Elven Eldritch Guardian
Str 12
Dex 16 (+2)
Con 15 (-2)
Int 8 (+2)
Wis 13
Cha 10
Fighter levels are all Eldritch Guardian
Witch is Beast Bonded Witch
1st
Fighter 1
Familiar, Point-blank Shot (1st)
2nd
Fighter 2
Share Training, Steel Will
3rd
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Precise Shot (3rd)
4th
Fighter 4
Deadly Aim (Fighter 4)
5th
Fighter 5
Weapon Training, Improved Familiar (5th)
6th
Fighter 6
Steel Will +2, Weapon Focus: Longbow (Fighter 6)
7th
Fighter 7
Armor Training, Weapon Specialization: Longbow (7th)
8th
Fighter 8
Rapid Shot (Fighter 8)
9th
Fighter 9
Weapon Training, Point Blank Master(9th)
10th
Fighter 10
Steel Will +3, Snap Shot (Fighter 10)
11th
Witch 1
Cantrips, Hex: Ward, Patron Spells, Witch's Familiar, Transfer Feats, Extra Item Slot (11th)
12th
Witch 2
Hex: Feral Speech
This is for PFS play.
The concept is for a very fey/sylvan elf with a brownie familiar who is also very fighty. I was considering making them both switch hitters as I can make them both fairly durable, but I couldn't afford to get the feats for any of the X Grace feats and still be passable at archery. I should be able to hook that Brownie up with some pimp gear. Mithril Chain Shirt will go a long way for the little guy. And with DR 5/Cold Iron and some passable HP due to Fighter HD with a decent Con (improved later with a belt) he should even be able to take a hit (or more likely not get hit).
By 8th level the Brownie will be doing 1d4+6 damage and will be getting 3 attacks per turn. That is before item bonuses or buffs. Most of the build speaks for itself aside from the last couple of levels. I want to be able to give the Brownie some Greater Bracers of Archery and the only way that I can figure to give him a feat is with the Beast Bonded Witch archetype. Its not so bad as by that level I will already have all the BAB that I need. The few spells will be nice. Ward is basically equivalent to Extra Item Slot for a +2 Ring of Protection and +2 Cloak of Resistance. And I get to give him an Item slot for the bracers. Feral Speech is also very in theme.
Suggestions? What traits would you take?
I do not believe you can trade out Familiar feats that they start with.
I looked at Weapon Training but didn't see much I liked. Any specific suggestions?
The Brownie needs Deadly Aim to be able to do any amount of damage or else I'd agree with the Rapid Shot bit.
|
I do not believe you can trade out Familiar feats that they start with.
Page 18 of Animal Archive states;
"Feats that are meant for familiars can be switched out for a familiar's default feats (as listed in the familiar's statistics) if the familiar meets the prerequisites. Such feat replacements must be made when the PC first acquires a new familiar, and - like all new feats from supplemental sources - the new feats should be approved by the GM before being integrated into play."
The 'additional resources' entry for Animal Archive specifically then calls out the 'Extra Item Slot' and other familiar feats on pages 18 & 19 (except for Familiar Spell) as being available... which could only be the case if they were able to swap out starting feats as described.
Oh wow. Didn't catch that. That actually helps a lot. Thanx! :D
The brownie only needs Extra Item Slot because he's in PFS, right? (just making sure there's not some magic item rule I've missed here)
Devilkiller: Yep.
I have been considering which starting feats to swap out for with the Brownie. One idea was to give him Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse and Slashing or Fencing Grace. This would allow him to take advantage of his high Dex in melee. The downside is that despite the little guy being fairly durable for a Familiar he would still have to provoke by moving into their square to attack and that just doesn't seem safe. Also, I would eventually be able to get him Point Blank Master and he can just use his bow in melee without provoking. Then I also wouldn't have to buy magic swords and bows for him.
The other idea I had was to give him Toughness (I think it still adds to Familiar HPs, right?), Endurance (to sleep in his armor) and Run or Fleet (to help shore up his poor move speed) and/or just get the Extra Item Slot feats. Outside of wrist for Bracers of Archery and foot for Boots of Haste or Striding and Springing I'm not sure what other slots he would actually need.
Ideas on which feats to swap out for the Brownie?
Deadeye Bowman is a pretty neat trait for longbow-users. I recommend it since you'll probably not be able to benefit from Improved Precise Shot.
