Hey, I want to build a character who drags around a siege engine or two, and uses them as his primary combat method. I know this isn't exactly a good tactic, but it sounds like a good time to me, so I was wondering if anyone has any insight towards building the character.
I was considering building him as a Siege Mage/Siege Gunner, but after looking at them for a bit, I'm kind of at a loss for why I wouldn't want to go full Siege Gunner. The only advantage I see to the Mage is that at level 10 they can control an engine without a crew, but then I'm not going to be able to take greater Vital Strike, for lack of BAB.
Any advice?
a wizard can also store huge machines much better and move them by levitating, etc
Otherwise, on a realted note, look at Artillery Team
Siege engines don't use a regular attack action, if I recall correctly, so no Vital Strike. Rule of thumb: if you think you've found a new way to make Vital Strike useful, it's probably cheating.
I couldn't find anything saying siege engines don't use a normal attack action. Of course, I could very well be wrong, I just can't find where that would be.
I couldn't find anything saying siege engines don't use a normal attack action. Of course, I could very well be wrong, I just can't find where that would be.
They take 2d4 rounds to use and require a skill check, which is well outside the attack action. Even other specific standard action attack options, charges, and AoOs don't work with Vital Strike, and this is much further out.
That says to disable, not to fire.
"Siege engines are treated as difficult devices if someone tries to disable them using Disable Device. This takes 2d4 rounds and requires a DC 20 disable Device check. "
That says to disable, not to fire.
"Siege engines are treated as difficult devices if someone tries to disable them using Disable Device. This takes 2d4 rounds and requires a DC 20 disable Device check. "
Whoops, misread. It's weapon-by-weapon, then. Ballistae with are explicitly just oversized crossbows, whereas catapults use a special check rather than an attack roll, and rams use a full-round action.
Alright, after combing the page, I found this:
"Direct-Fire Ranged Siege Engines: Direct-fire weapons launch their projectiles on a relatively flat trajectory, allowing them to more easily target creatures or pummel barriers directly in front of them. A direct-fire weapon uses a normal attack roll, with the normal penalty for nonproficient use."
Which says to me that Siege engines like Ballista CAN be used with vital strike, since they use a normal attack roll, but non-direct-fire Siege Engines, such as catapults, can not.
Edit: Whoops, didn't see that you'd said something.
Anyways, now that that's out of the way, anyone have suggestions on how to actually build this ballista-firing character?
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Siege engines don't use a regular attack action, if I recall correctly, so no Vital Strike. Rule of thumb: if you think you've found a new way to make Vital Strike useful, it's probably cheating.
That's a bold statement and is simply not true. I can think of half-a-dozen ways that vital strike are already of useful.
Siege engines don't use a regular attack action, if I recall correctly, so no Vital Strike. Rule of thumb: if you think you've found a new way to make Vital Strike useful, it's probably cheating.That's a bold statement and is simply not true. I can think of half-a-dozen ways that vital strike are already of useful.
Personal experience is that more than half the threads with a new Vital Strike trick missed something. This time, I missed something and it works fine with a ballista.
As for stuff to take, Precise Shot is a good idea if you can't guarantee long-range sniping. Weapon Focus will help mitigate your poor BAB if you can spare the feat.
The question's more of, should I bother with Siege Mage at all, or just abandon it and go full Gunslinger(Siege Gunner)?
By my figuring, the only real use for Siege Mage is being able to remotely control a Siege Engine without the crew, but you can't do that until level 10. By my calculations, if you do that route, you're unable to get Greater Vital Strike until level 21, which I think we can all agree is far too late.
Or I could go full Gunslinger, and reap the full benefit of Deeds with something like a cannon, with the downside of having to stay directly with the Engine, as opposed to 30 feet away.
The question's more of, should I bother with Siege Mage at all, or just abandon it and go full Gunslinger(Siege Gunner)?
Siege Mage is terrible. Its class features are completely useless. The only one that looks good even on paper is the ability to control a siege engine without a crew at 10th level, but the niggling detail is that the Unseen Servant spell is gained by Wizards at the 1st level, creating a servant that lasts for hours/level and capable of performing untrained tasks (like crewing siege engines).
One interesting approach may be Eldritch Knight. This would let you take levels in both Wizard and Gunslinger without crippling either your BAB or caster level in the long run.
The only issue with the Eldritch Knight route is that the class features are what you want more than the BAB, since you'll only ever get one shot off per attack. The spell level increase is nice, but if you're doing that, you may as well just go Siege Mage 10/ Siege Gunner 10 for 15 BAB and the ability to operate any siege engine without a crew, at range.
Sounds like just going straight Siege Gunner is the better decision.
Except Siege Mage gets the Siege Engineer at 1st level, which is much sooner than anyone else.
The other thing about unseen servant is that a lot of siege engines need more than one extra hand to operate, especially when you get to the larger engines, which adds some merit to the Siege Engine bond, I feel.
Assuming that there's no special skills required to act as siege engine crew - are there? - then the Unseen Crew spell should work. Available at wizard level 9, lasts 1 day/level.