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So I've been running around theorycrafting a bit, and something I've come up with something I want to run by some people, see if it is workable.
So I have a white-mage Archanist with Lunging Spell touch basically as a way to extend the range of my Emergency heals. But, what if I could extend that farther. Would it be feasable to make a touch-spell attacking caster?
For just one example, let's take a Grippli with Agile tongue (the feat that lets him deliver touch attacks at 10 ft.) Make him an Abberation sorcerer (at level 3 touch attacks +5 ft), and at level 7 pick up lunging spell touch, and bam, 20 ft. range with your tongue.
I'd love to do something with this, but I lack an encyclopedic knowledge of what touch spells this would work well with this build, or if this build is even something worth considering. Anyone out there have any ideas?
This seems like a really convoluted and crappy way to use the Reach Spell Metamagic.
There are some really good Touch spells though, so if the +1 spell level hurts too much, this wouldn't be TOO bad I guess.
Stuff like Touch of Slime might be nasty.
Personally, I'd go with the a rod of lesser reach. 3\day you can turn a touch spell to close range, all for 3k!
If you have access to a grippli though, the sheer flavor of agile tongue is worth taking the option. Plus, then you can save your rod for those times 10ft of reach doesn't cut it.
The easiest spell this would work with is shocking grasp, IMO. Spell specialization, blue draconic sorcerer, maybe a varisian tattoo, and you've got +3 caster level and you add +1\die rolled!
slightly off topic, but isn't lunging touch spell redundant (as a feat not for your build which i like)? as far as i can tell, nothing stops the regular lunge feat from working with touch attacks...
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slightly off topic, but isn't lunging touch spell redundant (as a feat not for your build which i like)? as far as i can tell, nothing stops the regular lunge feat from working with touch attacks...
Lunge requires a BAB of six, which a full caster (wizard/sorc) gets at level 12. Lunging spell touch only requires a spellcraft of 6, meaning they can get it at 7.
To all those that say "Get reach metamagic" here's the thinking.
1) a rod only works 3/day for level 3 or lower spells. (Or I have to get the more expensive rod)
2) Using a rod (or a feat) for a spontaneous caster is ALWAYS a full-round action (look it up).
3) This makes ALL of my touch attacks touch up to 20 feet away at level 7
ah true... somehow i ignored that BAB requirement when i was looking at it.
For a grippli I'd consider a cleric or druid (edit: or shaman) rather than a sorcerer - less reach, true, but wis-based (grippli get +2 Wis), more touch range spells, 3/4 BAB, able to extend the range a little further with a rod of reach spell without making it a full round action. Also your GM would have to be a pain to even consider it but the aberrant sorcerer ability is named long limbs.
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For a grippli I'd consider a cleric or druid (edit: or shaman) rather than a sorcerer - less reach, true, but wis-based (grippli get +2 Wis), more touch range spells, 3/4 BAB, able to extend the range a little further with a rod of reach spell without making it a full round action. Also your GM would have to be a pain to even consider it but the aberrant sorcerer ability is named long limbs.
The idea I had was cross-blooded Emperyal/Abborant, so I can have Wis as my casting stat. Just a thought.
For a grippli I'd consider a cleric or druid (edit: or shaman) rather than a sorcerer - less reach, true, but wis-based (grippli get +2 Wis), more touch range spells, 3/4 BAB, able to extend the range a little further with a rod of reach spell without making it a full round action. Also your GM would have to be a pain to even consider it but the aberrant sorcerer ability is named long limbs.The idea I had was cross-blooded Emperyal/Abborant, so I can have Wis as my casting stat. Just a thought.
Keep in mind you'll still have 1/2 BAB. I don't know how much of a difference that makes, but it can be rather awry sometimes.
Cross-blooded and wildblooded (i.e. Empyreal) don't technically stack, and crossblooded sorc puts you a full spell level behind cleric, druid or shaman.
Shaman, just off the class list and before spirits or the arcane enlightenment hex, gives you chill touch, frostbite, touch of blindness, frigid touch, touch of bloodletting, bestow curse, stricken heart & irregular size on <= 3rd level spells. This should be a sufficient toolkit to start with - especially since you can pick any of them at the start of the day without having to deal with the painful spells known of a crossblooded sorcerer.
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Cross-blooded and wildblooded (i.e. Empyreal) don't technically stack, and crossblooded sorc puts you a full spell level behind cleric, druid or shaman.
Shaman, just off the class list and before spirits or the arcane enlightenment hex, gives you chill touch, frostbite, touch of blindness, frigid touch, touch of bloodletting, bestow curse, stricken heart & irregular size on <= 3rd level spells. This should be a sufficient toolkit to start with - especially since you can pick any of them at the start of the day without having to deal with the painful spells known of a crossblooded sorcerer.
Good point, on the other hand, I don't know of any Shaman abilities that would give me an extra 5 feet of reach like the Abberant bloodline does (at 8th level a wood shaman gives me the ability to get a slam attack at an extra 5 feet, but it is explicitly stated to be hand-based). Plus I already have a PFS shaman, and I like experimenting around with new characters. Still, the lack of a Spell selection per level is pretty dissuading.
Hmm, not working out as well as I had hoped.
for 15 CHA and two feats you can get long limbs via (improved) eldritch heritage.
