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Hi folks,
This is my first build, so any feedback is appreciated. Also, if I posted this in the wrong place, please let me know.
:)
I built a Hobgoblin Ranger with the following stats for starting out. I'm thinking about a switch-hitting ranger build, just so I can get a taste for ranged, melee, and a little bit of spell casting.
Thoughts? I'm sure there's a lot I need to fix.
Full Name Abel Skedz
Race Hobgoblin
Classes/Levels Ranger/1
Strength 16
Dexterity 17
Constitution 14
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 7
About Abel Skedz
HP: 13
AC: 17
Armor: Studded Leather with Armored Kilt (+4)
Primary Weapon: Long Bow
Secondary Weapon: Great Axe
Secondary Weapon: Spiked Gauntlet
Arrows: 40
Gold: 3
Armor: Studded Leather with Armored Kilt (+4)
Just nitpicking here, but considering you need gold for bows and axes, why not save the money and just get Hide Armor? Remember that kilt + studded = medium armor, so your speed is already penalized.
Rest looks good. I would consider getting an archetype since I find Favored Enemy/Hunter's Bond to not be as noob friendly as they seem. I'd recommend the Guide archetype.
Remember getting Quick Draw at level 1 and Power Attack at level 3, and spend Style Feats in archery. Rest is free for you to spend.
Well, nothing terrible. I am more interested in your plans immediately afterwards.
A sling would actually be a better starting weapon than a longbow because its so economical and still good on damage because is uses strength bonus for damage. After that getting a Masterwork Composite longbow with a strength rating would be a goal.
A great Axes is fine starting weapon. Are you going to get a Greatsword or a reach weapon? Spiked Gauntlet is a good backup weapon if you dont want to 5footstep back while using a reach weapon.
For armor that armored kilt isnt great. It buffs you armor by 1 but also slows you down. As best that is a short term solution and you get a Chainshirt or Breastplate shortly afterwards.
If you want to be a switch hitter, than Quick Draw is an important feat.
Well, you're making all the right decisions.
Ranger is the best class to take if you're a beginner. It teaches you lots of little sub-sets of rules, like bonus feats, terrain types, spellcasting, ranged and melee combat, pet control or team buffing, and monster types through favored enemy.
EDIT:
You might want to get a one-handed weapon. That way you can fight in melee without dropping you (expensive) long bow.
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Wow. Great advice from everyone.
My background is with AD&D 2e. So I guess I don't understand weapon proficiencies. I like the idea of sling in order to get strength damage. I was originally taking long bow just so I'd be trained for the composite bow with strength bonuses down the road.
So do my ranger weapon proficiencies mean I'm already trained in sling AND long bow? For longterm melee weapon I was thinking falchion, for the expanded crit range (is it as nice a weapon as it seems?).
based on what I'm hearing, what do you guys think of these options?
1: Studded leather/Falchion/Sling/Heavy Flail/Spiked Gauntlet (allows me to afford falchion and keep movement fluid)
2: Hide/Falchion/Sling/Heavy Flail/Spiked Gauntlet (Better AC, more restrictive movement, can still afford falchion)
3: Chain shirt. Great axe, sling, heavy flail, spiked gauntlet
4: Something completely different. :)
Oh, yeah, I guess I don't understand weapon swapping mechanics. So having a one handed weapon (long sword? Mace?) would be good if I use a bow?
Also, I like the guide archetype, but was kinda into having a wolf down the road. Cost/benefit thoughts?
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Armor: Studded Leather with Armored Kilt (+4)Just nitpicking here, but considering you need gold for bows and axes, why not save the money and just get Hide Armor? Remember that kilt + studded = medium armor, so your speed is already penalized.
Rest looks good. I would consider getting an archetype since I find Favored Enemy/Hunter's Bond to not be as noob friendly as they seem. I'd recommend the Guide archetype.