*****
Toughness won't add to your familiar's HP, since it will always be half of the master's. So you'd have to take it yourself.
And as I'm looking at the Brownie I noticed that 2 of the 3 feats it has is Bonus feats (as indicated by the "B"). So you won't be able to switch Improved Initiative and Weapon Finesse for other feats.
*****
Now, I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the only item slots any familiar has from the start is Barding (armor) and the Neck slot. Any other slot must be bought with the Extra Item Slot feat (FAQ)
So since you'd want your familiar to have proficiency in longbows, you want to switch out Dodge for Extra Item Slot (Wrist).
The other alternative is to make your familiar take Additional Traits and pick up Heirloom weapon for proficiency. This will be cheaper than buying the Bracers.
I feel as if you're stretching your build a bit thin, with the Rapid Shot only coming in at level 9. If you are open to multiclass, then 2 or 3 levels of Zen Archer would benefit you greatly (good amount of bonus feats and better saves).
Zen Archer 1
Precise Shot (Monk 1), Perfect Strike (Monk 1), Point-blank Shot (1st)
2nd
Zen Archer 2
Rapid Shot (Monk 2), Weapon Focus (Monk 2)
3rd
Zen Archer 3
Point Blank Master (Monk), Deadly Aim (3rd)
4th
Fighter 1
Familiar
5th
Fighter 2
Share Training, Steel Will, *Feat* (5th)
6th
Fighter 3
Armor Training
7th
Fighter 4
ManyShot (Fighter 4), Snap Shot (7th)
8th
Fighter 5
Weapon Training, Retrain *Feat* (5th) to Improved Familiar or wait one level.
*****
This build would let you have your familiar with no expense at your usual combat ability. You'll gain Manyshot and Snapshot at level 7, and the only downside is that you would gain your Brownie first at level 8. You can go the Snap shot feat line with your remaining 4 levels, or simply focus on defensive/interesting feats.
You can also use your Wisdom Modifier on ranged attack rolls instead of Dexterity. If you decide to do so, then you would want to not wear armor to benefit from the Wis to AC.
Zen Archer 1
Precise Shot (Monk 1), Perfect Strike (Monk 1), Point-blank Shot (1st)
2nd
Zen Archer 2
Rapid Shot (Monk 2), Weapon Focus (Monk 2)
3rd
Fighter 1
Familiar, Deadly Aim (3rd)
4th
Fighter 2
Share Training, Steel Will
5th
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Overwatch Style (5th)
6th
Fighter 4
Overwatch Tactician (Fighter 4)
7th
Fighter 5
Improved Familiar (7th), Weapon Training
8th
Zen Archer 3
Point Blank Master (Monk)
9th
Fighter 6
Snap Shot (Fighter 6) Weapon Trick: Hindering Shot (9th)
10th
Fighter 7
Armor Training
11th
Fighter 8
Concentrated Fire (Fighter 8), *Feat* (11th)
12th
Fighter 9
Advanced Weapon Training, Retrain Feat from the 11th level to Overwatch Vortex.
*****
Making use of the synergy of the Elf's racial feat Concentrated Fire and Overwatch Style this build would allow you (and your familiar) to fire 4 readied actions per turn all at your highest BAB-2 at level 12.
And the good part is that you roll each readied attack twice and lower the Saves of your enemies by 4 if you hit and damage your target.
The key feats of this build is Concentrated Fire, Overwatch Style and Weapon Trick: Hindering Shot.
Alright, I'm resurrecting this thread because I am likely going to make this character now. So, I might as well answer the last couple of posts before I get to what I have come up with for a build.
Wonderstell:
Deadeye Bowman: Nice catch. I will likely go with that. :)
Toughness: Unfortunately, I think I'm too feat starved to fit it in which is ironic seeing as I am going with a full Fighter build. Also, pretty odd for me to go for a full single class build even for a martial character. Still, it is what fits the build here.
Brownie Feats: Yep. I will only be switching out a single feat to allow the little guy to get Extra Item Slot. I am a bit torn between Belt slot (Dex belt) and Wrist slot (Bracers of Archery).
I don't need to worry about the Brownie getting proficiency. He will get it automatically from my Eldritch Guardian's Share Training ability.
Markov Spiked Chain:
Yep. Thanks for chiming in with that.