On a sidenote: reach spell is my most used metamagic feat, and the fullround action has never mattered to me (I have not much use for move actions). I agree that having reach is worthwhile, but I wouldn't go as far as some suggestions above which cost more than the single metamagic feat.
Keep in mind, that full round casting makes you vulnerable to being interrupted, as it takes place right before the beginning of the next turn.
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By 7th level, you have more than enough spell slots to use metamagic. Get Reach Spell. The full round action casting is almost never a hindrance, especially when you can keep bumping up the range with another spell level as needed. All three of my oracles use it for communal spells, no reason you can't use it for offensive spells too.
Keep in mind, that full round casting makes you vulnerable to being interrupted, as it takes place right before the beginning of the next turn.
This is a common misperception. What you say is true of 1 round casting times (Dominate Person, Summon Monster), but not full round casting times from spontaneous metamagic. The latter burns your standard action and move action, but then happens and can't be interrupted except by a readied action as normal for a standard action casting time.
A touch spell upgraded with reach will be lost if your attack misses, and subject to shooting into melee penalties. A melee touch which misses (very likely when dealing with concealment or blur) you can try again next round. Move actions are very useful for pulling out that metamagic rod you are using, so you either have to always have that rod in hand, or have planned ahead to next round; not every GM is happy to put rods in spring loaded wrist sheaths. Also you can move around with your move actions to get a better shot or step out of danger instead of standing there like a chump. Just some things to consider.
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A touch spell upgraded with reach will be lost if your attack misses, and subject to shooting into melee penalties. A melee touch which misses (very likely when dealing with concealment or blur) you can try again next round. Move actions are very useful for pulling out that metamagic rod you are using, so you either have to always have that rod in hand, or have planned ahead to next round; not every GM is happy to put rods in spring loaded wrist sheaths. Also you can move around with your move actions to get a better shot or step out of danger instead of standing there like a chump. Just some things to consider.
Wow! I was going to respond with a comment but you perfectly summed it up and even brought up some points I forgot about. Anyway, yes, all of those reasons were why I was considering this build. Another thing is that it just isn't some cookie-cutter build, it is a build that uses unique mechanics to do something that you don't see too often. That's why I wanted to try it out.
Here's the issues:
Build as abboratiion sorc:
Pros: 15 foot reach at lvl 3, 20 At lvl 7, lots of nasty touch spells.
Cons: grippli don't get bonuses to chr, low BAB and HP.
Build as druid:
Pros: grippli bonus to wis, higher HP and AC, can wear armor.
Cons: only 10 ft reach until lvl 7, not as many good touch spells.
Shaman build:
Pros: grippli bonus to wis, good touch spells, can wear armor
Cons: 10 ft reach until lvl 7
You might consider that you can Sorcerer with 16 CHA quite comfortably if your offensive spells are the touch kind. Many touch spells don't require saving throws such as shocking grasp, frigid touch, Scorching ray, Polar ray, stricken heart, Vampiric Touch.
For the rest, buffs are fine. Haste, false life and enlarge person don't care about your CHA. You can be quite confident without that racial bonus. Later on you get a heap of headbands and buffs anyways so who cares about +1. Play whatever race/class combo seems fun. You can't let races be class locked over a +1 modifier bonus.
Also, touch spells aren't really hurt that much by low BAB. CR 8 Gorgon has touch AC 9. CR12 Green Dragon has 8. CR 17 Gristly Demodand has touch AC16. Sure, a quickling might be hard to hit but how many of those do you fight really?
Sounds like the spectral hand spell.
I have been wanting to make a 'bad lick' grippli cleric for a while now. Just waiting for the right game....
I don't think you really need more than the 10' reach if you have a chassis like cleric with some armor etc. For an arcanist, wizard or sorcerer I could see wanting a 15' reach, but I probably wouldn't worry about more than that (and I would make sure I had some spells available for foes that I didn't want to get that close to).
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You might consider that you can Sorcerer with 16 CHA quite comfortably if your offensive spells are the touch kind. Many touch spells don't require saving throws such as shocking grasp, frigid touch, Scorching ray, Polar ray, stricken heart, Vampiric Touch.
For the rest, buffs are fine. Haste, false life and enlarge person don't care about your CHA. You can be quite confident without that racial bonus. Later on you get a heap of headbands and buffs anyways so who cares about +1. Play whatever race/class combo seems fun. You can't let races be class locked over a +1 modifier bonus.
Also, touch spells aren't really hurt that much by low BAB. CR 8 Gorgon has touch AC 9. CR12 Green Dragon has 8. CR 17 Gristly Demodand has touch AC16. Sure, a quickling might be hard to hit but how many of those do you fight really?
Well, you've convinced me.
Str:8, dex:16, con: 12, Int: 14, wis:10, Chr: 16Ectoplasmic bloodline sorc
Level 1 feat: agile tongue
Level 3: weapon finesse (for the ranged touch attacks)
Level 5: (????). (Expanded arcana?)
Level 7: lunging spell touch.
Spells: chill touch, shocking grasp, frigid tounch, etc.
I've always loved the idea of a Cleric who summoned creatures and used Planeshift as a weapon - at 5th level it really is the ultimate save or suck spell and with Magical Lineage/Reach/Spell Perfection options available, it really opens the doors there...
My witch [cartomancer] will be able to deliver touch spells from range at 3rd. It's a nice archetype.