Level 20 campaign with monsters allowed. A player wants to be a lycanthrope and I might use some help.
Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher.
+2STR/CON while in hybrid/animal form is quite unclear: in the Werebear example it suggests that the bonusses are first added to humanoid form and then you take the best between humanoid and animal.In the Werewolf example looks like they first made the comparison, chose wolf's CON over human's and then added the bonus.
Which one is the right way?Score gained by levels and reading manuals only increases the base creature scores right?
e.g. when choosing the best stat after going hybrid, base animal score would never be considered x+5(manual)+5(lv4,8,12,16,20), right?
Does a lycanthrope qualify for arcane strike?
How many class levels would a lv20 lycanthrope have? 19 or 20?
Since the template is just +1CR and gives no racial HD I think it should have no malus at such a high level.
What do you think?
Thanks,
Frankie Boy
Is he playing a werebear or a lycanthrope? If lycanthrope, go by its rules, not the werebear.
Lycanthrope doesn't automatically qualify for arcane strike.
For CR+1 templates, the rules come out to a full 20 class levels. For the full explanation of why, you essentially get free levels now and again and the offset for CR 1 just isn't that big. I have a full table at home I could show you that all these offsets and free levels factored in.
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For starters, full rules for lycanthropy added to PCs is found in bestiary 1, page 196. It is a CR+1 template. The linked stats are for a sample versions found in bestiary 2.
Regarding player characters, the page on bestiary 1 suggests:
Lycanthropic Player Characters
When a PC becomes a lycanthrope, you as the GM have a choice
to make. In most cases, you should take control of the PC’s
actions whenever he is in hybrid or animal form—lycanthropy
shouldn’t be a method to increase a PC’s power, after all, and
what an afflicted lycanthrope does while in animal or hybrid
form is often at odds with what the character would actually
want. If a player wants to play a lycanthrope, he should play a
natural lycanthrope and follow the guidelines on page 313 for
playing a character of a powerful race.
The page 313 suggests that the player playing the monster should have a CR no higher than the level of the party. So you'd ignore the template and use one of the linked sample creatures as the base character. Then use their CR as a level adjustment. As d20pfsrd notes, the listed CR for the sample creatures is wrong.
Never really been a fan of the level adjustment system. In this case, I'd prefer to just deny the PC control of their own character during the transformations. Very fluffy, and it allows you to balance it as needed on the fly.
In alternative, you could include NPC werewolf hunters that appeared as random encounters and didn't award XP for their defeat. Consider it a trade off.
Granted, this is what I'd do with a PC that was *choosing* to play a lycanthrope as per the template. I would definitely explain my choice while they were creating the character.
If the character became inflicted with lycanthropy during a session or as a deliberate part of the campaign, I would definitely address this differently. I would probably not penalize the player at all if it came up in a random encounter, as it was my choice to allow the lycanthrope into the session in the first place. I could always re-roll the encounter...
I very much prefer the skinwalker race option. Much easier to add to a campaign.
Is he playing a werebear or a lycanthrope? If lycanthrope, go by its rules, not the werebear.
For starters, full rules for lycanthropy added to PCs is found in bestiary 1, page 196. It is a CR+1 template. The linked stats are for a sample versions found in bestiary 2.
I already read the lycanthropy template and since the +2 STR/CON wasn't clear i looked up at the samples in bestiary2, which didn't make clarity at all given that their transformation seems to follow different rules.
So my question still stands: does said bonus apply on the base creature before comparing his stats to the base animal ones or does it apply on the character after that decision?Anyway that's just for personal knowledge since, working only at low levels, it doesn't really affect our campaign. At lv 20 the character is stronger that the animal so being a lycanthrope only gives him natural attacks and a tough look.
Also, he has a Lich mage and a Vampire sorcerer among the mates. He can safely be a natural lycan, no need to give him the "afflicted" maluses.
Regarding the Skinwalker.
This pg was born as a Barbarian Skinwalker (ragebred for the rage powers related to natural attacks) but half of our group is not very proficient in English. To be fair to everyone, we are only using material published in Italian so that no one has access to more books than others. Therefore Skinwalker is not an option.
P.S. Lycanthropes can be of any allignement.
what attracts this player to being a lycanthrope? is it the curse? the power? the shape changing?
I'd say its the chance to play something non-standard.
If you want an interesting way to waste time, grab a book of templates, flick to a random page and consider just how cool it'd be to play a character with that template.Imagine all the fun you could have playing a creature that changes its nature with the seasons, or an escaped experiment with the head of a moose, or even just a basic dude that's been touched by the fey.
If its good enough for random monsters, why shouldn't it be good enough for the PCs? And why should they have to pay through the nose when the GM can just slap a template on a monster and call it a day?
what attracts this player to being a lycanthrope? is it the curse? the power? the shape changing?I'd say its the chance to play something non-standard.
If you want an interesting way to waste time, grab a book of templates, flick to a random page and consider just how cool it'd be to play a character with that template.Imagine all the fun you could have playing a creature that changes its nature with the seasons, or an escaped experiment with the head of a moose, or even just a basic dude that's been touched by the fey.
If its good enough for random monsters, why shouldn't it be good enough for the PCs? And why should they have to pay through the nose when the GM can just slap a template on a monster and call it a day?
Plague spreader Antipaladin Worm that Walks :Q___
My personal favourite is playing a rogue/assassin doppelganger. I know it's not a template but it's so awesome to role 10 different characters yet never the real one.
Point is: monster characters are so fun to play.
being touched by the fey is a template? >.>
does said bonus apply on the base creature before comparing his stats to the base animal ones or does it apply on the character after that decision?
In humanoid form, his ability scores have only the wisdom and charisma modifiers. In hybrid or animal form, they get the strength and constitution bonuses.
In addition to these adjustments to the
base creature’s stats, a lycanthrope’s ability scores change
when he assumes hybrid or animal form.
The +2 to str, con, and wis and the -2 to cha should apply to the base creature's stats and they should be overwritten by the base animal's stats if they are higher.
So, the werewolf entry is in error and its con score should be 16 not 17. As an aside, the werebear entry is also in error and should have a dex of 17 from the base creature of a young grizzly bear.
Letting your player be a lycanthrope at level 20 really shouldn't do too much for his power level; at that level they have far more impressive things than DR 10/silver and some natural armor. If they choose to be something like a wereT-rex however, you might want to reconsider that and make them 19th instead of 20th.
Most players go for the Were Bear because it's non evil. They have to realize that they can't use chaotic or evil spells, feats, or items. If they know something is chaotic or evil, they have to destroy it. This is mostly irresistible when the moon is full. Any other time they can work on obtaining LG weapons, filling a portable hole with holy water, ect. They are not a paladin, so they can kill baby Orcs or whatever. They won't need an atonement spell because they simply can't break alignment.
That's how I understand it. Does this in any way conflict with raw?