Wonderstell... again:
Well, regarding saves the Eldritch Guardian comes out ahead of standard Fighter with Steel Will being a far better version of Bravery. It might as well be a progressive Will save bonus. Fighter has a good Fort save and with a Dex that I plan on improving frequently Reflex shouldn't be too bad either.
Regarding your first build that has Improved Familiar not coming available until 8th character level. As the Brownie is the entire point of this build that is definitely out. Plus, Monk doesn't progress your Familiar at all. I also do not plan on getting Manyshot at all. And having Wis to damage doesn't help the concept at all as I do not plan on having a high Wis.
Your second build has the same issue.
However, you are onto something with this "Concentrated Fire, Overwatch Style and Weapon Trick: Hindering Shot" combo. I like it! :)
Contributor
|
Just a quick note: don't forget that Deadeye Bowman is a Religion trait for worshipers of Erastil. This may make it difficult to get a brownie familiar (who requires a neutral master), since you'd have to be within one step of Erastil's lawful good alignment.
|
Contributor
|
Also, before you trade out your familiar's Improved Initiative: if your familiar acts as a combat creature (and not just a passive buff), you'll be rolling initiative separately for it at my table. Same for animal companions, eidolons, and other companion creatures (with the exception of mounts).
So. Here are my ideas for the build. The first one is basically the same as the one posted in my first post with the exception of the removal of the Witch levels. There is no longer a need to take them as I can get Extra Item Slot on my Brownie just by swapping out his starting feats.
So basically I would switch out those levels and add on some extra archery feats. I would probably tack on Improved and Greater Snap Shot.
For either build I would be going with the following retooled stat array:
Str 14
Dex 16 (+2)
Con 14 (-2)
Int 8 (+2)
Wis 12
Cha 10
The other build is as follows:
1st
Fighter 1
Familiar, Point-blank Shot (1st)
2nd
Fighter 2
Share Training, Steel Will
3rd
Fighter 3
Armor Training, Precise Shot (3rd)
4th
Fighter 4
Deadly Aim (Fighter 4)
5th
Fighter 5
Weapon Training, Improved Familiar (5th)
6th
Fighter 6
Steel Will +2, Rapid Shot (Fighter 6)
7th
Fighter 7
Armor Training, Weapon Focus: Longbow (7th)
8th
Fighter 8
Overwatch Style (Fighter 8)
9th
Fighter 9
Weapon Training: Trained Initiative, Concentrated Fire (9th)
10th
Fighter 10
Steel Will +3, Overwatch Tactician (Fighter 10)
11th
Fighter 11
Overwatch Vortex (11th)
12th
Fighter 12
Hindering Shot (Fighter 12)
For this build I would be taking the Disinterested Observer racial trait instead of Elven Magic and Weapon Familiarity since I wont benefit from either of those. Hindering Shot didn't seem overly important as I will not be triggering saves much myself and it will be a largely situational bonus. Actually, I was considering taking it out entirely.
On either build I would likely be taking Deadeye Bowman as Wonderstell suggested and probably Reactionary on at least the second build if not both.
Also, as this is for PFS and you cannot buy Tiny sized weapons I will end up having to buy Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers at least once for the Brownie's bow (thank you, Lorewalker, for pointing this out).
There are also some clarifications coming down the pipe soon that I am looking forward to seeing that may have some impact on my concept. To that I say: Please, Paizo gods...I implore you! I know you like to watch my posts and counter them with nerfs. Don't let me go the way of prototype00. Don't nerf my concepts into oblivion. I beg of thee!
So... unless this gets pounded into oblivion with a nerf hammer, which build do you guys like more? Which do you think I will have more fun with? The second one seems like it would be situationally better but dependent on readied actions triggering. I can probably get pretty good with that but sometimes it is better to just spray arrows and kill as many things as you can. That would make the first build better.
Is there anything you think I'm missing? I've been entertained watching this thread to look for some good items I may have missed. Any issues or areas of concern? Things to look out for in PFS? I saw that they just allowed the purchasing of ammunition of other types from chronicle sheets... that is a nice plus. :)
The good news: You got 3 more feat slots to fill.
The bad news:
Feats: All feats in the book are legal for play with the following exceptions: Ascetic Form, Ascetic Strike, Ascetic Style, Burrowing Shot, Dwarven Fury, Dwarven Seething, Orc Fury, Orc Rampage, Orc Snarl, Overwatch Style, Overwatch Tactician, Overwatch Vortex, Smash from the Air.
