eyed agathion-blooded halfbreed walking around with a bit more disdain than say a beautiful and glistening angelic one. Make sense?
-Lastly, these are not upgrades. Castrovel is not Golarion. That's it. This is a different world with a different ecology and at this point I think that regardless how one could min-max any of these hybrids they could still easily die being eaten by some megafauna roaming the Castrovel jungles. These hybrids represent a different evolutionary process than golarion's elves and I'll be sure to expound upon that when I add the castrovel elf build.
I am doing my damndest to create something to wet everyon's whistle but it will be a bit before they're all on my profile is all. Just give me some time, lol.
-Peri-blooded was always the weirdest aasimar so I figured some more flavor would be cool for it. Glad you like it :)
Alright, now I must get ready for work. Tomorrow I will begin and hopefully finish the Darkborn and tweaking the Lightborn, possibly getting as far as the others.
Working as fast as I can, lol. I realize this isn't ideal for my fellow players and I'll try to hurry. Work and sleep don't give me a bunch of time I desperately need.
Real life comes first, so take your time to read through.
** spoiler omitted **...
You're acting as if Golarion doesn't have megafauna, high CR creatures, or if they're just more common on Castrovel as a given. None of those are true. In fact, the most powerful thing we know for sure is on Castrovel is a Formian Queen. CR 17. Golarion has plenty that can beat her up and take her lunch money.
Each mention of "tone it down" we make to you seems to be falling on deaf ears. No one asked for the new options to be stronger, in fact, three people have said the opposite.
You really seem to be missing my point with these posts. I'm not even sure what you mean by the paragraph that ends with "It's a subtle difference, I know, but in terms of roleplaying, pretty big I would think." Are you saying you're balancing mechanics with role playing? Because that really doesn't work. Otherwise, you're still giving the 5 RP allowance for abilities, they should balance out fairly.
"If you're evaluating them on an RP for Reward basis..." What? Choosing them based on an RP for reward basis is exactly what you've set up by giving 5 RP to be split between these abilities, what else do we pick abilities based off of?
Attitude shift- Yes I know how people react to stuff being weird, my question is what the "-2, +1, etc..." actually are mechanically to represent that altered treatment. Are they flat diplomacy modifiers? Are they shifts up and down the starting attitude spectrum? Do you know? Or is that left to the GM?
Upgrades- These are equivalents to established races you've built with the express intention of them being "better" for their more hostile environment. That is the definition of an upgrade. None of us asked for these to be more powerful than what's already available. Please tone it down, I'd prefer not to be stuck with races I don't like as my only options.
Finally, I remember why I stopped playing this game. Lack of vision. Enjoy the vanilla.
Not gonna waste my time dealing with this for weeks on end when clearly most of you just want a normal game with plain races, plain monsters, on a cheerfully forested world with larger than average lizards, super kitties, sexy psychic amazons and talking ants.
I wish you all happy hunting on Castrovel :), and, aeryk, thanks for letting me stretch my imagination a bit.
@william Nightmoon: good luck with your ideas, man, drow are a tricky but fun concept to toy with ;)
@Green Smashomancer: no hard feelings, man, just not vibing with you and some of the others it seems. sorry to offend :/
And I am out.
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*munches popcorn and waits for all the details to be hammered out*
Don't mind me, I know nothing about race or world building, except that IMO, you should just keep its complexity at the level you're comfortable with. You're not going to get everyone happy, no matter what you do, so you should just keep yourself happy, since at the end of the day, you're the one running.
@Green Smashomancer: no hard feelings, man, just not vibing with you and some of the others it seems. sorry to offend :/
No offense here.
... Did I miss something important? I check back here and there's like a ton more posts! D:
I guess not. I'll be able to get my thoughts about my character together tomorrow. On a slight time crunch now.
Edit: I think she'd work well under Ombudsman, for what that's worth.
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Okay, I have found that finding the medium between drow and elf is harder than I thought... I could always remove the spell resistance and keep the spell-like abilities... then use remaining RP to create a unique ability...
Could I get some feedback, my current version of the half drown stands at 15 points, and is a drow in most aspects save for the shorter darkvision, and basic setup.
Another thing I could change is the spell-like abilities. I could always just tone it down to 1 or 2 instead of 3...
I have a couple suggestions.