Remember getting Quick Draw at level 1 and Power Attack at level 3, and spend Style Feats in archery. Rest is free for you to spend.
OK. Good call. I'll dump the skirt, so to speak. I like the idea of switching out favored race for the +2 once a day, but I'm grooving on the wolf idea. No way to do both I imagine?
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As you level up, you'll want to pick up arrows that can help you get around various DRs, archers have a lot of options. Blunt arrows, cold iron arrows, and silver arrows will be stock-standard. Oils of bless weapon along with adamantine weapon blanches will help you cover some nastier DRs.
Awesome. Thanks!
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Well, you're making all the right decisions.
Ranger is the best class to take if you're a beginner. It teaches you lots of little sub-sets of rules, like bonus feats, terrain types, spellcasting, ranged and melee combat, pet control or team buffing, and monster types through favored enemy.
EDIT:
You might want to get a one-handed weapon. That way you can fight in melee without dropping you (expensive) long bow.
As per Chaos Ticket, I think I'll replace bow with sling for now and save towards a masterwork compound bow with strength bonuses. With that in mind, I imagine it's safe to drop my sling for my two hander?
Also, thoughts on proficiency? Am I essentially proficient with all simple and martial weapons as a level one ranger?Thanks!
Get some chakrams. 1 gp each, decent range, 1d8 damage. In a pinch can be used in melee. Remember it takes two hands to load a sling.
Yes you can use all simple and martial weapons fine. Feel free to swap what weapon you use whenever
For feats only the ones gained specifically under fighting style are restricted on what you can get. The ones gained through leveling and the like can be anything you meet the prerequisites for
Equipment wise try to get a buckler for your left arm
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Yes you can use all simple and martial weapons fine. Feel free to swap what weapon you use whenever
For feats only the ones gained specifically under fighting style are restricted on what you can get. The ones gained through leveling and the like can be anything you meet the prerequisites for
Equipment wise try to get a buckler for your left arm
Great. Sounds like QuickDraw is the one for level 1?
If you are a hobgoblin ranger, in addition to all the hobgoblin stuff (+2 Dex, +2 Con, darkvision, +4 Stealth, etc.) and all the ranger stuff (BAB +1, 1d10 HD, good Fortitude and Reflex saves, 6 skills, favored enemy, track, wild empathy) you get a feat.
You get a feat at 1st level, 3rd level, and every odd level.
Usually, you pick feats that make you better in combat. For example, archers often take Point Blank Shot. It gives you a bonus in close ranged combat, and is a prerequisite for a lot of other archery feats. Melee brutes often take Power Attack. It gives you a bonus to melee damage, and is a prerequisite for a lot of other melee combat feats.
The trick with rangers is: Their Combat Style bonus feats (gained at 2nd level, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th) allow you to ignore prerequisites for some feats. So if you go Archery Style for your ranger Combat Style, you can "skip" Point Blank Shot, and choose Precise Shot or Rapid Shot without meeting the normal prerequisites.
This means, if you want to be a switch-hitter, you can use your regular feats for melee stuff and your ranger Combat Style bonus feats for ranged stuff. Or vice-versa.
Or you can super-specialize at a particular way of fighting and use your regular feats (the ones you get at odd levels) and your ranger Combat Style feats to focus on the same way of fighting.
Or you can pick a Combat Style and use your regular feats to dabble in other ways of fighting, or just pick general feats that are "well rounded" and help you fight in all sorts of different ways. Or you can pick general feats that don't really help you fight, but do other things, like explore or interact socially with NPCs.
The Wolf companion is nice, but it drains from your wealth and spells to buff it. Plus, you need to spend a feat on Boon Companion to make it level adequately with your level.
Personally, I prefer to abstain from an animal companion unless I have more spells to spare like a Hunter or Druid.