Kalindlara: I was going to check it out on Archives of Nethys. Thank you for saving me the work. I have learned my lesson on sourcing those traits. ;)
And yeah, I know about the initiative thing. I'm not sure if I want Paizo to make a ruling on that or not as I think it could be something better left in the DM's hands. However, to date, you are the only one who has ruled that way at a table I have played at. Ever. Even dating back to 3.x. Well... actually before that too. I don't slight you for making that judgement. In fact, you are not only within your rights to do so but I think you are likely correct within RAW. But for myself and likely the other DMs I have played under they choose to ignore that rule due to record keeping.
Either way, I am prepared to play within either interpretation. I am, however, curious as to why you make an exception for mounts? I assume that it is for the same record keeping issue previously mentioned? ...what if I have my Familiar "ride" my character? hehe Either way, I think it is better to give him Extra Item Slot rather than Improved Initiative. If I give him a Dex belt he would mitigate the loss in initiative that way and also pick up more AC and attack bonus.
By the way, I should mention that this character will likely be playing alongside my son's new Grippli character. (thanks, Kalindlara!) He decided to make it a ninja (Urogue/Hunter mix) riding a Giant Chameleon. He plans on only taking 5 levels of Urogue to pick up the Dex to damage and wanted to go deep enough to get the skill unlocks and get to 3d6 sneak attack. Boon Companion will help keep up the Animal Companion for all but one of his levels. He will be going with Knife Master, River Rat and Blade of the Society. He also wants to pick up Accomplished Sneak Attacker and TWF with daggers. When mounted he will have a constant flanking buddy with Outflank and Pack Flanking. He plans on getting Skill Focus: Stealth on his Animal Companion and some Shadow Barding. He should make for an interesting scout.
I had a few concepts ready to go. I was considering a Halfling Slipslinger that I have been meaning to play for a while now. I also have a Shelyn worshiping Glaive user with the Bladed Brush, Spear Dancing Style, Slashing Grace and Crane Style that I have been considering. Very Matrim Cauthon themed there. But I decided to go with this one and have us both be from the Mwangi Expanse. I plan on playing my character(s) like a pair of sylvan bruhs. Lots of high fiving, in-jokes, secret handshakes, healthy male comradery and victory dances.
Wonderstell: Son of a b@#+*! How did I miss that those feats were banninated? Hell, this is a preemptive retaliatory strike on Paizo's part. See! I told you they are after me!
Well, I guess that makes my build choice easy, huh?
Gr. I think you are the mole!
Hm. Actually, maybe you are also a target considering I think you had a hand in the Bladed Brush bit. I'd think that Alexander Agunas was the mole but he also had a hand in much of my content of my concepts. I doubt you guys don't want us using the stuff you helped design. Hrmph. What gives?!
Maybe there is some hope in this sentence:
Several options in this book are being withheld to appear on Chronicle sheets.
Though I wrote for that book, I didn't have anything to do with Bladed Brush. I'm as sad as anyone to see it disallowed.
As for potential Chronicle unlocks... never say never, I suppose. That said, of all the disallowed options, I feel most confident in theorizing that Bladed Brush was disallowed for power-level reasons. The same goes for the Guided Star feat and the stargazer prestige class (which I did write).
Yeah. I saw that. So they are after you with the nerf hammer too.
The obvious way around this is to just run home games. So.... when are you starting a home game? ;)
I am off to find someone to yell at about this...
So, my sleep addled brain remembered this line over night:
You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis (lawful through chaotic, good through evil).
And since a Brownie's alignment is N I could still be LG, worship Erastil and take Deadeye Bowman. In fact, I believe you can be one step off from your deity so I could probably be NG or LN and still pick it up. Though I'm leaning more towards NG.
A 5th-level neutral spellcaster with the Improved Familiar feat can gain a brownie as a familiar.
Well, you obviously edited that into the site. It clearly wasn't there before.
Hm. Actually, I'm thinking about which axis that is referring to or if it means both. It could mean only one of the axis in which case it isn't a case of specific overriding general, just reinforcing the general rule regarding Improved Familiars.
In other words a NG character is still Neutral to some degree. Welp... might as well make a post about it in the rules forum to see if I can get anyone to argue about it. ;)
Kris Verschaeve: Hm. That does look good.
FYI - Conversation on whether an Erastil worshipper can select a Brownie Improved Familiar is going on here.