6 + level worth of SR is functionally useless for you, and aside from that, SR applies to minor things like Cure spells other party members might try to use on you. You can lower it as a standard action, but not while you're unconscious. Id definitely replace this. Maybe a 2 point survival and Know. Geography bonus? It was mentioned Half-drow are shunned. A bonus to these skills would represent selfsufficiency I think.
(>_>)
(<_<)
Did we scared away our DM?
Nah. I think there's just a lot of other things going on during the recruitment process. Like looking over applicants and settling on what they want to do.
(^_^)
For 'classes', I've what i think is a neat combat sort of character. A variation on the Suny Monk/Ninja (Basically a tweak of feat, weapon and combat style.
As for personality? I was thinking of a Golarion Elf in Kyonin's court.
Wishin' every one all'a very bestest!
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Hey, everyone. Still here, just shifting gears back to standard elven subraces. I'll try to post something soon. In the meantime keep the conversation going. Character, type of game, etc. Thanks
A little late for that.
I'll have a blurb about my character up in a few hours. I think this'll be fun.
So here's the rules-less part I have. Well, maybe not the first name.
Of course, she's also universally regarded as the driest stick-in-the-mud with-in a mile for the same reasons. She's lived a fairly lonesome life because of the habit of keeping others out with this behavior. If this gets to her though, she hasn't let it show to anyone.
She knows this to some degree even if she doesn't say so, on the rare occasion she can participate in festivities, or even a good prank, she'll happily leverage her dour visage for an advantage.
I'm thinking she'd be from a noble house? Perhaps a prestigious one? Certainly something well off. As for the mechanics, I'd use the destruction sphere. This'll get me a ranged Cold spell at level 1, and I'm strongly considering grabbing the Crystal blast as an on-theme alternate. Or the. Later I'll probably grab an ability or two from the enhancement sphere.
Also hitting stuff. Oracle of Battle is a strong contender for me, and the reason I'd like to know if I can grab a crystalline sword instead of a wooden sword. Ironwood is alright enough, but I'll feel like I'm using a toy.
Edit: It can even just be functionally identical to a regular one not necessarily like the crystal weapon material for effects.
I'm also into the idea of explorations, and perhaps rolling for stats? I think a method to generate high stats would be more fun. I could be biased though, I want an excuse to give a high int and cha to my character, even if Int does almost nothing.
Edit x2: Of course, everyone's free to look over my character and tell me what they think. If you do, I only ask you be honest. What's everyone think of intertwining our characters together to a degree?
So here's the rules-less part I have. Well, maybe not the first name.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm thinking she'd be from a noble house? Perhaps a prestigious one? Certainly something well off. As for the mechanics, I'd use the destruction sphere. This'll get me a ranged Cold spell at level 1, and I'm strongly considering grabbing the Crystal blast as an on-theme alternate. Or the. Later I'll probably grab an ability or two from the enhancement sphere.
Also hitting stuff. Oracle of Battle is a strong contender for me, and the reason I'd like to know if I can grab a crystalline sword instead of a wooden sword. Ironwood is alright enough, but I'll feel like I'm using a toy.
Edit: It can even just be functionally identical to a regular one not necessarily like the crystal weapon material for effects.
I'm also into the idea of explorations, and perhaps rolling for stats? I think a method to generate high stats would be more fun. I could...
I actually HAVE an elven ley line guardian witch named Ebrietas, (Daughter of the Cosmos).
Dammit, even the same reference... welp, Im not settled on the first name anyway.
Dammit, even the same reference... welp, Im not settled on the first name anyway.
Hehe! Hey bloodborne is awesome, nothing wrong with drawing inspiration from the same source!
Bloodborne is awesome. It even inspired me to finally get a campaign off the ground that I'd wanted to run for a few years beforehand.
I just, gah. Good elf names are hard for me, because I have this rule with mine, where I try to keep first names short and easy to remember. Elves do not comply often.
*Googles "Elf name generator"*
Here is Whymsle Gnackle this is the alias of Gnomezrule's submission.
I took the animal caller and arcane healer archetypes the animal caller felt right for a gnome whose early childhood was living in a forest treehouse city. Arcane healer because extra channeling just seems wise.
That'd be the one I used. See, it does give good elf names, but I need to find that cross-section of good elf names and my kind of names to be happy. Think I've got something at least.
Edit: I'll probably have an Alias ready to go tomorrow.
Well, here she is, I'll get some sparse backstory up for, the mechanical bits are gonna be left out for now, till we know what the build rules are gonna be anyway.
..uh... is this thing on? *Taps mic*