The guide archetype is overall better unless you know what type of enemies you will be running into. If you know what type of enemies will be common in your campaign then stick with vanilla. Wolves make great flank buddies and are fun to have. Also if you have a nice druid in party you can start a pack and he can buff the crud out of them. In summary Guide Vs Vanilla, Guide>combat Vanilla>style
Good First Level Feat Options
Quick Draw- required for switch hitting. Got to get it eventually
Toughness- not dying is great
Power Attack- the melee feat
Point Blank Shot- the ranged feat
Weapons- use your low level to test out different weapons and see what you like. Don't get a longbow until you can afford a masterwork fully composite one. Until then, in no particular order, good options include
Chakrams- good damage, decent range, keep shield bonus, free hand
Longsword/Battleaxe/Warhammer- good damage, no melee penalties, keep sheild, free hand
Sling- free, useful outside of combat
Dagger- cheap, useful outside combat
Quarterstaff- free, nonleathal
Great Axe/Greatsword- melee DAMAGE
Glaive- reach, damage
Spiked Gauntlet- these are great for already explained reasons
Noticed you don't have a skills section. Perception, Use Magic Device, Stealth, whatever else you want
In my experience, new players like to use lots of "active" skills, like Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Stealth, Survival, and Swim.
There are alot of equipment options available to a ranger. You can't use Heavy armor. If you didnt know, you take a penalty for wearing any armor your arent proficient with. Technically you can use it, but it will be far worse than using one you are proficient with.
I don't think a Ranger is a good training tool. Its got low tier spells at level 4+, a weakened animal(that you have to spend a feat on to make it equal to your level), and its dependent on fighting certain enemies in certain types of terrain.
There are different kinds of playstyles with the Ranger. There are different possible Fighting Styles to specialize in. You can get Bonus Feats for at level 2,6,10,14,18. Some weapon types such as Archery require alot of feats to function well. Using a Two-handed weapon requires few to do well with.
Quick Draw is basically required for a Ranged/Melee Ranger unless you choose Full Archery. It lets you drop your weapon(free) and draw another one(free) so you can make multiple attacks. Its not a good feat early on, but once you start unlocking multiple attacks from leveling up or feats it is more useful. At level 6+ as one of your bonus feats you can pick Point Blank Master. Its normally a Fighter-only skill, so getting it on the Ranger is useful. It allows you to forgo melee weapons entirely and just shoot as many shots as you are allowed even if an enemy is in clubbing range.
Go Skirmisher archetype. You lose your magic but gain Hunter Tricks... very useful and stick with the Wolf, they are awesome and the Boon Companion feat is worth it. Evolve Companion is also delightful if you don't mind burning another feat to make your wolf more deadly (1d6 Bleed on bite, +2 Nat armor, +8 to a skill, etc).
sling is great to start with. I hate losing my speed so I recommend chain shirt. Falchion is pretty gnarly, I like it, nasty critical range with decent damage with 1.5 STR bonus being two-handed. Downside is you will not be able to hold on to your bow should you need to switch and dropping a 500+ gold composite longbow will hurt if you have to run... (also good with better speed). A good one handed weapon would be a rapier or scimitar (katana, if you have the exotic proficiency can be wielded in one hand) as they have high threat zones as well.
Great. Sounds like QuickDraw is the one for level 1?
Actually Quickdraw really is entirely unnecessary until you get more than one melee attack a round. Before that you can draw a new weapon as or as part OF a move action. A such your not going to really lose anything if you do not have quick draw.
You can move and draw a weapon at the same time and still get your one attack. If your using your bow your not going to be moving so you can rapid shot as needed. Once you need to swith to your melee weapon your only getting one melee attack anyways so using a move action to draw a weapon is no big deal if you've already been engaged and a total non deal if your moving to engage someone else.
Once you get more than one melee attack a round quick draw becomes far more useful both in switching weapons or in throwing more than one thrown weapon a round.
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Again, thanks to everybody. I'm getting my head around the Guide archetype, esp. If I go with dungeon (or is it underground?) favored terrain (I'm just concerned that, given I've never played before and don't know what adventures I'm going on, I don't want so much riding on my terrain.)
That said, I'm really liking the look of the skirmisher.
A question about swapping ranged for melee weapon. What if I was using one handed range weapons (axe/hammer/chakram)...could I hold my falchion (or maybe a long sword) in my off hand and then switch when it's been released? It sounds like dropping a 500 gp Composite Bow is a bad idea. How do switch-hitters address that?
You could.
Also, you could combine styles, for example, using a spear, a harpoon or a trident and then getting the Martial Focus + Ricochet Toss feats. That would allow you (by level 9, which is late, but not that bad), to use a single weapon that you can toss or attack with and would automatically fly back to you every time you chucked it.
I'm a big fan of combining a thrown weapon with a shield. For example, javelins and a heavy shield. With studded leather at first level, chain shirt once you can afford it. Just keep a REAL melee weapon as a back-up, like a sword/axe/hammer, and if you need to, you can always drop the shield and wield it 2-handed, which is particularly nice once you have Power Attack.
"Yous is me?"
Some switch hitters never drop their bow by allowing themselves to launch arrows for the one or two rounds, then, as the enemy closes in, holds their bow in their off-hand while wielding a one-handed weapon. This can be augmented late game with a glove of storing (shrinks and restores an item in one hand as a free action).
The real issue with using thrown weapons is that at later levels, it can be costly to keep up with the bow in terms of enchantment: one of the better options that way is to wear a blink-back belt, and use quickdraw to draw a thrown weapon from your belt. However, this often means, unless you get your GM to approve combining your blinkback belt with a belt that grants bonuses to strength, dexterity, and/or constitution, you'll have to do without these bonuses.
Further, bows allow you to have enchanted arrows for specific tasks, so you can keep a half dozen +1 Dragon Bane arrows at 6/50s the price of the price to get a +1 Dragon Bane chakram.
Given that, if you believe it will be beneficial or more flavorful to use thrown weapons, then go for it.
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Hmmm...so in the long run, if I want a bow, one handed weapons would be my friend. (I like the idea of having a quiver of problem solving). If I want thrown, the ricochet feat or the blink-back belt is my friend.
I saw somewhere that Archery is more buffed out than throwing weapons in pathfinder. I imagine I'm leaning in that direction?
You can start with cheaper equipment at 1st level and upgrade it at higher levels. Like sling at level 1, a short bow at level 2, and composite longbow at level 3. Or sooner, depending on how much gold you get.
You should be able to loot a shortbow pretty early on. Just save your gold for that masterwork composite bow. Bow + One handed Weapon > Thrown Weapon. Yeah the 2 can have the same damage. The bow style provides a lot more versatility for significantly less money. Also it requires much less optimization for the same result
"Yous and mes goes and kills good?"
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Check out the PFS link, upper left hand on the site, it'll give you all the tools you need to build a PFS-legal character. Race, class, equipment, materials, etc. Your hobgoblin ranger sounds very cool, though!
Don't worry as much about favored terrain as favored enemy. Humanoid (human) is a great one to take, as you'll face many foes that are humans. Undead, animal, and monstrous humanoid are also good choices depending on how you play your character.
I like playing rangers but don't often choose the companion, as already mentioned it's a little more than I prefer to spend to keep them alive and relevant, but they can be a fun addition to the game (the flanking is great at lower levels.)
Both Guide and Skirmisher are legal.
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Thanks Kajar. I looked all over the Pathfinder Society resources. I couldn't find a simple list of allowed classes and archetypes. I appreciate you cutting to the chase for me.
What do you folks think about slayer as an alternate? Would that allow me to focus on Strength/Dex/Con? Or is there another stat needed for that one. I'm concerned about MAD.
Slayers are like spell-less, companion-less rangers. A really solid class.
You probably don't want to dump Wisdom because it's useful for Will saving throws and lots of good skills, like Perception and Survival.